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This 279 message thread spans 10 pages: < < 279 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 > >     
The Google Update Schedule Thoughts
Gleaned from datacenter updates

 3:02 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey all:

This is a recap and a prediction topic.

Recall that GG said that the -sj index would move to the other datacenters, then we would see backlinks/spam filters applied across the board.

If this is the case, and if the d.c. datacenter (-dc) just got the -sj index (I saw it bouncing around last night actually); and the cable & wireless (-cw) datacenter got the index on the 15th. *Then* it seems we have 2 days for the index to be propagated to each datacenter (this is a worst-case scenario, as the datacenters may be updated in parallel and may all pop up with the -sj index very shortly).

Since we have 5 datacenters left to go, that brings us 10 days in the future for all datacenters to given the -sj index...which brings us to the 27th. At this time we should see the backlinks/spam filters being applied at every datacenter as deltas/patches (if you will) and the real "dance" will be underway. It will, of course, take considerably less time.

Notice that the prediction of the 27th is, in my opinion, a worst-case scenario; we will most likely see things happen sooner.




 5:23 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy, that was a truely useful post and much appreciated.

Why we have you in such a "free spirit" mood can you please tell us if the monthly (5 weekly...whatever) updates are a thing of the past?

Is this going to be a liquid index of constant change from now on? A simple yes or no will save a zillion threads in the future, and a lot of all of our time :)


 5:24 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

you know it wackmaster, wouldnt miss it!


 5:26 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

GG said

"3) once new data is into the system, begin pulling in new algorithms that have been waiting in the wings "

what kind of algo's are these. i mean when you have a clean new update based on a new algo...and all the spam filters are applied, what else are we left with?
I know there is a lot of stuff to consider with such a huge search engine, so i would assume it could be little bits and pieces (bugs i assume) in the new algo which will be clarified as step 3....and i hope this happens during every monthly update...correct?

another question:
i am not saying that the -sj results are bad or anything but i would like to know that why is that that -sj results which are not fully operational(spam filter havent being applied, contains old cache, old sites) are being brought live into the real world?..is it coz there is no other alternate to test the new algo?


 5:26 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks for bringing some clarity GG. This is big news you dropped tonight. I'm still not 100% sure if I read right since this thread is so darned long.

But in essence, it may be another week or even more until all the data centers have the index. Then it could take a full month until the backlinks, which by extension means new PR, gets added. And then you'll have some cool new stuff for us.

So this update, which if I get it right, may be the last one, will take quite awhile and these Dominic threads will kill us heh heh.

Apologies if I misunderstood anything. But no matter what you helped clear up a lot to get the expectations in order. Basically, wait a month.

UPDATED to add, wow lots of people post at the same time, especially after GG posts.


 5:28 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

RFGX, Stefan, I am with you guys.. this is after a quick scan but I would think PR is way important now.. looks like its importance had not been so great in recent months and now it is way important. I dont understand either.. google seems to of picked up the top pages but not showing the deeper level pages... what the hecks going on? Been procrastinating on investigating this but their is a big change going on, no doubt.

<edit> I take back that PR comment, alot of sites are number one with no PR.. I dont get it. </edit>


 5:31 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would expect step two to occur over roughly the same timeframe as a typical index cycle

Thanks GG. So I can read this as saying that the results we are now starting to see will most likly be in place for a normal cycle?


 5:37 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks, Helpmebe1, but you might not want to be associated with me... I'm the one who called webmasters obsessing with Google's desires a bunch of dancing monkeys, wearing little hats and begging for spare change.

And my last post in this thread, promise, I don't see how Google is so wonderful anyway.. Ink results are fresher and more pertinent for the searches I try as a user.


 5:46 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Stefan, I'd consider putting on a little hat and dancing to organ grinder music if it would help my site do well in Google again. Unfortunately, I don't think this will work. :(


 6:19 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

(thus the "more than weeks, less than months" comment)

GoogleGuy, when you made that comment it was "more than DAYS, less than weeks". This is just a typo right? Please say yes. :)

The rest are for anyone.
If a site was doing great on all the new datacenters and then took a dive late last night, would that be considered the effects of one of the new filters rolling in?

Would a site that has added a lot of new links more likely be adversely affected by the craziness than one that has not added new links or changed its linking structure in awhile?

What stock should i invest in to get the best return over the next three years?:) (Don't say Google, that basket is already full)


 6:59 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Really RFGDXM1, chill out. You are starting to affect my sanity.


 7:07 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

You are fortunate SlyOldDog that you still have sanity. Google has already driven many webmasters bonkers. ;)


 7:40 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sorry to hear that. I had a look at your site and it has only 40 backlinks. I know that some are not showing up due to this strange update but perhaps that may be part of the problem. Perhaps some of the links you have have been discounted in the new algorithm.


 8:19 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well Google Guy I'll send you one about #24, but I must say that it is a wee bit discouraging to have mentioned some things previously and to see what happens next is that those sites rise like a phoenix while my own site gets its anchor text and linking ignored.

If I was one of these paranoid dudes I'd conclude that the quickest way to get penalized is to:
1) say nice things about Google
2) report blatant spam as I'm told too
3) have squeaky clean site
4) buy adwords

[edited by: steveb at 9:01 am (utc) on May 19, 2003]


 8:30 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Looks like -ab and -zu data centers now have the updated results.


 8:48 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

The footer on Goggles’ search page can be read several ways and doesn’t necessarily mean that all of what is claimed is actually available at the time of any search.

Google - Searching 3,083,324,652 web pages

But how correct is this in the strict context of the new indexes now present on 7 of the nine data centers? A lot of comment here suggests that much of what was/is present in the about to disappear index is currently absent on the new.

When the rollover is complete and before the new data is added can we expect the published number of 3,083,324,652 web pages to be revised downwards?


 8:52 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Looks like -ab and -zu data centers now have the updated results.

Oh goody!:(

-in, -ex, remember, Just Say No to Dregs

In an unprecedented move the -in index has decided to fight back, launching a DNS attack against the EVIL -sj index. Al the Smear network reports that over 800 servers were lost in the attack. It was a gory scene. "There was feathers and penguin blood everywhere" muttered a google employee, as he nervously poked at his m & m's. As if to emphasize the fact, a large penguin blood covered plastic ball rolled quietly through the frame.
And then things were right again. Backlinks flowed from the skies and surfers suddenly grew intimately fond of #5 and below.</;)>

SteveB, I haven't bought adwords but other than that...

Hopefully, things will be good again soon.


 9:39 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Googleguy: If people have constructive comments for this index, I gave a method back in msg #24 of giving us specific searches or types of searches that you consider good or bad. I just checked, and I don't mind telling you that so far it's a single digit number of reports.

That's because nobody is quite sure which index is looking like the "final version" - is it going to be like CW, SJ, FI? WWW flicks between so many of the datacentres the results change all the time... On some my site has stayed put, on others it's climbed places, on others it's dropped completely off the face of the planet...

I'm sure you will get lots of reports once people know and the bloomin' thing settles! ;)

Tropical Island

 11:11 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

We talk about the bad search results on Google and while this may be temporarily true what are we comparing against - the competition?

I just did my monthly review on our principal keywords in AltaVista and AllTheWeb. These serps are full of spam, duplicate sites and just plain poor results. They obviously have very poor algos to weed out the junk.

With Google we at least have a constantly updated search engine with many of the worst cases of Spam eliminated. Sure things right now are not perfect for everyone - they never will be. But in the end, when all of this straightens itself out, Google will still be the #1 search engine with the best results - IMHO.


 11:30 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmmm and now for only the third and fourth days this year, I didn't have freshbot visits Saturday and Sunday.


 12:06 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Anyone else getting errors from -zu?

I'm getting returned results that say they took .13 seconds, but I don't see them for at least 10-15 seconds, and often get errors.



 12:20 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Heya GG:

I take it we won't be seeing Deep for the next little while?



 12:30 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I like new SPAM filter,
Its very funny :D
[uk.yahoo.com...] penalized, new pr=0 :D:D:D


 12:44 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

<http://uk.yahoo.com penalized, new pr=0 :D:D:D>

That's what happens when you dump Google and deploy Inktomi ;-)


 1:24 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think the plan will be
1) deploy the new index/system across all data centers
2) begin pulling in more data (i.e. newer backlinks, pages, and spam updates)
3) once new data is into the system, begin pulling in new algorithms that have been waiting in the wings
I believe the current status is that we're around step 1.5 or thereabouts; something like 7 or so data centers have the new index/system. I expect the current pace of switching data centers to continue about as it has been. I would expect step two to occur over roughly the same timeframe as a typical index cycle (thus the "more than weeks, less than months" comment). Step 3 is longer-term and ongoing, but I'm really excited about what we'll be able to do to improve quality across the board.

I must be the dumbest one in here...OK, it's helpful that we now *know* that this will go on for another month.

And certainly, Google has enough credibility that if GG says the SERP's will be better than ever, soon, then that is reassuring to a point.

In the meantime however, as many Webmasters appear to be twisting in the wind (how's it going today, rfgdxm1?), I'm still left wondering at what appear to be basic inconsistencies:

>> GG keeps saying in effect "be patient, be patient" things will soon be great...But then at other times, implies that Google is already happy with -fi etc results as is.

>> Many of us are waiting to file SPAM reports because GG says everything will change, but then GG wonders why few are filing reports yet.

So which is it? Does Google think the SERP's in -fi etc. are of a high quality? Or, does Google think they are a work in progress *that needs a lot of work.* Or, are they a *quality work in progress* that still needs some work. Or...?


 1:29 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>I would expect step two to occur over roughly the same timeframe as a typical index cycle<<

Unless I am misunderstanding this, it looks like we will be seeing the new index for about a month before any data from the past 2 months is included?

The typical index cycle is about 4 weeks. I wonder if they will scrap the data from the April crawl and just do another deep and use that for July?

Really bad news if this is the case.


 2:00 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

If that is indeed the case then there's a point to be made on the "Google screwed up" side for sure.

Point: If Google was not going to use the April crawl data then why crawl at all? Unless something unforeseen happened *after* the April crawl that caused the -sj stuff to start.

I'm not sure I believe this is what happened though. I think we'll see the April crawl folded into the index over time (hopefully not too much time as my site is completely gone from the current index :), then we'll see Deep back after/during this time period.



 2:25 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am now seeing some crazy new results (drastically different) on www that previously were not showing on any of the data centers..



 2:38 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)


While Google is in the process of spending "more than weeks, less than months... to improve quality across the board," I would appreciate your sending me an "Excuse Letter" that I can send to all my clients, stating in part:

(1) NetGuy really isn't as stupid as he may now seem. There have been some major changes at Google that he has no control over;

(2) Don't blame him for keeping your websites clean, while all your competitors maintain the top 3 positions using hidden text, link farms, and invisible image maps. His methods will pay off in the "long run."

(3) Don't blame him for not receiving a response on any spam reports, since we are working hard to get a new spam algo introduced in the "next index cycle."

Although this won't make all my clients happy, it would be a start.... In the mean time, I guess we'll just double up on the AdWords.


SPAM - Sites Positioned Above Mine


 4:09 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)


From what GG says, it looks like this is the new index for this month as it sits. It looks as if this index was rolled out using older back link data for whatever reason.

What you see now is going to be your spots for a couple weeks at least, probably longer.

Bringing in back links and newer data over weeks just takes us into a new index time frame anyway and they will probably just use the data from the next deep crawl instead of the data from the last two.

Why did they throw out the last two months deep crawl data, who knows!

If you’re waiting for back links to be brought in over a few days you might as well give up waiting. GG said it will be weeks.

So if your bosses or clients are complaining just tell them there is not a lot you can do about it other than to keep working on your site and move forward.

If this is wrong, then GG feel free to correct my summary of this months dance.

So, make sure your sites are up when the deepbot comes knocking!


 4:15 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)


I agree that it seems odd that they would not use the April crawl data. However, it wouldn't make much sense to use the April crawl for the new June index either.

Either way this is a pretty lousy deal. Most likely, we will see February data used for scoring June results pretty soon :(


 4:37 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

i love it.

results on www. are variously #1 with an old SERP, #1 with a fresh SERP, than on page 5..., variously during the day.

none of which match the result on the same search for -sj, and -fi. which goes to show at least how little we know know about what is going on with Google right now. if others have understanding of this, more power to you.

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