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The Google Update Schedule Thoughts
Gleaned from datacenter updates
Critter




msg:218271
 3:02 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey all:

This is a recap and a prediction topic.

Recall that GG said that the -sj index would move to the other datacenters, then we would see backlinks/spam filters applied across the board.

If this is the case, and if the d.c. datacenter (-dc) just got the -sj index (I saw it bouncing around last night actually); and the cable & wireless (-cw) datacenter got the index on the 15th. *Then* it seems we have 2 days for the index to be propagated to each datacenter (this is a worst-case scenario, as the datacenters may be updated in parallel and may all pop up with the -sj index very shortly).

Since we have 5 datacenters left to go, that brings us 10 days in the future for all datacenters to given the -sj index...which brings us to the 27th. At this time we should see the backlinks/spam filters being applied at every datacenter as deltas/patches (if you will) and the real "dance" will be underway. It will, of course, take considerably less time.

Notice that the prediction of the 27th is, in my opinion, a worst-case scenario; we will most likely see things happen sooner.

Peter

 

merlin30




msg:218421
 11:27 pm on May 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Darkroom,

When you hit a data centre, you will then hit a particular server in that data centre. There are likely hundreds, if not thousands of servers in each data centre. To spread the traffic evenly among the servers a load balancing algorithm will be employed. The load balancing algorithm is unlikely to be a random number generator - more likely it will assess the current load of each server and assign work appropriately. That is why I say it isn't strictly random - but it likely appears so.

darkroom




msg:218422
 11:33 pm on May 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

merlin30,
Thanks. I think i get it now.

cindysunc




msg:218423
 11:47 pm on May 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

next message

[edited by: cindysunc at 12:06 am (utc) on May 19, 2003]

rfgdxm1




msg:218424
 11:56 pm on May 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Right now index showing pages i deleted in November.

Based on this, I have to conclude Google is broken. WHY would page from last year be in the database at all? I'd expect after 2 updates all those would be gone.

mrbrad




msg:218425
 11:59 pm on May 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

I see a lot of people here complaining about what a screw up this is.
From who's perspective? The webmaster who lost their precious little site? .. or the Joe Blow surfer that Google is here for?
Has anyone asked Joe Blow surfer if he/she has noticed an improvement or degradation in Google's service?

My father-in-law who isnt a webmaster and uses Google as an unbiased Joe Blow surfer found a lottery site this morning to check his tickets without a problem. He didnt say ... "man, Google is sucking lately ... whats up with this?!"

Stop whining about your site and take a look at Google from an anbiased standpoint ... search for something other than your website and really ask yourself "did I find a relevant site quickly?".

The only place I hear whining about Google is here. It hasnt made headline news or any other unbiased web surfer community.

I know we all love our site here ... But just because your site doesnt show up doesnt mean the results are junk.

cindysunc




msg:218426
 12:01 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I edited my post because it was someone else who said they have pages they deleted in November in the index, i never delete pages :) But right now i have pages missing that were there last month.

cindysunc




msg:218427
 12:04 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

mrbrad
its not whining about my site, my site in in there. Basically this update or whatever you call it needs to actually happen. Usually this took 4-5 days and it was over. Why so long this time? Why put it to the partners and the main Google when not done yet? Do whatever testing you need to do out of public view, then when you got it where you like it then move it over to yahoo, aol, and the main. Don't move it over until its done. I love Google, i thinks its the best SE out there for both webmasters and users, but his doesn't make sense the way its being done. But i'm still a rookie in a forum full of professional SEOS so what do i know.

mrguy




msg:218428
 12:09 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

--The webmaster who lost their precious little site?--

Without the webmaster, Google would not exist.

Why?

Who would build the sites, who would know what to put on the sites to make them show up any where.

I could just imagine what would be showing up on Google if nothing but novices built sites.

Google get's great information from webmasters as to how their algos are doing.

For someone to jump online and tell people to quite whinging about it in my opinion is a little out of line.

In the begining of the dominic thread, I posted something to the same effect only not worded so poorly and was gently reminded by a mod that is not polite to post in that fashion.

If you don't have something informative to say that adds to the discussion, then don't say it because next month it could by you whining about your "precious little site'.

steve128




msg:218429
 12:16 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Me too, re. screw up,
How else can a site/page show "news ...last updated 4th Nov.2002"

BTW in the title tag!

The page shows number #1 for that exact search query, as you you would expect.

But it also shows for"...news.." page 1

The page went missing last update, also expected, but now back

Half the page is new stuff, not PR not anchor text the problem.

It is old data mixed in with some new stuff, pure and simple
A bigtime screw up

thereuare




msg:218430
 12:18 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would argue that www2, www3, -sj, -va, -dc, -ab, etc ARE taking place out of public view.

How much of the public actually knows about the above Google variations? I would venture a guess that 99.5% of Google users aren't aware of any of the above, or even what a Google dance is.

Although this is the first dance i've witnessed and i've gained a lot of insight from reading this site, it seems to me that most of the complaining is from those that optomized their site for Google.

Perhaps Google doesn't want a bunch of websites optomized to appear when certain keywords are presented.... they're rather have websites with content that appear as they should without the effect of optimization. Maybe Google is going back to grass roots content and giving less weight to optimization techniques.

If two competing sites are nearly identical in content, should one have a better position than the other because they include a certain keyword in their alt tag?!? I'm sure some webmasters here will say 'yes', but most end user would probably say "who cares", i want the one with slightly better content.

And although i understand that a lot of the ultimate results will resemble some of the current datacenters, it's far from over, as we've been told countless times that certain spam filters have not been put into place yet.

Go ahead and be nervous if you think that helps, but don't call this a "done deal" until it's actually complete.

[edited by: thereuare at 12:20 am (utc) on May 19, 2003]

steve128




msg:218431
 12:19 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

>The only place I hear whining about Google is here. It hasnt made headline news or any other unbiased web surfer community>

Mm joe bloggs knows nothing, but it is only a matter of time, believe me...You sound like Mr AV just before the ship sank

jojojo




msg:218432
 12:19 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm just so damn tired of coming to WW lately and not seeing anything about the update - just pages and pages of gibberish. Nobody knows exactly what they are talking about. 75% is speculation. Information we get from GG is nothing short of maddening.

Google is dead. News at 8. Funeral on Monday.

*smash* *tinkle* *jumps out of the window*

Gooogllaaaaablaahhhhhpszzzzztttt....

Google machine consumes another mind.

Staza




msg:218433
 12:33 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

"Information we get from GG is nothing short of maddening."

JoJo - I could not agree more... GoogleGuy has not done anything but confused us all. A bit earlier, i posted a few simple questions to GG asking him whether he really KNEW what was going on at Google, and if he DID, than was he even ALLOWED to share it with us?

That post was censored for some reason and I got a message telling me that its against the TOS here at WWorld, but i wasnt told why. (I reread the TOS and could not find any reference so if anyone can clarify - please do - i see many people asking GoogleGuy questions all the time.)

If GoogleGuy really knows whats going on, i just dont understand why he doesnt just tell us whats going on and clear up all this confusion once and for all?

1 - When will the REAL update begin (approx)
2 - Will all the backlinks eventually be added back?
3 - In the future, will there be a periodic update as in the past, or some sort of ongoing, continual update sa some have theorized is going to happen from now on?

These are the questions everyone here seems to be wondering in case GG REALLY wants to answer them.

steve128




msg:218434
 12:40 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nope 100% is speculation, but we can only talk about what we see. Google is a big ship, it will not sink overnight.

So all the "surfers" "who see no difference" in the serps do not know the water is creeping up rapidly.

But when it gets knee high they will jump, bigtime.

I am not complaining, no dramitic changes, but now I have to compete not only with PR5 but PR0/spammers none-relevant etc
Some of my "real" competitors have gone, all had good sites, now wiped out page 4 and beyond.
I am not so naive to think I am better than them, perhaps lucky yes.

No problem...tell me about it, what happens next time?

Stefan




msg:218435
 12:43 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

BTW, I haven't seen anyone disagree with you that Google is too large. I think we would all love it if the other companies would get their act together and provide reasonable competition.

Right again, BigDave. Very true.

Stefan, there was a lot of work at Google behind these changes. We're trying the make the transition as gentle as possible, but there's still a lot of work left to do.

GG, you're a good guy, you're very helpful and much more patient than most of us could be. Believe me, I did fine in SJ... but what if I'm the next to disappear for no good reason?

I'm taking off the little monkey hat, refusing to beg for spare change, and I'm going to keep at working to make my site better, (for users and 'cause it's the thing to do). If Google continues to like it, so much the better. If not, it's Google's loss.

steve128




msg:218436
 12:46 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

thereuare
If I could I would post 20/30 keywords that bare no resemblance to the search query, and that is just from my line.

I have to assume many are seeing the same in their particular line of business

Anon27




msg:218437
 12:58 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

thereuare
If I could I would post 20/30 keywords that bare no resemblance to the search query, and that is just from my line.
I have to assume many are seeing the same in their particular line of business

I agree 100%.

This is so odd, I can not believe it.

What is going on? Has GG spoken?

crobb305




msg:218438
 1:11 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I see the same irrelevancy in searches. I am not speaking about my own keyword rankings, because they seem to be unchanged. But I am curious about why Google is so anxious to get this particular index out when it isn't ready (i.e., they will add backlinks "gradually" and "over time").

[edited by: crobb305 at 1:17 am (utc) on May 19, 2003]

deanril




msg:218439
 1:16 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

The Relevance King is no longer relevant.

And we all get, stop your whining......

What on earth can they be doing? that will make it all that much better? Nothing I say. I think its broken.

jojojo




msg:218440
 1:25 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

"What on earth can they be doing? that will make it all that much better? Nothing I say. I think its broken. "

No doubt! Add the shtuff and lets get on with it!

You act like there is a lot of data to import *sheesh*

deft_spyder




msg:218441
 1:35 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

googleguy has spoken so many times and clarified this so many times that i wouldnt be suprised if he didnt want to address it -again-.

theres nothing bad going on... take off your paranoid hats everyone.

annej




msg:218442
 1:43 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

google Guy said this back in message 109

there was a lot of work at Google behind these changes. We're trying the make the transition as gentle as possible, but there's still a lot of work left to do.

He's made other comments here and there in this thread.

I think it makes sense to go off and work on our sites for a while.

Kirby




msg:218443
 1:52 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Back to the new index showing on many of the servers. The results Im seeing on 6 of 9 are -fi. I thought GG said that we would see -sj move to the other datacenters first.

Did GG change this in a post I missed?

annej




msg:218444
 1:56 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

It seems to me he later said that both fi and sj would blend. I'm not saying this well. But they will both be involved somehow.

rfgdxm1




msg:218445
 1:56 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

>theres nothing bad going on... take off your paranoid hats everyone.

As if he would admit it if Google screwed up?

Stefan




msg:218446
 1:57 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think it makes sense to go off and work on our sites for a while.

Yep. If Google likes it, cool. If not, the other SE's will find the stuff and add it. Either way the site gets improved. I've got a lot of new material to type up... maybe Google will have its act together by the time it's all done.

I'd like to say... people shouldn't launch personal attacks at GG; he's a cool guy, it's just the organization behind him that's dodgy.

steveb




msg:218447
 2:05 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

The most maddening posts on this forum are the ones that pointlessly kill electrons telling people that Google and search engines aren't everything, to work on sites, blah blah blah. Hello, people do that. But Google delivers an enormous amount of people to websites. It is completely irrelevant if that is 4% of your visitors or 94%. What matters is getting one more is good, getting one less is not good. This is a Google forum. If you want to talk about needlepoint I think that is Forum 37.

Most posts here are not fixated only on people's own sites. Nobody else gives a crap about your site. Most people here are trying to understand a major Internet-wide phenomenon affecting millions of searches for millions of sites. We each understand our own niches the best, and can relay observations about what we see.

The fact that this phenomenon is bizarrely being played out in the public eye is a rare opportunity for peek where we usually don't see, and while speculation is more likely to be inaccurate than usual, this is the best time to speculate.

For example, if Google does magically apply guestbook spam filters one of these weeks/months/decades, having observed where guestbook-dependant sites rank now compared to then might be an incredibly valuable bit of information. Same with free for all links, anchor text, etc.

deanril




msg:218448
 2:36 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

For example, if Google does magically apply guestbook spam filters one of these weeks/months/decades, having observed where guestbook-dependant sites rank now compared to then might be an incredibly valuable bit of information. Same with free for all links, anchor text, etc.

I like this but differently. I wish we could take a snapshot of the serps from 2 months ago, then when this crazy thing is over see if they look the same.

Im betting the farm, they will......

rfgdxm1




msg:218449
 2:48 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

>The most maddening posts on this forum are the ones that pointlessly kill electrons telling people that Google and search engines aren't everything, to work on sites, blah blah blah...This is a Google forum. If you want to talk about needlepoint I think that is Forum 37.

ROFL. ;) Excellent point. Only reason to be reading here is if you are concerned about Google. If developing good content for your site is the priority, this ain't where to discuss that.

BigDave




msg:218450
 3:40 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

One additional tidbit for those of you discussing google DNS and the different datacenters.

Google does not always have to have www going to all 9 datacenters. I would suspect that www-sj was not in the rotation till a while after www2 and www3 were pointed at it. In fact I do not remember anyone saying they were seeing the results on www till after -fi had changed over.

Even with 7 of 9 datacenters on the new index, we have no way of knowing what the division is. They can balance the load any way that they want. They could try to keep the two datacenters with the old index 100% loaded before sending someone to the others, or they might be trying to keep them unloaded while they are transfering the new index in to them.

GoogleGuy




msg:218451
 3:40 am on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

"As if he would admit it if Google screwed up?"

Ahem. :) rfgdxm1, I've been more than willing to own up when there's an issue or glitch at our end. See for example
[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...]
[webmasterworld.com...]

This is just my take, but I don't think it helps anybody to have folks call other people dancing monkeys, or post claiming "BŁ*LLSH!T" in all caps, or virtually jump out of windows. If people have constructive comments for this index, I gave a method back in msg #24 of giving us specific searches or types of searches that you consider good or bad. I just checked, and I don't mind telling you that so far it's a single digit number of reports. I'm guessing that number will go up at least some after this reminder post :) but if you have specific searches or suggestions to pass on, that's probably the best way to get them to us.

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