| 2:14 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think this is the wrong forum for IPO topics but I doubt that the typical investor will understand the current state of play or care, as long as Google is the #1 engine.
What's the global population of SEOs? 5000? SEOs that are serious investors - 5?
Once we see some evidence of Microsoft's search engine, then we can expect some investor concern.
| 2:15 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Makes no difference AFAICT.
Its already been established that there will be no IPO in the near future, so what might impact us significantly (in the short term) as webmasters has little effect on the long-term valuation of the company.
The delayed update is clearly a side effect of an attempt to deliver a better user experience. That seems to be google's primary business strategy, along with their advertising efforts. If they succeed in these goals and continue to dominate the market, it would seem to bode well for the value of the company.
I can't see Yahoo moving to Inktomi results until they can compete better with google.
| 2:30 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I predict the content of this thread becoming exhibit "widget 1056ae" in a future due diligences deposition.
| 2:34 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I guess the first two post are voting for Google...
And you are voting for the lawyers!
And this is "Google News" is it not?
| 2:40 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
The update schedule or the results of the update don't matter one little bit to investors or the average end user.
They just go to google and type in some words and select a result. If they do not get good results, they try a new set of words. All they are looking for is a site that is good enough.
| 2:46 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I wonder what the world population of SEOs is..
| 2:46 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
So Google is unbeatalbe?
Most IPOs are not bought by the litte guy, they are purchased large players...
If a company is having problems with their technology some will say it's due to improvements and some just call it problems.
This is the third late update...
And this one is very late!
I'm thinking about betting on the "Big Money".
| 2:51 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Yes we are a small group but...
Glad you are joining in!
| 3:02 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
going public may make some people at Google very rich. It will also make some of them very unhappy.
| 3:03 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
The only ones worth considering are members of WW. So asking Brett the active members number should answer yr question GG.
| 3:07 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
So Google is unbeatalbe?
Huh? How did you get that from my post?
It's google's game to lose, they just aren't losing it. You have to stop looking at *your* website and start searching on things that real people search on.
Search on an author and try to find a list of all their books. Try and find a local beach. Search on something for your garden. If you can't find what you want on your first attempt, do what everyone else does, try another search.
Once you find the info, are you satisfied? The average searcher is. They don't need 10 our of 10 perfectly relevant searches, nor do they need the absolute most relevant site as #1.
What you as a webmaster wants has nothing to do with what the searcher sees.
|Most IPOs are not bought by the litte guy, they are purchased large players... |
How many disgruntled webmasters are on that IPO list?
It doesn't matter right now anyway, the IPO is not happening this year.
|If a company is having problems with their technology some will say it's due to improvements and some just call it problems. |
what published goals have they failed to meet?
|This is the third late update... |
No there have been no late updates. The updates are not on a schedule.
And this one is very late!
And where is this schedule or at least tell me how many day it has been since the last update and how that compares historically.
|I'm thinking about betting on the "Big Money". |
The big money cares about one thing, google's financial situation. They don't give a rip about whiney webmasters with their 10000 message update thread
| 3:40 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Wall Street looks at averages I agree... but they also look at product delivery. Is it on time?
Google did not get to their position by themselves and if the SEO population was not out there Google might not have much of a product.
When Yahoo hits the market who is the SEO market going to build for and why? I know the answer.
Who is going to win is the problem...
Based on some of these post I am starting to think we little SEO folk don't really matter.
| 3:59 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
"I wonder what the world population of SEOs is..
Further questions are:
1) If google indexes sites better, the less demand for seo?
2) If google indexes sites better, the popularity of the internet increases so companies wake up to seo and more seo work is commissioned?
My guess is every webdesigner and his dog claims seo ability, but few are really successful. All they do is enough to let the spider in, not effect subsequent ranking very much. Most of the good ones are at ww so Clark is probably correct!
My guess 30000 good seo's, 30 million think they are!
| 3:59 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>They just go to google and type in some words and select a result. If they do not get good results, they try a new set of words. All they are looking for is a site that is good enough.
Or, they will just start using another search engine. There isn't a whole lot of brand loyalty to search engines. If there was, Altavista would still be #1. However, I don't think Google has much to worry about with this delay. Google's index is still more current than a lot of search engines, and none of the competition is that more up to date. If I were running Google, I'd think updates every 6 weeks was fine so long as the SERPs that were produced were high quality. I'd worry much more about the search quality aspect than update frequency. This update isn't over yet, but at the moment it does look to me like Google is definitely going down in quality. Not enough to be alarming at this point. However, if this trend continues...
| 4:06 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
"My guess 30000 good seo's, 30 million think they are!" LOL... You have a great point!
"Not enough to be alarming at this point. However, if this trend continues..."
I agree and so far you both have said it better than I.
| 4:20 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Oh yeah, it can get bad enough so that they lose users. There is no question about that.
It's just that we are no where near that point yet.
If you are going to bring up AV, you have to consider all the factors that led to their demise, not the least of which was google already waiting in the wings.
AV has slow loading, advertising laden, sold out SERPs. Google really was the anti-AV.
We are now 34 days since the beginning of the last dance. Even if you were to get real picky about googles update about every 4 weeks line, we are less than one week past the 4 week point for the *start* of the dance. This is obviously a special case update, and things are working a bit differently. With the IPO at least 8 months away, this update will have no effect on the IPO unless the quality goes below the minimum acceptable to the users.
| 4:25 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>late updates or slow roll out of Google's new index<<
No such thing as a late update or a slow roll- out. Its just that over a relatively short period of time people like us have become used to roughly monthly "more-significant changes", and in the last 6 months or so freshbot changes as well.
Even if some brave (or foolish) soul would announce that the "update" starts r finishes today or in the next few days, there have been longer periods between what we called "monthly updates" before than there has been now.
What we are most likely seeing is the death of the monthly update and the birth of the continual update.
The only thing that Google has said officially AFAIK is that the Google index is updated "approxomately monthly"
That statement was made more than 6, maybe 12 months ago. Of course, since then, users have been seeing much even more frequent changes - due to freshbot - especially in current affairs queries (which are the most frequent queries according to "google glasnost" reports - e.g. SARS, Iraq, Al quaeda, world-cup etc and celebrities like Bitnay Sheres and George Bush), and popular information sites with fast changing contents.
Fact is that "late updates" have no effect at all on the usability, topicality and recency of results in *those queries that matter* of Google results, in fact Google users are seeing more frequent changes now than they have ever seen before.
Consumers happy, consumers revisit, google sells more adwords, licences, google builds its brand further, earnings increase, profits increase, investors line up at the door...
[edited by: chiyo at 4:34 am (utc) on May 17, 2003]
| 4:33 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>If you are going to bring up AV, you have to consider all the factors that led to their demise, not the least of which was google already waiting in the wings.
Google does have ask.com and Alltheweb in the wings out there. And, Yahoo/Inktomi. However, I say that this minor delay in the update at this point is essentially an irrelevant issue. To Joe User, he is no where near noticing it.
| 4:59 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
SEO's are not a big population, but contrary to that, SEO's are responsible to 90% of Google index.
What a concept huh? :)
| 5:08 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|Fact is that "late updates" have no effect at all on the usability, topicality and recency of results in *those queries that matter* of Google results, in fact Google users are seeing more frequent changes now than they have ever seen before. |
Inktomi serps are much fresher, by far, imho. I have no idea what Google is trying to accomplish these days, but for my site Ink finds new pages and lists them much faster. Waiting for Google to add stuff is like watching paint dry.
edit: to address the IPO question... they'd better do it soon if they actually intend to, otherwise the cat will be out of the bag.
[edited by: Stefan at 5:24 am (utc) on May 17, 2003]
| 5:23 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Talking about usabiluty, thought to drop this one here, from theregister.com article.
"Google has its own spam problems: a tiny number of webloggers and list-makers whose mindless hyperlinks degrade the value of its search results, and create the Web equivalent of TV static. "
So yea, Google may not care, but believe this. Every big SE was there before and died. Maybe Google time is right around the corner? Keep ignoring the users, the SEO's, and they will find out.
| 5:27 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Check new thread. -dc just entered the game.
| 5:48 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Luke_SR, do you think that we're ignoring users or SEOs? Just curious.
| 6:02 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
If I may be so bold as to offer an opinion on the user part...
There are new pages on my site that are of great, unique, interest to some users. They can find them through Fast or Ink. This is not surprising as they have been up for two months, since just before a Google deep-crawl, but yet they cannot be found via Google. I don't think that it's a great reach to extrapolate that experience to many other sites and users.
The fact is that there are SE's that are offering more current results than Google. It's unfortunate because Google has been a very good SE and now it seems to be getting bogged down somehow. I'm hoping it's temporary.
| 6:30 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Luke_SR said: SEO's are responsible to 90% of Google index<<
Could you reference the study or your source please, and what you define as "responsible"?
| 6:40 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I would suggest to take a closer look at what users are saying about google, the real value of PR, and their experience with the results google gives.
| 6:53 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Can you advise some source of objective coments on Google by users? The register article does not cut it. That article has already been debunked as poorly researched spin by the great majority of commentators.
| 7:14 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I'm not saying that the index would not be better with your wonderful new pages in it. The question when it comes to *user* satisfaction is whether or not it leads to user dissatisfaction by not having them in there for a couple extra weeks.
Will the user still find information that will satisfy their needs when they search. In the vast majority of cases the answer is yes.
I have over 300 new content pages since the deep crawl for the last update. In my opinion they are the most useful review pages on the web for the items they are reviewing. It's good for everyone to have these pages in the index.
Will the searchers miss these pages not being in the index? Not a bit.
Will they be glad to find them when they finally make it in? Most definitely.
Will my traffic go up when they are in? It certainly will.
I also have a pile of new backlinks. It sure would be nice if they were included. But it still doesn't make a major difference to the surfer that doesn't even know that I have those pages.
While the other engines my be presenting fresher content on your site, they most definitely are not on mine. Alltheweb has less than 10% of my pages with 325 listed. Ink has 509 pages. AV is up to 1714 after being at <52 pages for 9 months.
Google has 2740 in www, and 2530 in www-sj. Freshbot hits about 200 of my pages on a regular basis, and only a few of them are my content pages.
Google is the only spider that gets all my pages every month. 2740 is from the beginning of march. 2530 is from the beginning of february, and I am at about 3200 right now. I would love for google to keep up, but they are way ahead of everyone else even with the February results.
The searchers just don't miss the pages that aren't there in most cases. We miss our pages that aren't there, but that is a totally different story.
| 8:05 am on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Well if Google is as smart as I give Google credit for, then they see the big picture and care deeply how us webmasters/SEOs think, act and whine. I would guesstimate that SEOs have a large influence on updates to formula's google use's, seeing as how we build the webpages to exploit their formula's in exchange for high traffic/sales/money. Looking at the big picture does this months semi large thread on the late update represent a boolen true or false in googles recent changes/updates checklist? Does our whining help us or hurt us?
I dont know or care. I just focus on creating relevent pages, with relevent words, and relevent links, for relevent information. Hell, if google does die I would like to have happy return visitors.
Updates come and go, alot. It is a very very slow process! Be Patient. If you can't be patient dont worry about updates, worry about freshbot.
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