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Pros and Cons to a Constant Google Update
what do you think.
needinfo




msg:110034
 3:52 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would be interested to hear everybody elses opinion on a constant update process as apposed to a monthly update, if indeed that is the way it's going.
My views are as follows :

1. Good. for webmasters with new sites because they can be included quicker.

2. Possibly Bad. I think everybody will be constantly tweaking their pages to improve ranking (yes, i know that happens now but my point is what effect does a quicker turnaround for changes have), similar to the type of thing which happens to some sites who have paid to be incuded into Inktomi for example, making the Google database a constant test index virtually.

I suppose my main question would be is point 2 really that much of a concern, can anybody else see an reason for it or against it.

 

littlecloud




msg:110035
 4:07 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

good for users to get new sites or new pages which might fill their needs without waiting a month.

Jesse_Smith




msg:110036
 4:37 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

:::I think everybody will be constantly tweaking their pages to improve ranking

And what is bad about that?!

albert




msg:110037
 4:45 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Bad because we will hang around here all the time ;)

Sarah Atkinson




msg:110038
 4:46 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ok rember back when Segway(just an exsample that I know everyone will regognize) came out. Think what if you were searching for information on it the day after it was released(well the news of it was)? the SE's wouldn't be updated yet. I was just searching for something to day, but it is new this month and I can't find a lot of info aboult it.

We always want the latest and greatest. We live in a world of live tv. (Just look at the coverage of Sept 11 and this war) We want information on demand. FASTER just isn't enough. It makes only since that SE should update more offten.

John_Creed




msg:110039
 4:52 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

The biggest negative will be that spammers will be able to get to the top of the serps much quicker.

But over-all its much better to have quicke updates. Freshbot is good, but it doesnt do enough.

Sarah Atkinson




msg:110040
 5:23 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

The biggest negative will be that spammers will be able to get to the top of the serps much quicker.

What do you mean? Is it just me(maybe I have been under a rock somewhere) But I don't realy notice much SPAM on the web(E-mail is a whole nother story) but as far as SEs go sure there is a lot of listings that are not relivent to my search but that is uauly becasue the words I use have double meaning, and I'm am not specific enough. Maybe I have just been Lucky.

rfgdxm1




msg:110041
 5:27 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Obviously in theory constant updating would be ideal. This would mean maximum freshness. However, getting in the way of this is the need to periodically count PageRank. I don't think that could be done on the fly.

WebGuerrilla




msg:110042
 5:27 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>But I don't realy notice much SPAM on the web

Sarah,

Around here, the word SPAM is often used as a synonym for the word competitor.

mcavic




msg:110043
 5:54 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Around here, the word SPAM is often used as a synonym for the word competitor.

That may be the problem. Actually, I don't see much search engine spam, either. Especially off-topic spam. Admittedly, I do see a lot of competitors, and of course I like my sites better than theirs.

I think a constant update would be very helpful for webmasters and users.

mcavic




msg:110044
 5:56 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

the need to periodically count PageRank. I don't think that could be done on the fly.

I don't know, but I bet it could. It would just have to be done gradually. There might be a month between pages being added and PR reflecting that.

mivox




msg:110045
 5:57 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

PRO: No more gigantic monthly update thread. Not to mention the "I think it might be starting" threads for the week before... ;)

Don't really see any major downside to it.

Jenstar




msg:110046
 6:01 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

PRO: No more gigantic monthly update thread. Not to mention the "I think it might be starting" threads for the week before... ;)

Exactly ;)

The downside for Google is how many more searches they will be doing a day from all the webmasters checking to see how their sites are ranking on all their chosen keywords each day (or multiple times a day!)

Wake up, coffee, WebmasterWorld, Check Google rankings...

erthworm




msg:110047
 6:02 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

i think it's going to mean a lot more clawing and biting to stay ahead of spammers, since the cycle of new inclusions and ranking changes will be almost constant.

Sarah Atkinson




msg:110048
 6:09 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Maybe if they had it once a week

Also

>>>>Around here, the word SPAM is often used as a synonym for the word competitor.

Perhaps that isn't such a good thing to do? It's kind of disrespectfull to them isn't it. I mean I wouldn't want to wrongfully accuse my worse enemy of SPAMING let alone my worse comp. Allthough I will admit I do sometimes complain doggedly aboult them.

rfgdxm1




msg:110049
 6:21 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Around here, the word SPAM is often used as a synonym for the word competitor.

So true. I definite spam as dominating the SERPs with multiple domains, such as one guy having 8 of the top 10 spots. Or by design a site coming up high on an irrelevant SERP, such as a porn site in the top 10 for "travel Europe". However, all to often people here use spam to mean "a site that sells the same thing I do, but has far less content and is of lower quality in my opinion, is beating me out." I see far less spam on commercial SERPs than all the whining by people here suggests. Thus, I suspect that spam as used here often just means competitors doing well.

sem4u




msg:110050
 6:58 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

No spam?

How about hidden text, no script tags filled with keywords and redirects?

As for a rolling update this would be a good idea as sites would become more relevant, e.g. fewer 404 errors, and Google would carry the latest information on trends, products, services, etc.

[edited by: sem4u at 7:15 pm (utc) on May 8, 2003]

djgreg




msg:110051
 7:06 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

rfgdxm1
for me SPAM includes also hidden text, hiden links, be a member of a link farm, or sign 10000 guestbooks with your domain. This gives the SPAM DOmain the chance to get a NR. 1 result through methods which are not fair. The user should be able to expect the BEST site for a keyword on nR. 1 position not the site with the most guestbooks backlinks

Sarah Atkinson




msg:110052
 9:11 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Link farm... ok I'm not fully sure what that is or how to recognize it

is this an exsample?
[edit]
(not sure if i'm allowed to post this, if posting it is violation.. sorry)

Also what do SE's do aboult this? Do they activly pursue this mater or do they just say be honest and don't do it?

[edited by: rcjordan at 1:03 am (utc) on May 9, 2003]
[edit reason] sorry, no specific references to sites. [/edit]

Jesse_Smith




msg:110053
 9:23 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

In search engines SPAM means Stupid Page Above Mine. (Any web site listed before yours.)

:::is this an exsample?

A list of web sites that get an award isn't, but if you find a place where you can add a link and it's added right then, then it's a Link Farm, like FFA pages.

[edited by: Jesse_Smith at 9:26 pm (utc) on May 8, 2003]

Chicago




msg:110054
 9:26 pm on May 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

G's beta answer for a constant update is FRESHBOT.

G has been quite clear that this is where they are going. G has also been quite clear to look for more activity from FRESHBOT in the future.

They want constant, all major engines do (cause fresh means the potential for more timely and relevant info), can it be done well is the question, and Freshbot is the testing ground.

mcavic




msg:110055
 12:16 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Spam is in the eye of the beholder. Hidden text, for example, has valid uses (I wish Google still used the meta keywords).

My site sells widgets. But lots of people misspell it "whigets". I'd never put the word "whigets" on my site, because it's wrong. But I wish I could list it as a keyword so more people would find me.

Chris_D




msg:110056
 12:59 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I bet Brett would like a constant rolling update - think of the hosting bandwidth costs he'll save not having 600 page threads about "the updates started..."

... on the other hand, maybe a constant rolling update would make the traffic constantly ballistic!

:)

rcjordan




msg:110057
 1:07 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

>i think it's going to mean a lot more clawing and biting to stay ahead of spammers

Agreed. Bring it on.

renee




msg:110058
 1:22 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've been hurt by a server that is down during the deep crawl - so site will be in limbo for a month. Continuous update will make the reliability of servers/ISP's less critical.

Freshbot you say? Sure but she drops you after a couple of days!

PatrickDeese




msg:110059
 1:41 am on May 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

What I imagine would be a huge problem with a constant "deepbotting" would be the suddenly viral effects of the development of a new spamming technique.

I would guess that google can measure the success of a new algo by the decrease in spam reports. Once the spam reports exceed a certain threshold, or a certain technique becomes more widespread, they tweak the algo and the counter starts at zero.

If the web is a continuous update, something akin to guestbook spamming could become an "overnight" problem for a site like google.

I imagine that a technique, especially say, a bug exploit could instantly sour the SERPs for weeks while Google attempts to rewrite the algo to compensate.

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