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Giving all the secrets away
miles




msg:141094
 11:38 pm on Apr 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sitting at my desk reading. I find it interesting that if we keep talking about google and letting them know, well some of us, how do get into their index they will change it. So if you know how be vauge and ingeneral. Oppps thats what most posts are anyway. Well just a thought for you to think about.

 

Alcogooglic




msg:141095
 12:18 am on Apr 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sitting on my desk drinking…
Maybe cloaking could help…?
I mean this server could return the actual content of discussions to its members and wonderful season greetings to Goo.

mrguy




msg:141096
 12:30 am on Apr 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Why would Google not want us in the index unless you were getting in in a way that you would not like Google to know about.

jeremy goodrich




msg:141097
 1:36 am on Apr 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sitting at my desk - laughing, as it happens.

Alcogooglic, that was good.

Thing is - there is a 'synergy' between most webmasters & Google. Sure, I love toeing the line as much as the next person, perhaps more so.

In time, Google would figure it out anyway. Besides, 'clever folks' have long since taken anything they deem 'too secret' off the board. But then, somebody will end up posting it here, anyway...so perhaps you keep a secret for a few days / weeks / months, or even some years.

The search engine / optimization industry is too fun - to sit on the side lines, like a miser, hoarding 'gold' when there is more than enough to share...

SlyGuy




msg:141098
 1:40 am on Apr 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

The search engine / optimization industry is too fun - to sit on the side lines, like a miser, hoarding 'gold' when there is more than enough to share...

Well put, Jeremy.

- Chad

miles




msg:141099
 3:57 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sorry I did not reply quicker. I had 2 teeth extracted and was out for a day.

"The search engine / optimization industry is too fun - to sit on the side lines, like a miser, hoarding 'gold' when there is more than enough to share..."

Jeremy Do you really think that most of the guys here are going to share how they are getting into google. I know there are some here who not talking about what they are doing. Even if they are white collar, non aggressive spammers.

I am white collar SEO so it dont make much difference to me if you are spamming. I dont worry about spammers in my area because they are easy to beat with white collar skills.

Mrguy as I said above I am not a spammer. Getting google to index my pages is not difficult.

I am just saying that if you find a way in take it milk it for all its worth and then you can share it.

mrguy




msg:141100
 5:44 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

--I am just saying that if you find a way in take it milk it for all its worth and then you can share it.--

I think most of the veterans already do this anyway.

I try new things (all legal according to Googles TOS) to see what happens and If I see any descent results, I certainly don't run here and tell everybody about it.

shurlee




msg:141101
 7:32 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

The difference between those who discuss techniques and those who don't, is the difference between those who think it's fun and those who think it is their business.

The professional will speak little and read a lot. The other will go to great lengths to share their personal insight regardless of the facts or consequences of their actions. They speak a lot and listen little, not for the purpose of generating additional revenue for their business, rather to hear the sound of their own voice being sooo clever.

The trick is knowing which is which.

Oaf357




msg:141102
 7:36 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

There are plenty of "secrets" and plenty of well knowns. The thing is that there's no real benefit in hoarding the secrets. Someone else will figure them out, eventually.

juniperwasting




msg:141103
 7:57 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have come to an understanding, that by sharing knowledge, others will share with me. I come away from the conversation enriched, with double or triple the ideas and skills, then just the secret(s) I went in with.

jeremy goodrich




msg:141104
 7:58 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

miles, I'm not about to give away any specifics on how / what I do.

There are plenty of great ideas here that I still haven't gotten the chance to use. So, in many ways, it makes no sense to give away the farm, so to speak.

For a some of people, it could be that even the smallest amount of what we consider 'basic optimization' here might take their site to #1 for all their keywords.

And, it could be a very lucrative industry. For others, even the 'advanced' stuff that is discussed here, won't improve them 1 notch on the SERP.

So, different 'stuff' is needed, in different situations.

A post I was reading the other day by martinibuster said that the web is very organic, and in order to get something, first you must give something away.

Hence my continued participation here, even after reading this place for almost 3 years.

If I decided to sit on the sidelines, "hoarding" my info, I might not get any new info in return. More or less, that was the 'gist' of my thoughts above...

DaveN




msg:141105
 8:03 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

when the competition starts using your OLD techniques then you post them and hope google changes the algo ( just joking ;)

DaveN

miles




msg:141106
 8:22 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

DaveN your a riot.

Oaf357




msg:141107
 8:23 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

DaveN,

When your competition is using your old tactics then you're good to go.

Craig_F




msg:141108
 8:35 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

I wouldn't worry about giving away any secrets. In most cases anyone that learns them from you, won't be able to catch up anyway.

Plus, you can tell all the secrets there are, but it's how they are implemented that really matters, and that should differ for everyone.

DaveN




msg:141109
 8:45 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

Craig_f is bang on, the top tip I got 18 months ago was cloak by IP address, well I never did, mainly because I just felt that I would mess it up and get banned within days. what I tend to do is look for the obvious then try to expand on that to give me an edge.

Title tag we all agree they a V.Important so i did a bit of research in dynamically creating Title tags from a product database so that every product had it's own title tag dynamically.

DaveN

taxpod




msg:141110
 8:46 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm sitting at my desk drinking, smoking and losing teeth. I'm sure there are tons of secrets out there but the "common knowledge" is pretty darn valuable anyways. Maybe there are no true secrets being displayed in this forum aside from the drinking problems etc. But anyone who comes along and reads enough will learn a lot. I'm not much of an SEO person but I have learned tons from this place.

rcjordan




msg:141111
 8:59 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Maybe there are no true secrets being displayed

Oh, there are some good ones. In fact, there was a huge exploit ....uh, nevermind. Personally, I do think that most of the sustainable exploits now take a fair amount of firepower to develop and maintain. They often independently developed aren't discussed in forums (here or elsewhere).

icarus




msg:141112
 9:02 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ok, I'm seeing a pattern here.

I had a molar extracted 2 days ago. Is there some connection between WebmasterWorld and dental issues? I must admit, since discovering WebmasterWorld some time ago, the time I have for trivial issues such as eating, sleeping, basic hygeine, family has decreased somewhat :)

The old secrets are great, even if they no longer work, as they assist with thinking outside the square and dispel any "I have a new trick that I will now spend the next month implementing and aren't I so clever" lines of thought.

Time saved + strategies learned - time spent reading - dental and therapy bills = more effective site.

It's all good..

WebGuerrilla




msg:141113
 9:07 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

I do think that most of the sustainable exploits now take a fair amount of firepower to develop and maintain.

Oh how true. You can always spot the guy making the most money from search engines. He's always the one who never seems to have anything to say....

taxpod




msg:141114
 9:07 pm on May 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

icarus,

If this keeps up, you'll lose more teeth, won't be able to eat and your hygiene will drive even your family away. That'll free your time a lot more. Trust me, I know all about this. It's all good.

vitaplease




msg:141115
 8:48 am on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just imagine the ideal world according to Google.

They explain the whole algo, but its so good its impossible to spam.
(ideal game theory?)

Meanwhile, this remains the biggest forum on Webmasterworld.

GrinninGordon




msg:141116
 9:15 am on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

I dont have a desk, can't afford to smoke, can't remember what alcohol is and sold all my teeth to feed the baby because I followed previous "secrets" on webmasterworld.

fathom




msg:141117
 9:24 am on May 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

I find it interesting that if we keep talking about google and letting them know, well some of us, how do get into their index they will change it. So if you know how be vauge and ingeneral.

This is quite odd?

There are three kinds of business people.

1. hmmm... now I know -- I'll just do it myself.

2. Eyes glaze over on hearing we'll add keywords..., and

3. I don't have the time... I got a business to run.

So while you are protecting so-called "trade secrets" from #1, so you can do it for them, and know full well that your so-called "trade secrets" are protected with group #2,

That third group (and the most profitable I might add) you'll never reach and therefore is left for those that demonstrate... qualified knowledge, skill-sets, and credibility for a long term relationship.

In addition... if and when group #1 fails due to limited overall knowledge, they are more apt to return to the consultant that was most forthcoming, and a second crack at the relationship.

As for Google... Their interest is protecting the quality and integrity of the index... if no spam tactics are used and quality website information is pushed forward -- do you really believe Google will change from this so SEM(O) can't make a living. Google can adjust the algo as much as they want -- you can't lose! ;)

4eyes




msg:141118
 2:02 pm on May 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Fathom hit it on the head

We spent far too much time worying about hiding secrets from type 1, instead of searching out the type 3 customers.

Once we found an avenue into the type 3 guys we stopped worrying, and if the odd type 1 nicks our ideas, so be it.

Its better to establish credibility than to hide behind the 'if I told you I'd have to kill you' excuse.

ciml




msg:141119
 2:18 pm on May 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

ditto fathom, I wish I'd realised that much earlier. The type 1 people make for good SEO friends, swapping tid-bits and raising the collective knowledge.

A huge amount of 'secrets' are shared here, but never all at once. The trick is knowing which threads (and which posters) give them away.

Yidaki




msg:141120
 2:32 pm on May 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Without giving away "secrets" (i prefer to call it "knowledge that wasn't built into my had from my birthday on") a community like WebmasterWorld would be either very silent or too noisy. For me, i love to share my experinces - that's what's live's about. I can't tell you how happy i am that here at WebmasterWorld others share their knowledge as well. BTW: you allways can choose whom you tell your secrets.

...and i feel that google is mature enough to change its algo if all secrets are out. ;)

fathom




msg:141121
 3:43 am on May 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just to expand > the "secrets" or "knowledge" information or posts are all out there and in Google and WebmasterWorld ranks top on a very wide array of them.

No matter how you view the equation > if the knowledge you have today is NOT shared you are slowly losing out.

Before becoming a member > I was fairly profitable > since becoming a member that profitability increased four-fold.

Not because I'm better > just getting better marketability.

It hard to market online without sharing "trade secrets". The WebmasterWorld community as a whole is a goldmine > not so much to gobble up and use other members "little nuggets"... but to expand your own net worth of "nuggets" that remains "near forever" in Google's archive.

In today's online marketing climate > businesses don't want to be scammed, so they seek out those that appear trustworthy. "We'll get you ranked..., or no spam tactics here..." qualifies you as Harry's former cousin and not so easily trusted.

A successful SEO, SEM, eMarketer or whatever without a website > a contraction in terms... I just let WebmasterWorld do what it's good at... sharing... and ensure I actively post in threads that have "a question which needs answering".

Lurkers lose, readers get a few "nuggets" to use, but quality active posters get enhance business credibility. The power of "acquired knowledge" and shown is far superior to "hidden knowledge" which goes unseen.

darn -- my secret is out of the bag!
;)

[edited by: fathom at 4:04 am (utc) on May 4, 2003]

chiyo




msg:141122
 4:03 am on May 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

We used to worr about "giving away secrets". We dont worry as whatever "concrete" info you give out this month may well be obsolete next month, or even dangarous. When you hire a professional you pay for their time in keeping up with the very latest in their area, their "instinct" gathered over many years of experience, and the "customer experience" reflected by their customer service, attention, and understanding your needs, and delivering.

In short, the "content" is just the tip of the iceburg of the "process". Same goes for other professions like medicine and law but SEO is far far more fast moving...

marcs




msg:141123
 4:47 am on May 4, 2003 (gmt 0)

The 'secrets' are like recipes... knowing every recipe in the book does not make you a good cook.

Sure, some cooks may have a secret ingredient they won't talk about, but it wouldn't take other cooks long to figure out what it is once they taste the food (come across the site in question).

This 40 message thread spans 2 pages: 40 ( [1] 2 > >
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