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This 38 message thread spans 2 pages: 38 ( [1] 2 > >     
different kinds of penalties

 10:58 am on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

My site is on the net for some time and had a PR5.
Two days ago my PR went grey. When I checked the google cache for my page, it was nowhere to be found. Same with "site:mydomain.com mydomain.com".
Needless to say that I receive no traffic anymore.

Is this a penalty or something else?
I always thought a PR0 was the typical kind of penalty.

But from my weblogs I can see that I am still deepcrawled.

Could the new hidden text filter be that cause?
I used <h1> often, but with my css it just looked like bold text.

Has anything like this happened to anybody before?
What can you make of the timing?



 11:10 am on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Strange, I just noticed the exact same thing happened to one of my sites.

It's actually right out of the google index. Very odd. Some re-shuffling going on I take it because I certainly have done nothing against the google code of conduct.

Still getting freshbotted though.

I wouldn't worry too much - unless you have done something wrong, I suspect they're shuffling something around.



 11:14 am on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've just noticed that I am still in the index at www-ex.google.com for this site.

Odd..... wait and see I think. I'm not panicking. Just yet....!



 12:06 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, after dong a little research on here (mental note - do that first before replying to other questions!), it seems that this is "everflux".

Our site I'm referring to is brand spanking new (about 4 weeks old now) and was constantly showing up in the SERPS thanks to freshie (we were right up there).

Now it's vanished into thin air but apparently this is quite normal. We got deepcrawled heavily over the last week, so I guess we'll be in the "full index" over the next few months, but it is likely to be a little unstable for a while.

I suspect google have rolled-back to an old index, and we haven't yet been freshbotted into it.

If anyone with some experience on this can verify my take on this, I'd be grateful.

(still living and learning on this SEO stuff, but I also keep having to remind myself to stop worrying about all that and just concentrate on putting some more good content in the damn sites. I have about 6 ideas currently for really good articles, and they're not getting done because I find the SEO side too fascinating. Let it be TJ!)


 12:36 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi qwerty03

"Could the new hidden text filter be that cause?
I used <h1> often, but with my css it just looked like bold text."

I think modifying H1 is ok, as long as it appears the biggest and boldest text on the page. If you have reduced it down to normal bold, and used bold tag elsewhere, you are crossing a fine line and could trip a spam algo.

I would not panic yet, but sort out the H1 to be bigger than bold.

There could be various reasons you have a grey bar, the most likely is your tool bar is playing up, or a blip with google. Make sure you still have links in and sweat it out till the next update.
Good luck.


 12:47 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I will disagree about having H1 the biggest and boldest text on the page. Even the w3 guidelines state that the heading tags are as much a *structural* tool as a formatting tool.



 1:20 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi Critter

Good point, you may be right.

It just makes sense to me that H1 should be the most prominent text. I think it unlikey Googlebot will check out the css file but you never know. There has been lots of talk of H1 abuse, and maybe Google is looking for any 'over modification' which decieves the spider into thinking text is a 'header' when in fact it is just the same as 'bold'.

I'm probably being over cautious, but at the end of the day it is deception, after all, why use it if you are just creating bold text? Answer.... to decieve the spider. Once you go down that road, you are asking for trouble.


 1:22 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't know if "deceive" the spider is the right word. Perhaps "guide" the spider would be better.

Now if you put every second sentence in <h1> tags then that would be different.



 1:37 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

To get back to the initial post.
If my PR is grey, can this be a google ban (or penalty)?


 1:44 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

LOL...whoops, sorry. Got off topic there.

Grey bar usually means not rated yet. PR0 means penalty (unless it is a totally new site, in which case it could be unrated as well).



 2:24 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

So under what circumstances can a site that had a PR5 for some month and still shows backlings disapear from all datacenters. (now PR grey)

Is it just the worst case of everflux (this sounds too unlikely to me...) or any other theories?


 2:27 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

The only time I saw something similar was when a domain I registered after it expired went from a PR7 to a grey PR after the filters GG anounced kicked in.

This site is not such a site. But they are hosted on the same IP.
Could this cause the expired domain filter to generate false results?

Or any other filters?


 2:39 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've just noticed that I am still in the index at www-ex.google.com for this site.

www-ex seems to be out of sync with the other 7 data centres. Try the google-dance tool with 8 data centres as the option right now.

- Ash


 2:59 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Two reasons why your site might have a gray bar. One, your site was down during the Google crawl. Or, two, there is a possible penalty. I'd be more apt to think it was the first reason.

Could the new hidden text filter be that cause?

What new hidden text filter? And how does that apply to <h> tags?

If your site is new and is appearing sporadically in the Google index, that is because it is not fully indexed yet. Give it another month and things should settle down.

[edited by: pageoneresults at 3:00 pm (utc) on April 26, 2003]


 2:59 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)


I've done that - ww2 and ww3 also out of sync.

I've looked at some random cached pages in google.com and I can see they've reverted to last months index.

So, no great issue with that.



 3:03 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

>there is a possible penalty


Can you please confirm something I was always under the impression a Zero PR was a penalty.

I've some new sites only just finished that are showing Gray bar? Very confused


 3:05 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

tigger, my understanding and experience shows that if you see a gray bar, the site has not been indexed yet. I've also read here that there are some penalties where a gray bar is imposed. Not sure what type of penalty causes that, I can only go based on what I've read here.

I usually wait a full 8 weeks (or two Google updates) before beginning to worry. Fortunately I've not had that happen yet so I've not yet had to deal with that stress! ;)

P.S. I have a new site that I just launched for a client two weeks ago. It is currently showing a gray bar. Based on experience I'm assuming that PR will be instilled once the next update rolls around. Googlebot has been hitting the site for the past couple of weeks so I know things are okay.


 3:09 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't know for sure, but logic would dictate that a grey bar means the site is not in the index yet. Or has been purposefully removed (penalty).

PR0 with inbound links with PR would indicate a penalty, but the site remains in the index (will always stay PR0).

Google has just rolled back it's index to (at least) last months. See the different results between www-ex and www



 3:11 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks POR

I just wish Google would change it so that banned/penalised sites had a red bar it would make our lives so much easier and stop us poor designers getting more stomach ulcers


 3:12 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've just noticed that I am still in the index at www-ex.google.com for this site.

What is www-ex.google?


 3:21 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would not panic yet, but sort out the H1 to be bigger than bold.

The styling of your <h> tags is not going to affect whether or not you have a gray toolbar, or even a PR0 for that matter. There may be instances where someone fell under a manual review and because there was <h> tag abuse along with other factors, they may have received a penalty.

<h> tags are meant to be styled in today's web design. If they were not, all of us would be reading 24/26 pt. type across the web.

Style your <h> tags as you see fit. Just be sure that you are following good web design and not just dropping <h> tags here and there because you've heard that it might help in ranking.

I'm probably being over cautious, but at the end of the day it is deception, after all, why use it if you are just creating bold text?

A little over cautious maybe? ;)

You utilize <h> tags to properly segment a document. It is not about size, it is not about being bold, it is about proper document structure. If you use css to control the appearance of your <h> tags along with everything else, there is no problem whatsoever.


 3:28 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

What is www-ex.google?


Which is one of the other data centres - see also www2 and www3.google.....

Looking through the various data centres often can give you an idea of what is going on with the google index if you notice something strange happening.

www-ex usually shows the up to date index just before and during the google dance when all other data centres are updating.

Looking at the number of postings you've made I won't patronise you by telling you what the google dance is! lol

Apparently you can also point your google toolbar at www-ex and get your new pagerank before the googledance finishes and settles, but as someonelse on this point said on here "that's all a little too geeky for me!"



 3:29 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

>What is www-ex.google?

Hay POR whats this the blind leading the blind here :)

As far as I know ex.google is just another data centre, normally the update when it starts, starts there


 3:49 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

trillianjedi, tigger, I'm embarassed. I've never had the need to view all the data centers. I was trying to browse to that address and thought the hyphen (-) was there to break the link!

The only data centers I will look at periodically are www2 and www3, usually just www2.

You guys/gals have too much time on your hands today. Usually the data centers don't get much activity from us until around update time which I believe is another couple of weeks away if we base it on past history.

Hehehe, I learned something new today. Goes to show you that you can teach an old dog new tricks, eh? ;)


 3:56 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

>I'm embarassed

I won't tell anyone if you don't :)


 4:12 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

I agree POR, it's a tad early.

I was just checking out on of my (very new) sites which dropped from the main index today.

May have to wait now for the google dance and new index proper.



 8:07 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

This is sick.
I even get freshbots visits, but still, no PR.

And NO, my website was up an running during the deepcrawl.


 10:39 pm on Apr 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, it's either an old index since before you ever had pagerank, or you've been removed from the index for doing something bad.

You won't know for sure until the update in two weeks time, so I'd hang tight and chill about it if I were you.

I know that's easier said than done sometimes but there is nothing you can do.

Have a beer, go see a movie.



 2:08 am on Apr 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Gray bar is for a new site. When your site experiences its first Dance, it is taken into the Google index. It receives its first PR at the SECOND Dance. It is nerve-wracking to wait, but necessary. Just take it easy...the second Dance will give your site its PR. I have acquired nerves of steel...

A PRzero happens for example if a site goes through the second Dance and has NO links. Or, a PR0 can be a penalty if, for example, the site has links from a "link farm" or has committed another Google "no-no". In either event, I think no webmaster wants to take the chance to link to a PR0 site.

The Dance is not the Deep Crawl. The Dance, Deep Crawl and EverFlux are explained in threads of this forum.


 5:08 am on Apr 27, 2003 (gmt 0)


Gray bar doesn't necessarily mean "hasn't been indexed yet".. We've seen sites that had PR as high as 4-5-6 that then went gray bar, and have remained so for the last 3 cycles....

We have also seen a couple of sites, have PR, go gray, then jump right back the next cycle...

We also have seen site go PR3 and 4 to PR0, and still receive great traffic...

Gray is not always mean "hasn't been indexed yet".
PR0 does not always mean penalized...

Many here, put "way" too much stock in the PR function of the Google tool bar...

PR's weight in the current Algo. is much less than 90 days ago...

This 38 message thread spans 2 pages: 38 ( [1] 2 > >
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