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Google Not Acting on Problem Results Reports
JudgeJeffries




msg:142988
 6:09 pm on Apr 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I keep seeing spam stealing the top positions so I report it to Google time and again and nothing happens, so what do I do?
If you cant beat them join them.
This is my living we're talking about after all. The bread on my table.
Not cloaking yet but it may become necessary if Google don't start taking the spam reports more seriously.
Why do they ask for them and then take no action?
How about some serious answers.

 

Tamarick




msg:143168
 10:05 pm on Apr 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

What about standard compliant sites? My site is 100% standard compliant and I use a hidden <div style="display:none;"> to tell "non-compliant browser users" to update their browser. This is an industry norm and is invisable to "standard-compliant" browsers..

Will google look for this stuff?
If so will people like Jeff Zeldman, Eric Meyer, and Tantek Celik be banned from google?

These guys are the leading web designers in the world... If they say "do it" I usually do...

vincevincevince




msg:143169
 10:13 pm on Apr 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

I use a hidden <div style="display:none;"> to tell "non-compliant browser users" to update their browser.

oh, how nice of you. i love going to websites which instead of working around any possible browser issues, just moan about them. and if you read my posts before ever, you'll know just what i think of standards (why not make MORE forgiving browsers so we can use SLOPPIER code?)

WebManager




msg:143170
 10:13 pm on Apr 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

The spamming site above me in the SERPs is so crappy that I would do myself a dis-service by reporting it.

I'll report it when it is a *decent* site and still spamming - but this combination is unlikely.

Catnip




msg:143171
 10:48 pm on Apr 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

What is the link to make a report again?

Thanks in advance,

Catnip
:)

Tamarick




msg:143172
 11:14 pm on Apr 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

vincevincevince

How can you possibly say that? I don't moan about anything. I just comply with people like...hmmm the W3C.. Heard of them? A standard compliant site loads quicker, performs better, is much easier to update, and is overall a better user experience than any non-standards site.
Not to mention, they cater to everyone... Including people with disabilities....

Why not make more forgiving browsers? Because people like Eric Meyer,(lead programmer for Netscape), understand the importance of separating content from display...And because the W3C says so...Besides... what true web designer would want to use sloppy code? What purpose does that serve their users? I didn't know being lazy was a job requirement...

By the way, all other things being equal... A standards compliant site will out rank and sloppy coded site on Google as well...

gilli




msg:143173
 12:54 am on Apr 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

mrguy:

Since when did using <h1> tags become spam?

Well

<h1>This is actually a paragraph, but it is marked up with a h1 tags. However with some css it can appear to a regular user agent in an identical way to the common rendering of paragraph. If I liked I could write a simple css rule and use h1 tags to mark up all my paragraphs.</h1>

<h1>I have not actually seen this done on a page and am not sure if it would even be effective. However I do think that it would generally consitute spam.</h1>

<h1>I agree that poor mark up is not always spam - very often its not. I think that sites that fall into this category are unlikely to be reported as spam and even less likely to be banned when reviewed by Google.</h1>

roundabout:

Wouldn't the best way to handle this be that the algorithm simply ignore the offending feature.

The ultimate aim for Google is to block or discount all spam techniques via the algo, however this takes time and work and is not always 100% effective. In addition spam techniques are evolving almost as fast as the algo itself. As a stop gap measure Google can & do use the spam reports to specifically ban sites that are spamming but can not be effectively or quickly removed from the SERPS via the algo.

Tamarick:

What about standard compliant sites?

You can be standards compliant and still be spamming or you could ignore the standards and not be spamming. The two issues are not really related. As for hidden divs - its hard to make a general rule but I certainly think that indexing your upgrade message would be pointless. I'm not saying you should be banned, but when GoogleBot parses your page it should ignore the content of your hidden div.

By the way, all other things being equal... A standards compliant site will out rank and sloppy coded site on Google as well...

Probably only if the code to content ratios are much lower on the standards compliant site (which is pretty likely). Google pays attention to some semantics but not all. For example I *think* it is likely to prefer <h1>My Heading</h1> to <p style="font-size:18px;font-weight:bold;">My Heading</p> or the dreaded font tags. But I don't think it follows citations, etc..

Disclaimer: I'm SEO expert and most of the above is speculation and "gut feeling" so I could be way off the mark with some or all of the above.

Tamarick




msg:143174
 1:09 am on Apr 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm not trying to index my upgrade message... It just happens to be that way... The (display:none;) is in the style sheet... Standards compliant browsers read the style sheet and thus.. do not display the message... Google doesn't read the stylesheet... so it would display the message... I just want to know if (display:none;) in a stylesheet will be considered "hidden text" by google...

vincevincevince




msg:143175
 1:18 am on Apr 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

Tamarick

Because people like Eric Meyer,(lead programmer for Netscape), understand the importance of separating content from display...And because the W3C says so

I'd like to know the importance of separating content from display. For me, and for most, the task of web design IS display. Display of the information in the way I want, where I want. And I want that task to be as easy as possible for me.

Secondly - what has the W3C done for me, that I should follow such directions from them?

Why are webdesigners grovelling before standards and browser designers? Why are you all spineless and not standing up agaist these things which just make more work for you, and less work for Eric Meyer?

dude888




msg:143176
 1:24 am on Apr 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

vincevincevince,

You obviously missed the boat. Standards compliant web development is clearly the immediate future of web browsing. That's why Microsoft, Netscape and every other browser developer is racing to supply people with a browser that supports standard compliant code, and degrades old markup like you're using.

You should probably research a bit before you open your uninformed mouth about standards compliant code. Otherwise you'll eventually lose respect from your peers.

By the way, your b*ildaproject.com breaks up in Mac IE5. Hmmm, did someone say "SLOPPIER CODE".

Your "tip of the day" says "KISS: keep it simple stupid." Maybe you should take a look in your mirror and "tip" yourself. Compliant XHTML and CSS driven web development is the most simple and beneficial web design tool you could possibly teach yourself, "stupid".

oh, how nice of you. i love going to websites which instead of working around any possible browser issues, just moan about them. and if you read my posts before ever, you'll know just what i think of standards (why not make MORE forgiving browsers so we can use SLOPPIER code?)

[edited by: dude888 at 1:36 am (utc) on April 24, 2003]

dude888




msg:143177
 1:34 am on Apr 24, 2003 (gmt 0)


Secondly - what has the W3C done for me, that I should follow such directions from them?

They supply Microsoft and Netscape, etc with the specifications for which the browser programmers build their browsers by. They are the fertilizer that makes your grass grow. Look it up before sounding really ignorant.

gilli




msg:143178
 2:02 am on Apr 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

Tamarick:

I'm not trying to index my upgrade message... It just happens to be that way... The (display:none;) is in the style sheet... Standards compliant browsers read the style sheet and thus.. do not display the message... Google doesn't read the stylesheet... so it would display the message... I just want to know if (display:none;) in a stylesheet will be considered "hidden text" by google...

AFAIK Google *does* read your style sheet looking specifically for display:none; I have no evidence of this but I think they would be mad not too. Also AFAIK display:hidden; is considered hidden text by google. Again no evidence just my understanding of things.

vincevincevince:

I'd like to know the importance of separating content from display. For me, and for most, the task of web design IS display. Display of the information in the way I want, where I want. And I want that task to be as easy as possible for me.

We are sort of getting way off topic here but anyway.... (feel free to move this if required).

An example of seperating content from presentation is having an HTML file and then 2 style sheets; 1 for screen layout the other for print layout (hides nav, bumps up font size, remove backgrounds etc..). Super easy, very widely supported and way way better practice than "click here for a print friendly version". The point is your *content* may be viewed through a bunch of different mechanisms or "view ports" (screen, print, hand held, aural browser or even over the phone). Seperating content from presentation makes this much, much easier.

Secondly - what has the W3C done for me, that I should follow such directions from them?

Um, for a start Tim Bernes-Lee (http://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/)the founder & director of the W3C proposed a little thing called the World Wide Web back in 1989. He wrote the first web server & the first browser and also put together the first specs for HTTP, HTML and URLs.

There is heaps that they have done to make the web as useful as it is today. However they don't own the Internet or govern it in any way. Go ahead and markup your stuff however you like.

Why are webdesigners grovelling before standards and browser designers? Why are you all spineless and not standing up agaist these things which just make more work for you, and less work for Eric Meyer?

I think you are missing the general idea. No one is groveling. The web is based on cooperation. When you point your browser at www.webmasterworld.com your browser and the web server cooperate to get the job of presenting you with the page done.

The cavalear attitude of "standing up against" people who are trying to make the the web a better place is not going to help anyone. But again if thats how you want to make your pages then go ahead.

Maybe stand up against Google while you're at it and they may learn their lesson.

<edit>typos</edit>

Tamarick




msg:143179
 2:06 am on Apr 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

You took the words right out of my mouth gilli!

Well said... and thanks for the info...

WebGuerrilla




msg:143180
 4:03 am on Apr 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>We are sort of getting way off topic here

Yes we are. And the tone of the posts have also slipped below my level of tolerance. So at this point, I think we can put this thread to bed.

This 193 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 193 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7]
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