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This 61 message thread spans 3 pages: 61 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
The value of a PR6 vs. PR7 Backlink
How much are they worth?
bokesch




msg:180760
 1:09 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

I run a site that sells a product that varies in cost, $500-$5000.

Currently I'm at a PR4, and my competitor is at a PR6 because of a series of backlinks from a PR7 site. I was thinking of advertising on back-linked site as well.

To be on the homepage, which is a PR7, it would cost about $1000. Every other page in the site is a PR6 and that would only cost $350. I'm wondering if the extra $650 would be worth it to have a PR7 backlink.

Has anyone else had to make any tough decisions like this? It's being charged to my client, not me, so the decision isn't the easiest.

 

NotePad




msg:180761
 1:11 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

i wouldn't do it, PR is not nearly as important as good position IMHO, the two aren't allways hand in hand

WebGuerrilla




msg:180762
 1:21 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)


It depends on many factors. How many outbound links? Is it a site that is within the same niche? Are the ads really straight links, or are they running an ad tracking system? If PR didn't exist, would this be a site your client would want to advertise on?

julinho




msg:180763
 1:24 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Do you mean that by selling one or two extra items of whatever you sell you would cover the cost of a PR7?
I would go for it.

rfgdxm1




msg:180764
 1:52 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>To be on the homepage, which is a PR7, it would cost about $1000. Every other page in the site is a PR6 and that would only cost $350. I'm wondering if the extra $650 would be worth it to have a PR7 backlink.

I'm assuming this is a one time payment? First, I don't encourage buying and selling of PageRank. However, if this is a one time payment, there are all sorts of risks. What if Google PR0s this site? What if the site goes offline? What if the seller reneges a few months later? I'd say if you must buy PR, then do it on the basis of you paying x number of dollars for the link per month. That way worst case scenario is you are out the money for just a month.

ecomagic




msg:180765
 2:02 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

While I don't sell page rank, I do sell text adverts on one of my sites that has a PR7 for under $100 per month.

$1000 per month for a text link seems pretty pricy in my opinion.

Are people honestly selling links on PR7 sites for upto $1000?

[edited by: WebGuerrilla at 2:47 am (utc) on April 8, 2003]
[edit reason] No PR deals here please [/edit]

Pegasus




msg:180766
 2:05 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

My two cents

A link from a

PR5 page: Very easy to get. not worth anything. I have a hundred of these.
PR6 page: Good, but not all that hard to get. I have a couple of dozen of these.
PR7 page: Quite good, and a bit harder to get. I have about half a dozen of these.
PR8 page: Very good. I have none of these yet. Well worth sucking up to someone for. It will probably give you PR6 on its own.

My conclusion: PR7 - no pay. PR8 - pay a few hundred dollars (if it's once-off fee). PR9 - sell soul.

As a general principle, a link from a high-ranking page will give you a rank two points below that. (e.g. if you get a link from a PR7 page, it will give you PR5 on its own.)

:)

ecomagic




msg:180767
 2:44 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

The big thing to remember about passing page rank is the number of links the page has. From memory reading the published early Page Rank algo each page gives out it's page rank equally amoungst all links on a page.

So if page (A) with PR7 has only 1 link, which goes to page (B). there is a very high chance that page (B) will get a PR7.

If page (A) PR7 has 100 links, only 1 of which goes to page (b) then it's likely to get a PR3 or PR4.

so it's not just the PR of a page linking to you that is important is is also the number of links on the page. Because all of those links equally share the PR of the page (minus dampening factor).

rfgdxm1




msg:180768
 2:54 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>$1000 per month for a text link seems pretty pricy in my opinion.

These prices would be crazy unless they are a one off payment.

rfgdxm1




msg:180769
 3:21 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>My conclusion: PR7 - no pay. PR8 - pay a few hundred dollars (if it's once-off fee). PR9 - sell soul.

Then you have little understanding of the potential market. The way to analyze this is what it would take as a buyer in terms of money to induce people with pages of various PR to link to you. As for a PR5, those should go pretty damn cheap. It doesn't take much to find teenagers out there with PR5 home pages. These kids would sell links dirt cheap, and if you pay much more than that you are paying too much. PR6 is a bit less common. Such links are worth something, but not much. These should be obtainable for $10 a month if you make offers to a number of people. PR7 pages just ain't that common. It is in this range that definitely you have to start thinking more substantial payment. For a PR7 page with relatively few links, I can easily see some e-commerce business paying $50 a month to get. Anything less than $30 I'd consider a good bargain. If anyone out there is selling links on PR8 pages for a few hundred bucks as a one off payment the don't know what they have got to sell. As for a PR9, those you are going to have to pay through the nose for.

Note the above valuations are based on the assumption that the link basically is worthless for click through value. As in, it is on a site where people who likely would buy from you don't usually go to. If click throughs likely would make you money, then the values I gave above are way to low.

NotePad




msg:180770
 3:22 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't like this whole idea.

bokesch




msg:180771
 4:09 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Let me add to my initial post:

One of my competitors is advertising on the PR7 homepage and they are now coming up in the top 10. The site I'd be paying to be listed on doesn't seem to be at risk for getting banned. I do get scared though when people say paying for a PR7 is crazy. I'm still hovering around a low PR4, and my site isn't anywhere near the top 10 for a particular phrase I need.

The site is also industry related to my biz, and they say it gets 50,000 hits a month. The $1000 is an annual fee.

Note: I find it very amusing that as soon as I posted this message I was bombarded with sticky mail from people offering to sell me PR7 links for a monthly fee! I guess there are more people here than I initially thought.


NotePad




msg:180772
 4:16 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

50k isn't really thaat much and PR is no guaruantee of SERP

ALbino




msg:180773
 4:22 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

I find it very amusing that as soon as I posted this message I was bombarded with sticky mail from people offering to sell me PR7 links for a monthly fee! I guess there are more people here than I initially thought.

The real question though is if there's any PR8/9 willing to sell ;) Not that I wouldn't consider buying a PR7 link if the price was right... :)

vik_c




msg:180774
 5:34 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Pegasus, Amazing! How did you manage to get those PR7 links? I wish I could have a few :)

rfgdxm1




msg:180775
 5:46 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>The site is also industry related to my biz, and they say it gets 50,000 hits a month. The $1000 is an annual fee.

Hmm...that's about $83 a month. If that page is industry related, and doesn't have many links, likely worth it.

Pegasus




msg:180776
 5:57 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

rfgdxm1 I disagree with that concept.

You said "the way to analyze this is what it would take as a buyer in terms of money to induce people with pages of various PR to link to you."

You're implying that it's somehow *necessary* to have those links.

If I found that the links weren't going to be worth the asking price, I wouldn't buy them.

I'd say "I will pay no more than $X for a link of Y quality" not "I want a link from site Z. How much is it going to cost me?"

vik_c I get links by searching for high pagerank sites that deal with the same topic as my site. I then email the site owner and ask them politely for a link. I also post my articles and tutorials on information sites. Having good content also helps.

bokesch: what do they mean by "hits"? If they mean unique visitors, that's pretty good. If they mean "hits", then that's less than I get in one day.

NeedScripts




msg:180777
 6:00 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

The site is also industry related to my biz

It you can afford it and if you *think* it is worth it, then I dont' see any reason why google or anyone would wanna ban your or their site.

I am unware of any tool or rule or scale that would tell google that your intention of advertising on that site was PR and nothing else.

Also, there are many sites, who would rather not deal with setting up an AD Management software and just insert static banner or text link code and sell advertising on monthly basis. Their disability of setting up ad management software does not qualify them as PR sellers.

If you think their target audience is where you want to advertise, then there is no reason not to, and while doing so if you get little/no/good advantage of PR, then it was just one of those side benefits.

ecomagic




msg:180778
 6:42 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

> and they say it gets 50,000 hits a month

50K hits is a low traffic site in my opinion. The site I was discussing earlier in this thread had 3,641,781 page views last month, which is over 10,000,000 "hits"

If you are interested in buying the links for traffic try find out the "page views" and "unique visitors".

Hits is a bit like those tiny no name brand stereo's that claim to have 10,000 watts PMPO. Years ago when I was studying Electronic Engineering I asked the professor what PMPO was and he had no idea. Turns out that is Peak Music Power Output. Which means the amount of volume thay can send through the speaker before it blows up... hehe

rfgdxm1




msg:180779
 7:02 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>I'd say "I will pay no more than $X for a link of Y quality" not "I want a link from site Z. How much is it going to cost me?"

I think you misunderstood what I meant, or I was unclear. I was thinking in terms of buying links in terms of just raw PR value, with no consideration of click throughs. If that is what you want, then what you are going to look for is what the cheapest sellers would be, and how much money it would take to induce them to link to you. PR5 pages out there are so common that links should go for a very small amount of money. The supply side of the market is huge. PR6 links are a bit more scarce. It is likely going to take more than peanuts, but they won't cost all that much. PR7 and more are far more rare. If you can buy such dirt cheap, go for it. However, if they know what they have to sell it won't be dirt cheap.

ecomagic




msg:180780
 7:31 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

> However, if they know what they have to sell it won't be dirt cheap.

In a free market economy the market price is what a willing buyer and willing seller are prepared to pay. For me as someone with advertising inventory to sell I gotta get whatever money I can to fill the space. I have even sold a single link on a PR7 page for $50 for a month which was one of 5 external links on the whole site. People may say I'm an idiot for it but at that time that was all I believed it to be worth for it's not google related factors.

Just because somebody says they are wanting some huge figure for a text link because of "PR" doesn't mean everybody on the planet is wanting to charge mega bucks.

I personally value my text links in relation to other advertising options like fastclick or advertising.com banners or popups etc.

I personally don't believe I can sell links based on google PR. The reason is that I down OWN the Google Page Rank, Google owns it's page rank. So how on earth can I see something that I don't own, that's fraud isn't it?

rfgdxm1




msg:180781
 7:37 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>In a free market economy the market price is what a willing buyer and willing seller are prepared to pay. For me as someone with advertising inventory to sell I gotta get whatever money I can to fill the space. I have even sold a single link on a PR7 page for $50 for a month which was one of 5 external links on the whole site. People may say I'm an idiot for it but at that time that was all I believed it to be worth for it's not google related factors.

Actually, I'd say $50 a month is by no means a low price if the buyer was just interested in it for the PR. Particularly if that page had a number of other links on it. Remember, it isn't whether links are internal or external, but the number of links on a page. It is when the page is PR8 or higher that the value of links starts really becoming large.

kiwi webmaster




msg:180782
 8:28 am on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

Buying Pagerank?

Absolute waste of money if you ask me.

The only way for you to really benefit from getting links from high PR pages is when it is coming from a site which is closely related to yours.

e.g. A site looking for high rankings for 'oakland web hosting' is going to receive little (if any) benefit when linked to from a PR 7 site with high rankings for 'san francisco real estate'.

Basically, you need to approach your competitors if you are serious about getting benefits from links from high PR sites.

rfgdxm1




msg:180783
 7:25 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>The only way for you to really benefit from getting links from high PR pages is when it is coming from a site which is closely related to yours.

I see zero evidence of this. Care to cite proof?

WebGuerrilla




msg:180784
 7:36 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

e.g. A site looking for high rankings for 'oakland web hosting' is going to receive little (if any) benefit when linked to from a PR 7 site with high rankings for 'san francisco real estate'.

I think you are confusing Google with Teoma [sp.teoma.com].

While I'm sure it could change in the future, right now a link is a link.

rfgdxm1




msg:180785
 8:26 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>I think you are confusing Google with Teoma.

Right. And, it appears to me that this so far only affects their "Refine" option. Here is a nice, neutral example:

[s.teoma.com...]

Teoma looks for which other words tend to occur on web pages that contain "Siamese". Thus:

Siamese Cat
Siamese Fighting Fish
Siamese Cattery
Siamese Rescue
Traditional Siamese
Siamese Cats

Thus, if someone enters a very general search term, Teoma offers suggestions to refine it based on how that term is associated with other terms on web pages. Using some examples with my own sites, I can see how my own page text is directly affecting the Teoma results. The question is how effectively will Teoma be able to ever apply this without false positives and negatives? Google assumes that a link itself is good enough as an endorsement for a page, regardless of the text. This Google strategy tends to work well so long as linking isn't artificially manipulated, such as buying PR. Statistically, for most searches the results won't be skewed by PR buying; most people aren't doing commercial searches. Thus, at least potentially the Teoma algo could do worse for non-commercial searches than Google.

shurlee




msg:180786
 8:53 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>For me as someone with advertising inventory to sell I gotta get whatever money I can to fill the space. I have even sold a single link on a PR7 page for $50 for a month which was one of 5 external links on the whole site. <

Too funny! Talk about your thinly disguised ads. I love watching the the verbal wrangling in trying to convince Googleguy not to hurt us while trying to let everyone know that we have PR to sell.

We shouldn't be too far from becoming known as THE place on the web to shop for or sell PR links. It's definetly turning into some kind of weird pr link exchange where we all do it but no one admits it.

netguy




msg:180787
 9:02 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

<PR5 page: Very easy to get. not worth anything. I have a hundred of these.>

Pegasas... I think you under-estimate the value your assets.

I routinely talk to dozens of people every week that have business sites and go to Google AddURL and wait.. and wait... and wait - sometimes 6 months before Google even finds them. (It would be worth 50 bucks to them just to link and get a jump-start).

My little PR5s and PR6s just plug along and get their regular freshbots, and although I would love to have a PR7 or PR8 link back to some sites, considerable discussion on FNC's (PR8) link strategy last week...

[webmasterworld.com...]

...indicates it costs $2,000 to $8,000 per month!

That's a little over my budget (plus I couldn't afford my Scotch that I need as I await Cassandra...... ;)

Steve

rfgdxm1




msg:180788
 9:04 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>We shouldn't be too far from becoming known as THE place on the web to shop for or sell PR links. It's definetly turning into some kind of weird pr link exchange where we all do it but no one admits it.

shurlee you jest? ;) This has got to be the very worst place on the Net to look to buy PR. If I wanted to buy PR (not that I would have a need as I just have commercial sites; however conceivably I could go into business of acting as an agent for other to buy high PR links for them for a fee), I'd forget WebmasterWorld. Prices here likely would be outrageously high. I'd be searching the Net for non-commercial sites that had high PR and didn't know its value, and trying to buy links from them cheap. However, I guess WebmasterWorld might be a good place to look for suckers who would pay way more than they needed to for links.

rfgdxm1




msg:180789
 9:13 pm on Apr 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

>I routinely talk to dozens of people every week that have business sites and go to Google AddURL and wait.. and wait... and wait - sometimes 6 months before Google even finds them. (It would be worth 50 bucks to them just to link and get a jump-start).

Then these owners of business sites that you know couldn't get a clue even if I stripped them naked, smeared them with clue musk, and dropped them in the land of clues during mating season. ;) It is trivial to find home pages of teenagers with minimal effort that have a PR5, who would sell links dirt cheap. Now, if we are talking about buying links with PR7 or better, finding someone who will sell such dirt cheap isn't likely to be easy.

This 61 message thread spans 3 pages: 61 ( [1] 2 3 > >
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