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Google Compute added to Google Labs
now much easier to enable
Slud




msg:47792
 6:00 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google labs has added a nice big button for enabling the Google Compute feature of the Google Toolbar.

Turn it on at [labs.google.com...]
(You might want to opt for the conservative mode tho')

Glad to see this becoming more widespread. Much bigger fan of this type of computing project that the decryption (unless it's X-box) and Seti@Home projects.

 

GoogleGuy




msg:47793
 7:18 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yah, it's been a busy week. I think we also add two new languages as well: Zulu and Xhosa! Thanks to the volunteers who helped translate these languages for our interface!
[sabcnews.com...]

rustyzipper




msg:47794
 9:56 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

OK.. so I can say told you so 5 years from now:

Google Compute is a small start, here's what is going to happen next:

1) Rebirth of the Free ISP - free internet access if you "check in" your idle processing power

2) New release of Linux or Windows that can take advantage of this "processing power" network so that you can enter your credit card number when you want to run a virtual "dual processor Pentium 8" or something like that
(if some Linux company gets the patent on this before Microsoft does, Linux will unseat Microsoft as the majority OS in 3-5 years (if Microsoft doesn't buy them out)

3)Intel patents and releases new distributed computing Pentium chip that takes advantage of this processing power network at the processor level, making it even faster & more efficient. Intel now no longer has to spend $$ on R&D to keep up with Moore's law.

4) Or if Google is a step ahead, they patent the technology and come out with their own operating system and GoogleOS unseats Microsoft & Linux and Google offers $10 PC's through Wal-Mart running on a Pentium I processor but outperforming Intel's fastest chipset if you use GoogleISP.

If someone actually ever succeeds in building the Food-aracacycle it will be Google.

Quinn




msg:47795
 10:06 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

1) Rebirth of the Free ISP - free internet access if you "check in" your idle processing power

2) New release of Linux or Windows that can take advantage of this "processing power" network so that you can enter your credit card number when you want to run a virtual "dual processor Pentium 8" or something like that
(if some Linux company gets the patent on this before Microsoft does, Linux will unseat Microsoft as the majority OS in 3-5 years (if Microsoft doesn't buy them out)

3)Intel patents and releases new distributed computing Pentium chip that takes advantage of this processing power network at the processor level, making it even faster & more efficient. Intel now no longer has to spend $$ on R&D to keep up with Moore's law.

4) Or if Google is a step ahead, they patent the technology and come out with their own operating system and GoogleOS unseats Microsoft & Linux and Google offers $10 PC's through Wal-Mart running on a Pentium I processor but outperforming Intel's fastest chipset if you use GoogleISP.


*wow* fascinating post.

Jesse_Smith




msg:47796
 1:59 am on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Gee, it sure would be nice if Google got smart enough to make these things for Mac. Maybe we would also like to help develop better treatments. Grrrrrrr. :( :( :(

loanuniverse




msg:47797
 2:53 am on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

I also have to say .... very nice and thought provoking thread.

Makes me want to say "Let's install Google on the computer - All the computers use Google now, as a result of the OS wars"

Kind of what like Sandra Bullock said in "Demolition Man" about Taco-Bell.

richmc




msg:47798
 9:22 am on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

kinda worries me that what may appear to be humanitarian research projects could give results that would be useful to weapons research and the like though.

i'd rather do the SETI thing.

kyr01




msg:47799
 9:41 am on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Rustyzipper, you do have a vision of the future that I like. Could we just take that 'enter credit card number' away to make it perfect?

Namaste




msg:47800
 9:43 am on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

It looks like Google's primary aim with "Compute" is to distribute crawler load....

An open source search engine is the need of the hour(possible, with the crawler using distributed power of PCs around the world). The search engine has become one of the pillars of the internet and with nearly 90% of the power resting with Google, it presents another Microsoft like situation.

Open Source: is anyone listening....how about incorporating a similar feature into Mozilla for starters

yetanotheruser




msg:47801
 9:55 am on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

i'd rather do the SETI thing.

- it give's you a pretty graph/screensaver and all :)

rustyzipper - Fascinating.. So you think we're going back to the terminal/mainframe way of computing.. just using 'all-the-computers-in-the-world' as the mainframe..

I haven't seen a great deal of the Intel X-Scale's yet, but I've some experience with the ARM chips their based on... given the enourmous postage-stamp(arm core) to large-brick(pentium) difference I recon we're gonna see a massive shift in the next couple of years to really quite powerful and cute devices... . .

Maybe in a couple of years your fridge will be spending it's day computing the meaning of life!

42 anyone ;)

phaze3k




msg:47802
 10:41 am on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

2) New release of Linux or Windows that can take advantage of this "processing power" network so that you can enter your credit card number when you want to run a virtual "dual processor Pentium 8" or something like that
(if some Linux company gets the patent on this before Microsoft does, Linux will unseat Microsoft as the majority OS in 3-5 years (if Microsoft doesn't buy them out)

3)Intel patents and releases new distributed computing Pentium chip that takes advantage of this processing power network at the processor level, making it even faster & more efficient. Intel now no longer has to spend $$ on R&D to keep up with Moore's law.

4) Or if Google is a step ahead, they patent the technology and come out with their own operating system and GoogleOS unseats Microsoft & Linux and Google offers $10 PC's through Wal-Mart running on a Pentium I processor but outperforming Intel's fastest chipset if you use GoogleISP.

Can't see any of these happening.

The massive network latency when compared with the internal of a computer even on the fastest possible internet connection makes distributed computing for everyday applications completely impractical. Distributed computing is great for CPU intensive tasks that can be easily split into batches and then recombined.
99% of applications are not like this.

richmc




msg:47803
 11:23 am on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Maybe in a couple of years your fridge will be spending it's day computing the meaning of life!

huh, it better not slack off cooling my beer while it's doing it ;)

jrobbio




msg:47804
 1:12 pm on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Maybe they are trying to beat grub to the distribution game since GoogleGuy found it so interesting...

dpplgngr




msg:47805
 7:52 pm on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'd really like to see Google Compute take off, because it will pave the way for Google to experiment with distributed client side heuristics. Because Compute is 100% optional, it could give them a sense
of whether or not that's something to try.

I met the person in charge of Toolbar projects (Wesley) when the Google team dropped by Harvard a few weeks ago. I made a suggestion regarding distributed bookmark searches- a sort of incidental path weighting somewhat akin to Amazon's "people who bought this also bought", but more clustery. I hope they're considering playing along those lines.

EliteWeb




msg:47806
 8:02 pm on Mar 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

I believe they should make the Google Compute application for the mac as there are other SETI applications for the Mac. Its easy to get the mac users involved. A simple addition to VersionTracker would get thousands upon thousands of downloads, maybe not 10 billion but the macs seem to work alright ;)

Id like to know what language 'Xhosa' is and where it origionates ;D

as_is




msg:47807
 12:18 am on Mar 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am quite a newbie about those computing thing,
seems a bright future is waiting for google..
and congradulations, google is my favorite search engine!

But i was just thinking sometimes we can't make it too strange, less powerful search engines are standing now.
It is terrible if someday all the search engine turns the same results----even if it is highly qualified.

Oaf357




msg:47808
 7:52 pm on Mar 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google attempting to harness distributed computing. This could be somewhat scary.

Thousands of computers across the globe crawling web sites randomly and sporadicly with varying IP addresses could lead to more hassle then it's worth. The constant question of "Who is this crawling my site" would become somewhat worrisome due to the potential abuse.

kyr01




msg:47809
 8:35 pm on Mar 30, 2003 (gmt 0)

The concept of distributed crawl may be interesting or scaring, depending on how we see it. I knew about grub.org and their project of distributed crawl, but I only recently discovered that grub was bought by looksmart ( This is the article I found [news.com.com]).
I guess this made Google act faster. I am seeing Google more and more (re)acting after pression from competitors. Should we start thinking that the most used search engine has no revolutionary idea left to keep its dominant position?
I hate it when I have to see that Google, once a true rule breaker, quietly follows those competitors we all considered gone forever. Hopefully, at Google they have a very smart plan that I am not quite able to understand, for now...

GoogleGuy




msg:47810
 1:04 am on Mar 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

kyr01, this is a distributed computing project, not a distributed crawling project. Just because they both have "distributed" in their name doesn't mean that they're related. :)

Google Compute lets people contribute their idle CPU cycles to scientific research, but it has nothing to do with crawling the web. Crawling the web isn't the hardest part of making a good search engine--it's what you do afterwards that matters the most. :)

Oaf357




msg:47811
 1:26 am on Mar 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy:

You're right. But, Google could benefit from setting up a Grub like system where crawls are performed for desktops of Google enthusiasts.

The computing power and bandwidth that Google could save would be immense.

GoogleGuy




msg:47812
 4:12 am on Mar 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

Oaf357, there's at least a couple reasons why you haven't seen us do a distributed crawl. It's not really a bandwidth savings--suppose that user A crawls a page instead of Googlebot. User A still has to transfer that page to Google at some point, so it doesn't save us any bandwidth to ask User A to fetch it for us.

In fact, you have to assume that User A isn't trustworthy--User A might claim that all the pages he fetched have links to user-a.com, for example. So now you might also have to ask User B to fetch the same pages in order to check on User A. That also means more bandwidth costs for everyone. It's easier just to fetch the page directly. Distributed computing has some interesting qualities, but for these and a few other reasons I'm skeptical of distributed crawling.

Oaf357




msg:47813
 4:23 am on Mar 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy:

It'd be great if Google shares the exact same opinion as you. For I had the same fears (Grub actually gives its users "preferred" rankings).

What would be nice is if Google could incorporate multiple, selectable distributed computing projects into the Google toolbar as opposed to just F@H.

kyr01




msg:47814
 7:25 am on Mar 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy, I agree in part. Just because Looksmart and Google are both working at distributed projects at the same time doesn't mean they are competing for the same product :)
I am sure, even being completely ignorant of what it takes to make a great search engine, that distributed crawling may somehow speed up the refresh process, at least, without having to mess with the main process of selecting and ranking pages, which could be left to in-house servers. It seems to me that the process of producing great and updated results involves three steps: crawl, ranking, around-the-clock (hopefully) refresh of crawled data (distributed crawl?) to keep your results current. I would really like to see Google and everybody for that matter involved with humanitarian distributed projects, but Grub suddenly came out of nowhere (at least for me...) and Looksmart doesn't exactly fit my idea of humanitarian company. Please accept my comments as those of a worried user of Google who is hoping to see a major trend reversal of the SE war. Good things do not last forever, but I really liked when Google was mainly worried about giving great results and had such a great advantage over competitors that didn't have to follow their steps with content-driven ads and distributed computing.

GoogleGuy




msg:47815
 7:59 am on Mar 31, 2003 (gmt 0)

kyr01, I appreciate the feedback. I wouldn't worry about Google standing still. We're always thinking about how to provide better search results. Oaf357, it's F@H for now--lots of people have been trying it though. :)

Namaste




msg:47816
 7:21 pm on Apr 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's not really a bandwidth saving

GG, I am surprised you have presented the simpleton's view in that message! What do you guys have up your sleeve?

You need distributed computing becuase you know that your cost of just assembling data is super high: new, removed and fresh pages. This is not indexing...indexing comes next, first you need to know about the page.

You have a unique code for each page(fingerprint) and you know that page has changed when the code changes. You then send the crawler out. Right now you aren't able to do this successfully, your detective and your crawler are combined in one...but with distributed computing this would change the game, wouldn't it? The local crawler would be used to report the code, and if the code is different it would trigger Googlebot

You know you don't have unique algo, you just have more computers than anyone else (50,000 and counting)...but even those can't keep up with this crazy web...that's why you need distributed computing...

aleksl




msg:47817
 9:28 pm on Apr 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just my 5 cents...Imagine how easy it would be for someone to break encryption by simple trial-and-error, should one get a hold of that distributed network...Also, what will prevent malicious folks from taking over such a network (or network owners slowly giving in) even with all "good-guy" karma they are spreading around?

I don't think Google needs distributed network to crawl the web. Judging by their algorythm though, they may use some of that distributed CPU power to calculate PRs.

Namaste




msg:47818
 7:21 am on Apr 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

there would be no security concerns, cause all the distributed network would do is report the fingerprint to googlebot. Googlebot would then perform the actual crawl. If Googlebot find a particular computers on the network unreliable, it could easily stop regarding the information that computer is sending.

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