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More pages = higher ranking?
Jon12345




msg:71499
 6:47 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Site A has 10 pages. Site B has 100 pages. Will Site B get the higher rank, all other things being equal?

Thanks,

Jon

 

Craig_F




msg:71500
 6:48 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

usually yes. note that all things can't be equal with different size sites.

Grumpus




msg:71501
 6:51 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't really think so in general. Site B is going to rank better as there are 100 pages with topical and more focused information than the 10 pages on site A. That gives site B 100 focused keyterms while Site A only has 10 not so focused ones. On a page by page basis, though, If site B and A have 10 basically identical pages (and there was no dupe penalty) they'd likely rank the same except for a slight bonus due to internal linking structure funneling PR back up toward the top.

G.

dwilson




msg:71502
 6:54 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Having more pages will not, as I understand it, raise your PR all by itself. The benefits come as more people find your site useful since it has more information -- and therefore are willing to link to it. Also, you will match more searches -- even ones you're not specifically targeting -- with more content online.

For example, this last weekend I did a search like
hinged widgets copper resist warp
None of the sites I found had optimized for that. But the sites with LOTS of content had some matches.

JeremyL




msg:71503
 6:56 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

It will not get you better rankings specifically. Basically the more pages you have, the more chance you have a decent ranking, even if not on a phrase you would have thought of. Think of it like buying lottery tickets. Every ticket you buy increases your chance to win only, Of course these lottery tickets can be optimized for better odds :P

Craig_F




msg:71504
 7:02 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

> slight bonus due to internal linking

this is exactly why I said the larger site would win. all things being equal means I'd have 2 great sites, but one would have 10x the number of keyword loaded internal links. I've found that bonus to be huge, not slight at all.

curlykarl




msg:71505
 7:03 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have a couple of sites

PR5 site = 20 Pages
PR4 site = 600 Pages

Both static HTML, a couple of pages from each are optimised for the same keyword?

IMHO I dont think size is that important :)

steveb




msg:71506
 7:19 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Size matters. Google ranks pages not sites. Bigger sites, say ten times bigger, with worse external linking will beat the index page of smaller sites for single word searches because they have ten times the links pointing at the main page. 1000 PR5 links with the link text "widget" will outperform 100 PR5 links with the link text "widget", even if the 100 PR5 links are a bit better PR5.

My site has huge advatages over a couple sites above me, more and higher quality external links for example, but they have hundreds and hundreds of their own "keyword" link text links pointing at their own main page.

julinho




msg:71507
 7:21 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think (after reading the white paper by Larry & Serge) that every page adds a tiny bit of PR.
This shouldn´t make a noticeable difference if you have 10 or 100 pages; however, a site which puts out 1000´s of pages every single day (CNN, yahoo, news agencies, country portals) must owe a good part of its PR to its internal pages.

dwilson




msg:71508
 7:27 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think (after reading the white paper by Larry & Serge) that every page adds a tiny bit of PR.

But the average PR in such a scheme is 1, is it not? Assuming no links from the outside. Pages that have many links back to them get higher PR, and those with fewer links get lower ... but it averages to 1. Until the site starts getting links from the outside.

Regarding huge sites like CNN, the main page would get a huge boost from those beneath it linking back. And smaller sites can do some of that too.

fathom




msg:71509
 7:28 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

that every page adds a tiny bit of PR.

Yes - but should not be taken out of context - to the extent of developing PR through increasing internal number of pages, so to develop ranking.

Have at least one site (6 pages) PR4 againsts sites with a few hundred pages and PR6 - 7 yet the PR4 (mainpage) ranks #1, #2 and many #4's on various 2-word keyphrases. PageRank by itself is not a magically solution.

BigDave




msg:71510
 7:36 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

As far as PageRank is concerned, a bigger site has more intrinsic PR to spread through the site.

But when it comes to external links coming in to your site, it is more difficult to give much of a boost to *all* your pages. A site with PR5 home page and 10 pages will most likely have all the pages at PR4-5. A PR5 site with 2000 pages will probably have pages ranging from PR1-5.

If all the pages are good content, you should find it easier to get links with the larger site.

PageRank aside, more pages give you more content, and more anchor text to work with. But it also increases the size of your pages (for more navigation) and gives you more navigation only pages. It also gives you that many more pages to manage.

Craig_F




msg:71511
 7:37 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

here's how I look at it:

say both the 10pg and 100pg site are going after the same 10 keywords on the same 10 pages. the larger site will have 90 additional pages that all link to those 10 pages with some form of keywords in the links. PR aside, all those keywords in the link text is gonna make that 100 page site win.

can you beat bigger sites in the serps as Fathom mentions? absolutely, and I do all the time, but if you applied the techniques you used to beat the bigger sites on a bigger site yourself where would you be? I know I'd be at the bank cashing my checks.

ariff44




msg:71512
 7:39 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

"internal linking structure funneling PR back up toward the top."

What does that mean? (sorry for the newbie question)

agerhart




msg:71513
 7:41 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

More pages = higher ranking?

Maybe, depends on how good you are ;), along with other variables.

More pages = higher ranking?

More like this:

More pages = More rankings = more traffic

SlyGuy




msg:71514
 7:42 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google ranks pages not sites.

Exactly.

More is better.

The initial question was:
Site A has 10 pages. Site B has 100 pages. Will Site B get the higher rank, all other things being equal?

My answer is yes. If the only difference is that site B has 10 times the content (pages) as site A does, than yes, site B would do better.

dwilson




msg:71515
 7:48 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

"internal linking structure funneling PR back up toward the top."
What does that mean?

If every page as a link to back to the main page, then a fraction of each page's PR is transferred to the main page. All those fractions add up if there are lots of pages linking back like that.

fathom




msg:71516
 7:52 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

My answer is yes. If the only difference is that site B has 10 times the content (pages) as site A does, than yes, site B would do better.

Well then I'll just copy my 10 pages each 10 times, then I'll get top rankings?

Oh really! ;)

SlyGuy




msg:71517
 8:17 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well then I'll just copy my 10 pages each 10 times, then I'll get top rankings?

Not quite.

Allow me to reiterate by saying that 10 pages of original, non-duplicate content will not do as well as 100 pages of original, non-duplicate content. ;)

WebRookie




msg:71518
 8:35 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

I agree, more pages are better.

fathom




msg:71519
 9:01 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yup SlyGuy -- sometimes I to need to back-track. What we say (write) can easily be taken out of context - and lead others down a bad path - and the conclusion would be - someone at WebmasterWorld said it was ok. :)

vitaplease




msg:71520
 9:55 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

More pages = higher ranking?

Maybe not, but often a sign of quality?

Does authority mean quality? [citeseer.nj.nec.com]

We have investigated the utility of various computable metrics in estimating the quality of web documents......Our results contained two main surprises – first, that in-degree performed at least as well as the more sophisticated authority and PageRank algorithms, and second, that a simple count of the pages on a site was about as good as any of the link analysis methods

often quality sites build one main domain, rather than farming 20 domains...

sean




msg:71521
 11:46 pm on Mar 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

that a simple count of the pages on a site was about as good as any of the link analysis methods

Until the moment you explicitly put it into the algo. =-)

unwatched web vs. watched web.

Reminds me of the Dilbert where they paid a bonus for every bug fix. Wally, "I'm going to go program me a new Corvette."

DrCool




msg:71522
 12:21 am on Mar 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

More pages = More rankings = more traffic

I think you hit the nail on the head agerhart.

With 100 pages of good, useful content there will be many more keyword combinations, keyword phrases, terms you never thought of, etc. than in 10 pages of quality content.

I have a site I just put up a couple months ago. I was debating on whether to make it a simple 10 page site or make it a big complex monster. I chose the monster because there was a lot of content I wanted to write for that site. It is already paying off because every new page I put up can target some different keywords and phrases. Looking through my logs I am seeing many new ideas for pages based on what people are searching for as well.

I do have some small sites with only a handful of pages that do well but I usually go with the more is better theory assuming there is enough good content to fill a lot of pages.

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