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Good news about expired domains
Another GoogleGram for webmasters..
GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:22 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey, the index is going to be coming out real soon, so I wanted to give people some idea of what to expect for this index. Of course it's bigger and deeper (yay!), but we've also put more of a focus on algorithmic improvements for spam issues. One resulting improvement with this index is better handling of expired domains--the authority for a domain will be reset when a domain expires, even though dangling links to the expired domain are still out on the web. We'll be rolling this change in over the next few months starting with this index.

Most webmasters won't notice much change, but I wanted to give folks some advance notice. If your toolbar display changes a little up or down--don't panic. :) The change I mentioned, plus things like having more pages crawled in our index, can affect the toolbar display. As always, the traffic and conversions you get matter more than how many green pixels the toolbar shows.

Over the next few months, I think you'll see more emphasis at Google on scalable algorithms rather than responding to individual spam reports--please set your expectations accordingly--but we are also putting more emphasis on reinclusion requests from webmasters.

As always, I'll try to be around to answer questions and offer advice.. :)

 

jady

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:24 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the update! Cant wait to have a look... :)

coconutz

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:26 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Looking forward to the new and improved index.

Birdman

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:27 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

You are doing a great job GoogleGuy. It is really good that you are interacting with designers and SEOs in this way. Thanks.

Alec Doggone

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:30 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Am I right in thinking then that if I register an expired and previously penalised domain, it'll start for me with a clean slate?

Thx.

rfgdxm1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:34 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

>One resulting improvement with this index is better handling of expired domains--the authority for a domain will be reset when a domain expires, even though dangling links to the expired domain are still out on the web.

Could you clarify sir what this means: "One resulting improvement with this index is better handling of expired domains--the authority for a domain will be reset when a domain expires, even though dangling links to the expired domain are still out on the web." My concern is the following. A really juicy domain name I have been lusting after expires. I thus keep checking every day waiting for it to released by the registrar so I can grab it. After say 45 days it is released and I snap it up. This domain no longer is expired. Would I be able to get this domain in the Google index because it is no longer in expired status?

Allergic

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:34 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nice feedback and great news! Thanks for your feed GoogleGuy.

Jane_Doe

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jane_doe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:39 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thank you this and the other GoogleGrams, GoogleGuy. I'm sure they are all much appreciated by everyone here.

diddlydazz

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:39 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

i guess soon means now then googleguy!

all systems go :O)

thanks for hitting the button!

good luck everyone!

Dazz

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 3:55 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

rfgdxm1, you can get that domain into Google; you just won't get credit for any pre-existing links. Alec_Doggone, glad you asked that. Right now the penalties can remain on a domain. So you'll want to do your research before you buy a domain. Check it out in other search engines, see what the Internet Archive had as the previous content for that domain, etc.

Hope that helps!
GoogleGuy

2_much

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:09 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Googleguy, but what if the new website is on the same topic?
For example, I've been watching over a beautiful meditation domain, and as soon as it's released I will pick it up to create a meditation site. So all of the backlinks will remain relevant.
Will all those links be ignored? Even if they are contextually relevant?
What about links from places like Yahoo and Dmoz, where you can't get another listing?
Plus, if you're already linked to from many authorities on the subject, it'll be very difficult to get more quality links!
Any clarifications would be appreciated.

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:16 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

When you register a domain for the first time, you won't get the old links for free. You'll have to get them the old-fashioned way. :)

chiyo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member chiyo us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:18 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sounds very sensible to me.

A domain therefore cannot be priced due to it's PR. Extremely sensible. But it can have a value due to the number of referrals it gets normally (incoming clicks) and it's brand equity and good will with CUSTOMERS.

If that is the idea, (and i may have misread) I think its a brilliant move, though those who buy domains, SEO them, and sell them for value added on the basis of Google PR (said or unsaid) may be disappointed Im sure.

2much does have a good point though..

>>if you're already linked to from many authorities on the subject, it'll be very difficult to get more quality links! <<

How would google handle this situation?

This may well have significant implications for the domain reselling industry.

mrguy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:22 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy,

Will the new algorithmic changes be more agressive about filtering out sites that have created numerous duplicate sites with different domains and then crosslinked to gain PR?

Or is this something that we should still submit through spam reports?

We ALL appreciate your input in this forum!

I ordered my Google T-Shirt and Hat so I can be a Google Guy too! ;)

JeremyL

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:26 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

the authority for a domain will be reset when a domain expires, even though dangling links to the expired domain are still out on the web

OK Im concerner. How are you deciding when a domain is expired? Are you just comparing whois and if the whois is different you say it has changed hands and all links before are worthless? If so what happens when I buy a website and the whois changes to me and the site stays the same or if I just change my whois to stop spammers and data miners? For example I just had godaddy.com move some of my domains to private registration so that all the whois info was changed. Will that have any effects?

Any clarification on what makes me loose my authority ranking would be apreciated.

jeremy goodrich

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:26 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

The renewed emphasis on 'reinclusions requests' sounds great. :) I've had a site for more than a year get spidered, with links, etc - but no listing in Google. :(

The bit about expired domains is interesting, I'm curious if this will be 'retroactive' or a 'forward looking' checker...? Meaning, for the dozens on dozens of domains I've seen that expired, and somebody change around, etc to be a whole new site - will those be dropped out now, or will they sill be there...?

GoogleGram - I like the sound of that. Keep 'em coming.

why2kit

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:26 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

So, GoogleGuy, the $$$ I just spent on buying expired domains with pr7 are wasted?

why2kit

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:32 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

So what happens if you have a site www.xyz.com and u change the registrar from netsol to brandx (to save money etc) do u then loose your pr?

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:36 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Whew, I stepped away to the update thread for a minute. Let me knock a few out quickly:

chiyo, you've got it exactly. There aren't any penalties for expired domains--they just don't get credit for pre-existing links. mrguy, if you ever see a problem, you can still fill out a spam report. JeremyL, we're using multiple sources of data stretching back to 2000 in order to cross-check. No one should get caught accidently. jeremy goodrich, certainly a "forward looking" checker makes sense. We do have enough data to go back quite a while retroactively though. Glad you like the GoogleGram idea. :) If you send an email to webmaster@google.com about that domain you mentioned in your post (and it's within our guidelines now), you can probably get it re-included. why2kit, I tried to gently hint several times that buying expired domains just for the PageRank wasn't a good long-term plan. Hopefully this info will help webmasters look for sites with good names or visitor traffic, because it won't help to try to buy an expired domain to get PageRank.

Okay, gotta go stretch my fingers now. :)

rfgdxm1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:39 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

>rfgdxm1, you can get that domain into Google; you just won't get credit for any pre-existing links.

Question GoogleGuy: HOW are you telling the pre-existing links from the new ones? Keeping a list of every page with an old link and remembering not to count it after each update?

JeremyL

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:41 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

JeremyL, we're using multiple sources of data stretching back to 2000 in order to cross-check. No one should get caught accidently.

So are you saying a website/domain changing owners but never actually EXPIRING can have the same effect? Or does the domain actually have to have no owner at one point to get nailed? I hate to say it but I'm really worried about this one as I have changed all of my whois recently on all my domains.

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:43 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

JeremyL, just changing your whois or registrar wouldn't cause a problem--don't worry. :) rfgdxm1, we are packrats at Google. We never seem to throw out information about the link structure of the web. :)

Edwin

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:48 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

So what happens if my domain expires on a Tuesday and I renew it on the following Friday? I'm well within the "safe buffer" that most Registrars allow forgetful people to renew within - but would it mean my site's link count gets reset to zero from Google's POV?

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 4:50 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think we're taking care of all the common cases correctly, Edwin--that's while it took a little while. But if anyone sees problems, I'm always happy to hear about it.

toolman

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 5:01 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>>>>I tried to gently hint several times that buying expired domains just for the PageRank wasn't a good long-term plan.

Actually I'm glad to see you guys do something about that. It was going to be a big snowball on down the mountain later on.

I just saw a site registered in Jan of this year with 1.3 million links. Curiously enough it's not an expired and it's also sitting number one. Perhaps Project AlgoBandaid isnt finished yet? ;)

why2kit

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 5:02 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the info GoogleGuy, now if u can just start the update so I can get a better pr and get some traffic to help pay for the domains name I purchased :)

Cheers

Richard

GoogleGuy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member googleguy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 5:07 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Richard, check some of the other threads--the update has started. toolman, it's started but it's not fully rolled out yet. Let me know if we don't catch it in a couple months. You are pretty expert at this, right? :)

[edited by: GoogleGuy at 5:10 am (utc) on Mar. 7, 2003]

teeceo

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 5:08 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

"JeremyL, we're using multiple sources of data stretching back to 2000 in order to cross-check."

Does this mean that all expired domains from 2000-2003 will lose there backlinks?

teeceo.

Alec Doggone

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 5:10 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the answers. All seems to make sense.

jeremy goodrich

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jeremy_goodrich us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 10036 posted 5:12 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lol, toolman - that was good. I'm sure with that many backlinks, it shouldn't be hard for GoogleGuy to figure out that you're talking about ME :)

He he. Doesn't Yahoo only have, what, 642K or something? So this would be double Yahoo...

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