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Domain Names Forum

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How has the addition of new TLDs altered your experience of the WWW?
Biz, .Info, .Travel, .EU.: Notice an improvement to the WWW since their launch?
Webwork




msg:688395
 6:13 pm on Mar 27, 2006 (gmt 0)

I haven't noticed a change.

I haven't noticed an improvement in my experience of the WWW.

Wasn't the addition of new TLDs supposed to have some positive effect on the public?

Wasn't the addition of new TLDs supported or promoted - in part - based upon some idea that there would be benefits?

Anyone care to tell me how the addition of new TLDs has improved your web surfing experience or your experience of the WWW in general?

Wise guys who wish to chime in about how you have made $X as a result of registering new TLDs and reselling them: IS that what was meant by all the declarations and announcements and mission statements and policy statements?

From what I've been reading about the sunshine stage of the .EU launch things are once again devolving to a land grab.

Is that as good as it will ever get with the addition of new TLDs? They same parties jockeying to grab the best real estate? Even if they start to build websites upon the new TLDs do we really advance by having the same persons/entities playing the same game each time?

New TLDs: Useless? Feckless? No net gain, except for domainers?

I say there is no proof that any of the recently added TLDs have accomplished what they were supposedly going to accomplish.

 

Lisa




msg:688425
 11:16 pm on Apr 4, 2006 (gmt 0)


Focus on other problems like spam instead of new TLDs

uh! ok, with that same logic, All you video game developers, focus on fighting writting a new OS that runs games. And all you bakers, focus on growing a better wheat so the bread tastes better. <Snip>

TLD makers don't solve the spam issue. Nor do bakers grow wheat.

[edited by: Webwork at 2:27 pm (utc) on April 5, 2006]
[edit reason] Charter [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

jmccormac




msg:688426
 11:42 pm on Apr 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

This thread was started with a negative slant. Ignorance of EU culture and how they will use .EU is horrible, it makes Americans look bad to judge so quick something they personally don't understand.
Lisa, there is no EU culture. Not all of us posting on this thread are American. In Europe, there is a distinct us and them relationship with the EU. National identity is still the dominant identity in the EU.

This is the best TLD since .COM! Not better then .COM but close.
I'm not convinced of this. It will be significant but how it is operated will determine its success. From what I've seen over the last few weeks, PPC parasites and bottom feeders have now become .eu registrars. So unless Eurid does something pretty drastic like eliminating them and their registrations (the regulations are there to prevent speculative and bad faith domain registrations), then .eu could turn into another gTLD cesspool.

.EU will be the second largest TLD in less then 7 years.
Again this is a good possibility but the competition is really from the ccTLDs. The .de and .uk ccTLDs are the main ones to watch. I worked out the preliminary maths to rebuild the .uk zone and the .de zone the other day while waiting for a secondary nameserver relationship mapping process to finish. The .eu is a level of complexity higher because it is competing with the existing ccTLDs in the EU and also with the other gTLDs.

Everyone in Europe that missed getting their ccTLD will try to get an .EU instead.
This particular argument was used in Ireland by IEDR (The Irish .ie domain registry) to push the .ie ccTLD domain. However it was not particularly successful. The number of Irish owned com/net/org/biz/info domains is always greater than the number of .ie domains. This problem is due to historically bad management of .ie ccTLD and the high price of .ie - though the price cut in January (down to a trade price of about 30 Euros) has increased the number of registrations of .ie domains to around 100 per day from the 40 to 60 domains it was running at before the cut. The big impact of .eu will be on the higher priced ccTLDs rather than the gTLDs. The price for a landrush .eu varies from around 12.50 Euros to 20 Euros.

If you are an American, well the only interest you would have as an investment or as leverage to get into the European market.
This is the part I am worried about. The gTLDs are dumps punctuated by developed websites. One of the most common pages is a coming soon or holding page. While the utilisation of the gTLDs might be in the 70% region, the actual use of the gTLDs (actual operational websites and mailservers) is probably below the 50% region. PPC parasites and speculators hitting a new gTLD could turn .eu into another .biz or .info. There could well be political pressure applied to Eurid to sort out any problems. (Just based on the Irish experience, the outcome of the incompetent management of .ie was that the policy and regulation process was stripped from IEDR and put under the government's communication regulatory authority.)

This eligibility criteria from the EUrid site is particularly important:
First : are you eligible?

Whoever wants to apply for a .eu domain name, should meet one of the following elegibility criteria :

1. undertakings having their registered office, central administration or principal place of business within the European Community;

2. organisations established within the European Community without prejudice to the application of national law;

3. natural persons resident within the European Community.

Based on this, there could be a hidden danger for a non-EU person or business registering a domain for speculative or bad faith purposes.

From a European perspective, this is HUGE!
Future tense? :) I'll believe it when I see it.

Regards...jmcc

gpmgroup




msg:688427
 11:53 pm on Apr 4, 2006 (gmt 0)

No need to wait till 2009, Webwork, that's already part of Tralliance Corp's grand scheme.

There's also, on their website (which is on the World Wide Web at tralliance dot travel) a pdf press release answering exactly the points we've been making in this thread.

Have you used the directory? Hopefully its early days and things are going to get a lot better. At the moment its slow, clunky and sparse! And why does it need a gTLD? Why not just build a website like travel.wand.com ;)

I couldn't see in the press release where it mentioned the recent sale of 127 .travel names to a single entity names including major cities like dallas.travel and houston.travel. Weren't the rules originally quite strict on matching your exact business name?

FireHorse




msg:688428
 12:28 pm on Apr 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

<Snip>

I said the internet authorities WORLDWIDE should be spending their time and money on the issues I mentioned. Combined, they control the internet's functions and licensc its current use and any future changes, so they DO have ther power to improve the state of affairs.

They are not 2nd hand merchants, like bakers, who have to accept whatever is available in order to perform their function.

"TLD makers" can't create TLD's out of thin air, Lisa.

[edited by: Webwork at 2:25 pm (utc) on April 5, 2006]
[edit reason] Comment about the business issues, not the members [/edit]

Martin40




msg:688429
 5:09 pm on Apr 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

Lisa, there is no EU culture.

As the author of an art history website I tend to disagree a tad.....
One of the interesting things about America is it's diversity. Does that mean there is no culture? :-)

National identity is still the dominant identity in the EU

That doesn't keep Europeans from registering .com.

PPC parasites and speculators hitting a new gTLD could turn .eu into another .biz or .info.

Domainers always scoop up the premium domains, which the average webmaster isn't interested in anyway.
People that buy a domain for the first time are usually interested in registering their own name. When they get more professional they will want to register some cool and catchy phrase. When they really get to understand domains they will want to register actual keyphrases (the premium domains), but few people get to that phase. The domainers enable small ccTLDs to get off the ground by registering premium domains.

As for .travel, why did ICANN approve that TLD in the first place? Because they were scared out of their wits of New.net, which was one of the fastest growing registries for several years. It's just a fact that there's a real demand for themed domains, but....if you talk to a bunch of webmasters with successful travel sites, then few will be interested in .travel and why would they be? They already have their .com up and running. New TLDs are for the new sites, not the old....
It takes a whole new generation of websites (and companies) to make any new TLD successful. In the meantime domainers help to keep the TLD afloat.
There is some analogy with the stock market. Most people don't buy stocks for the dividend, but to speculate, which helps businesses to fund their projects. Of course domains are for use, not speculation, but on the whole I don't think the influence of domainers is bad.

jmccormac




msg:688430
 5:42 pm on Apr 5, 2006 (gmt 0)

As the author of an art history website I tend to disagree a tad.....
One of the interesting things about America is it's diversity. Does that mean there is no culture? :-)
You really don't think I'm going to argue about American culture. :) Still though, there is no distinct EU culture yet in the way that there is a clearly identifiable American culture.

That doesn't keep Europeans from registering .com.
True but then again there is a healty ccTLD registration in most EU countries. The .us ccTLD is not quite as successful as, for example .uk or .de ccTLDs.

The domainers enable small ccTLDs to get off the ground by registering premium domains.
Actually you are wrong on this point. The small ccTLDs get off the ground by providing business owners with the opportunity to get their own domain - a domain which probably would not be available in .com or the other gTLDs. The domainers (speculators) and PPC parasites (the bulk domain squatters) generally tend to only enter the equation when a ccTLD is nearing maturity and has reached a critical mass of registered domains.

As for .travel, why did ICANN approve that TLD in the first place? Because they were scared out of their wits of New.net, which was one of the fastest growing registries for several years.
I don't have a high opinion of ICANN or the perpetual committee joiners who seem to infest such operations. New.net did have the capability to fracture the whole domain name system but business themed gTLDs seems to be more like a dot.bomb idea - just look at how pro.ie developed (or failed to).

It's just a fact that there's a real demand for themed domains, but....if you talk to a bunch of webmasters with successful travel sites, then few will be interested in .travel and why would they be? They already have their .com up and running.
That's the problem that all new gTLDs have - they are trying to enter a market with a massive number of pre-existing domains. It is a hard sell until the gTLD attains some level of credibility.

It takes a whole new generation of websites (and companies) to make any new TLD successful. In the meantime domainers help to keep the TLD afloat.
I don't think that this idea of domainers keeping the gTLD afloat is valid because of the potential damage it does at startup phase. By squatting good domains, they could act as a deterrent to development. If the PPC parasites register piles of domains and the registry does not delete these threats, then it could reach a tipping point where the gTLD loses any credibility and becomes just another .biz or .info - a minnow compared to the .com whale.

There is some analogy with the stock market. Most people don't buy stocks for the dividend, but to speculate, which helps businesses to fund their projects. Of course domains are for use, not speculation, but on the whole I don't think the influence of domainers is bad.
You could also argue that bad money drives out good.

Say for the sake of argument, a .art gTLD was established. Would you be happy to see the names of great artists and composers squatted by PPC parasites or having sites that detail the work of the great artists? :)

Regards...jmcc

Martin40




msg:688431
 9:21 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

You really don't think I'm going to argue about American culture. :)

Why not?

Still though, there is no distinct EU culture yet in the way that there is a clearly identifiable American culture.

Sir, there are several millennia of European history...

The domainers (speculators) and PPC parasites (the bulk domain squatters) generally tend to only enter the equation when a ccTLD is nearing maturity and has reached a critical mass of registered domains.

You may want to check the availability of some premium domains of small TLDs. Domains like business, shopping, hosting and what have you tend to be unavailable in almost every TLD, long before the TLD reaches maturity. PPC-ers won't be interested in small TLDs anyway, because direct navigation is negligible. It are the speculators that register premium domains in small TLDs.

I don't have a high opinion of ICANN or the perpetual committee joiners who seem to infest such operations. New.net did have the capability to fracture the whole domain name system but business themed gTLDs seems to be more like a dot.bomb idea - just look at how pro.ie developed (or failed to).

I'm not saying ICANN is doing a bad job, I just think their .travel approval was New.net inspired.

I don't think that this idea of domainers keeping the gTLD afloat is valid because of the potential damage it does at startup phase. By squatting good domains, they could act as a deterrent to development.

In my opinion the horror stories surrounding .biz and .info are "known" by a small circle. To the general public there is nothing wrong with them. It depends on whether you choose to emphasize the good or the bad examples. I, for one, am impressed at the way .info is developing.
Say for the sake of argument, a .art gTLD was established. Would you be happy to see the names of great artists and composers squatted by PPC parasites or having sites that detail the work of the great artists? :)

Well, mondrian.com is used by a web design agency, rembrandt.com by teeth whitening. It goes with the territory. If you want a great name, you have to be quick or else pay up. Who's to say that teeth whitening has less right to Rembrandt than an art historian? They even have a Rembrandt trademark. Vangogh.com is a souvenir shop, offering Van Gogh umbrellas. If I kick the bucket any time soon, sell my name to a PPC-er, please.

jmccormac




msg:688432
 9:56 pm on Apr 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Why not?
Because I'm more a techie and I don't know enough about American culture.

Sir, there are several millennia of European history...
Yes but one is the culture of a country with many parts and the other is the culture of many countries.

You may want to check the availability of some premium domains of small TLDs.
The small, unmangaged ccTLDs would have had these domains registered but the managed ccTLDs would not be as active in this respect.

It are the speculators that register premium domains in small TLDs
The speculators generally target the generic domains but these domains are very hard to commercialise from a branding point of view.

I'm not saying ICANN is doing a bad job, I just think their .travel approval was New.net inspired.
The kind of perpetual committee joiners that infest such operations like ICANN rarely move unless acted upon by an external force.

In my opinion the horror stories surrounding .biz and .info are "known" by a small circle. To the general public there is nothing wrong with them.
The general public are going to be very upset with the mess that .eu has become. The PPC parasites and squatters have really hammered .eu today and it wasn't helped by the incompetent fools in Eurid totally underestimating the stress of a rush of registrations. Whois servers were down today and there were widespread problems in registering domains.

Who's to say that teeth whitening has less right to Rembrandt than an art historian. They even have a Rembrandt trademark...
Commerce or art? One brightens and the other enlightens?

I'm paying $160 p/y for art.gg...
But a dedicated art gtld would be a good thing.

Regards...jmcc

FireHorse




msg:688433
 11:26 am on Apr 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

.EU is just another doimain name suffix that will add very little, if anything, to the WWW experience for the vast majority of users, because its creation emnates from ill-thought out and faulty ideology.

[edited by: Webwork at 5:27 pm (utc) on April 10, 2006]
[edit reason] WebmasterWorld focus is the business of the www, not politics [/edit]

Lobo




msg:688434
 11:15 pm on Apr 10, 2006 (gmt 0)

I wished I'd dived in to this thread well in the begining .. but for my 2 cents or is that euros?

In fact I've changed my mind, lol don't get me started ...

jmccormac




msg:688435
 4:10 am on Apr 11, 2006 (gmt 0)

Hindsight is wonderful. :) It is a shame that EUrid and the Commission and their advisors took it to the extreme by having their collective heads up their asses when it came to both the technical (the system failures during landrush) and the business (fake registrars who were only squatters) issues.

The incompetence of Eurid and the Commission and their advisors has, unless some drastic actions are taken against those who gamed the system, has potentially turned .eu into a version of .biz or .info. It is only the geographical aspect of the the gTLD that may save it from being a complete mess. But there is the possibility that any domain offered for sale could be revoked due to the Bad Faith/Speculation clause in the regulations. As could any domain that is pointed to a PPC page where a legitimate website in another gTLD exists.

It needs a high profile termination to regain industry confidence and the best way would be for EUrid to cancel every registration by fake registrars. It would also have to cut the dispute resolution fee to a reasonable level. The .eu domain is the European domain - let EUrid pay for the dispute resolution fee out of the money it has gouged.

Regards...jmcc

StupidScript




msg:688436
 10:17 pm on Apr 18, 2006 (gmt 0)

Late, but ...

We eagerly await a new crop of bogus, cookie-cutter affiliate sites to drain our ad budgets! As many have noted, this follows the recent success in this area demonstrated by the .tv, .biz and .info TLDs. Frankly, we are getting tired of getting clicks from qualified visitors and anticipate many good times ahead from the hoardes that will undoubtedly take advantage of this stateless new designation. C'mon Serbia! Get going!

If .com wasn't indiscriminate enough for the European Community, then doggone it let's push for stTLDs like .california, .newyork and so on. Those should really supply some especially good traffic!

I dunno ... I guess I just enjoy a healthy dose of memememe in the development of Internet standards. Y'know, "My site/country demands to be singled out because it's so important!" Yeah. THAT's the world wide web we've come to know and love. It is no longer enough to be a member of the global community ... now we can pressure the powers-that-be into carving out a little personal identity space for any entity that wails loud enough.

Pretty soon we'll have the .comWeb and the .euWeb, just so a surfer knows in which country the domain's owner lives in ... if they're in the .euWeb ... but not the .comWeb which will still be actually "world wide". THAT'll be convenient.

<note>In case I'm being misunderstood at this point ... I'm not in favor of fragmenting things any more than they are already. I think the .eu suffix is a waste of time and energy and the harbinger of more fragmentation to come. If the EU can demand it, why can't Morrocco?</note>

runaround




msg:688437
 10:37 pm on Apr 22, 2006 (gmt 0)

I cannot believe some of the arguments being put forward as legitimate towards joe soap buying(with his own money) a simple .eu(or whatever) domain. If joe soap buys more than one he is labelled a cybersquatter and if he does the awful thing of adding a ppc script to help pay his website, he is damned for all eternity.
Have you guys forgotten how you started? Does this mean that domain company's are cybersquatters? after all they are buying more than one domain, or what about some massive company buying up ALL the names, are they also cybersquatters or can they be excused because some shadowy figure is lurking in the bushes waiting to grab a domain name?
With respect to .eu domains, I was under the impression these .eu names are to encourage euro countries to establish their own names on the European market, apart from the obvious money making machine of the .com this was the only way left for Europe to do this as all possible derivatives proceeding .com have already been swallowed.
The .eu is intended for something like 32 countries and more countries joining as they become qualified, and the millions of people and business's are uncountable.

jmccormac




msg:688438
 5:22 am on Apr 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

If joe soap buys more than one he is labelled a cybersquatter and if he does the awful thing of adding a ppc script to help pay his website, he is damned for all eternity.
Not quite a damnation but it does result, typically in search engine limbo. All it has to do is reach the tipping point where it corrupts search engine results and these sites will be consigned to search engine oblivion. Many of these sites have an SE death penalty applied as part of the PR type analysis. Tweaking those rules would be trivial because of the vastly different characteristics of such a site when compared to a legitimate, content-rich site.

Have you guys forgotten how you started?
No. I owned domains before the web. :) And generally when I register domains it is to develop sites. Admittedly some sites take a bit longer to develop than others. But that is the difference between a speculative registration and a genuine registration. Squatters don't buy domains to develop but to merely sell on to others who may develop the domain as a site.

what about some massive company buying up ALL the names, are they also cybersquatters
Ironically this is the major problem with the way the morons in EUrid have handled the .eu mess. These large squatter operations have registered hundreds of thousands domains in .eu through paper companies. (If the figure of 700 bogus .eu registrars is correct (and it now looks to be a bit low) that would equate to a worst case of 700,000 squatted .eu domains.) The Commission (the bozos above EUrid in the heirarchy of incompentence, has instructed EUrid to look into this problem of speculative and abusive registrations and where necessary, terminate registrars and registrations.

With respect to .eu domains, I was under the impression these .eu names are to encourage euro countries to establish their own names on the European market
That's the line that the bozos in Brussels have been feeding the gullible "technology" journalists in the press. The reality is that a very healthy ccTLD (.uk , .de etc) domain business exists in Europe and the second biggest TLD on the net is .de at over 8 million doms - the German ccTLD. It is closely followed by the UK ccTLD with around 4.8 million doms.

The .eu is intended for something like 32 countries and more countries joining as they become qualified, and the millions of people and business's are uncountable.
That creates an even bigger problem because many of these businesses will find that the .eu version of their domains have been squatted by these large, organised, squatter operations that gamed the simpleton designed .eu system.

Regards...jmcc

jmccormac




msg:688439
 5:31 am on Apr 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

<note>In case I'm being misunderstood at this point ... I'm not in favor of fragmenting things any more than they are already. I think the .eu suffix is a waste of time and energy and the harbinger of more fragmentation to come. If the EU can demand it, why can't Morrocco?</note>
You do know that there is life outside the gTLDs? :) There are over 200 Country Code TLDs. Morroco is one of them (.ma).

Regards...jmcc

runaround




msg:688440
 11:36 am on Apr 23, 2006 (gmt 0)

Not quite a damnation but it does result, typically in search engine limbo. All it has to do is reach the tipping point where it corrupts search engine results and these sites will be consigned to search engine oblivion. Many of these sites have an SE death penalty applied as part of the PR type analysis. Tweaking those rules would be trivial because of the vastly different characteristics of such a site when compared to a legitimate, content-rich site.

Sorry to suggest, that your comments smack of frustration with Search Engines who rely on advertising for their major income.
Only major engine changes have the hope of changing your thoughts and suggestions, but without advertising revenue I doubt this will happen.
regards.:)

jmccormac




msg:688441
 1:28 pm on Apr 25, 2006 (gmt 0)

Sorry to suggest, that your comments smack of frustration with Search Engines who rely on advertising for their major income.

No. It is from building country level search engine indices and having to clean out the <snip>. You'll find many search engine operators consider PPC landing pages in the same light.

Regards...jmcc

[edited by: Webwork at 1:31 pm (utc) on April 25, 2006]
[edit reason] Charter [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

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