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Sites that ban you for doorways/ cloaking
grnidone



 
Msg#: 3 posted 7:42 pm on Jun 30, 2000 (gmt 0)

Just so I have it clear...what sites will ban your site for having a cloaking page? How about doorways?

I have a cloaking page I just put up, and I need to know if I need to pull it. I don't want to get banned.

-G

 

Air

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 5:20 pm on Jul 1, 2000 (gmt 0)

grnidone,

All of the engines have the potential to take some action on your cloaked page, ranging from dropping the page from their index to banning the domain.

Do it right, and for now you will be fine on all of them.

The following are just guidelines I follow and not directed to anyone in particular. For anyone interested here goes ...

Doing it right:
=Do not cloak many pages to one visitor page,
keep the relationship one to one as much as possible. The only exception is where you can have a few pages that remain highly relevant to the target page.

=Do not be tempted to use anyone else's code, ever.

= Do match title and description of your cloaked and visitor page, including the first sentence or so when feeding engines that do not use meta description. This avoids the snoopers who like to climb the rankings by removing their competition.

= Do link your cloaked pages as if they were real pages (which they are), and take advantage of theming, link popularity, etc.

= Be courteous to those you link to. If you show a link to a site on your visitor page(s), give them a link on your cloaked page too.

= Do not use links on your cloaked page(s) that do not exist on your human page(s). This will make your page show up for searches of that domain and they'll wonder why. Plus it's not nice.

= Always let you clients know the guidelines you will follow if cloaking is involved, be careful with any engine targetted pages they supply.

= Cloaking is not a shortcut, it is a longcut, use it to compensate for search engine spidering deficiencies not for quick hits, and be prepared to do more work not less.

= Relax, you'll have the odd visit from a spider not in your list and it will get your visitor page. Follow the above guidelines and take it in stride.

= Be your own experiment, you have no way of knowing what anyone else did that got dropped, banned, etc, use your own results as a guide.

= Stay cool, keep your chin up, and have some fun, it used to be fun didn't it??

[marker Air cloaking faq]

Edited by: Air

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 5:53 pm on Jul 2, 2000 (gmt 0)

Whoa, that is a nice faq. We'll have to keep this thread around for reference. Thanks Air.

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 12:16 pm on Jul 3, 2000 (gmt 0)

Back to the original question. I don't think any of the se's 'ban' you for it. Most of them will just bury you in the rankings. Alta is the only engine that has ever played with banning. The rest just mysteriously put you a down in the barrel.

Whether they do it for cloaked pages is open for debate. I think some are cross checking. Inktomi would have no other reason to be checking page without 'slurp' in the agent name.

Air

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 2:26 pm on Jul 3, 2000 (gmt 0)

One thing to consider is that when Inktomi shows up with non Slurp UserAgent it uses old IP addresses which have belonged to Ink for a long time.

Could their target be javascript re-directs?

DaveAtIFG

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 8:20 pm on Jul 6, 2000 (gmt 0)

grnidone - I'm 1000% certain Ink will bury your listing and drop it repeatedly if they suspect cloaking. And they are more aggressively identifying cloaked pages then the other SEs, hence much tougher to cloak for. Do your own experiments with a "sacrificial page" or avoid cloaking here altogether for the near term...

Air

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 11:02 pm on Jul 6, 2000 (gmt 0)

Here is the pattern for Ink, they spider the same page in close succession using different IP's in about half of those spiderings. My experience is that if the same page is retrieved then your are fine.

If some of those IP's are not detected as Inktomi and a different page is served to one or more of the "Slurps" then they will drop it most of the time, but not always.

In every case resubmitting has put the page back where it was.

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 11:55 pm on Jul 6, 2000 (gmt 0)

It is really a bummer with Ink too. I always fed ink a touch more optimized page than I did normal users. I needed to do that just to get around some of the inheirent problems with a particular site design (sew). Normally, I was just turning off the default template and serving up the guts of the page without any fluff. That worked great, but now out of the question.

lizzie

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 3:58 am on Jul 22, 2000 (gmt 0)

I looked up "bread " in Yahoo and saw that "Bread of Life"
has over 1000 pages. I'm not sure if they used cloaking
but would love to know how they did it.

redzone

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 9:32 pm on Jul 22, 2000 (gmt 0)

Air, we've been at it for a few years now, and until the AV problems starting late last summer, we've never had any problems.

We started IP/agent delivery in very early 98 because we were tired of individuals stealing our Excite pages. Then with our client base spending thousands on their web sites, it made sense to let the clients leave their pages alone, and server up our own page to crawlers.

But:

1. We will NOT target keywords that are not relevant to the client's content.
2. We remain very low key about our technology, even to our clients. We never use words like "cloaking", it just sounds underhanded...
3. We only optimize one URL per targeted keyword phrase per engine. (GREED is the fastest way to getting nailed, and there is plenty of business around, even if you do it right)...
4. We do not use IP only delivery. Always use both IP/UA.. (If a URL get's human reviewed from an IP within an engine's IP block, you are nailed to a cross... I'd rather lose a few submissions and catch the new UA, then feed human eyes one of our pages, rather than the client's page. (We do monitor our noreferrer logs quite often, and all noreferrers are written to a seperate text file for easy viewing on the fly.
5. With Google directory popularity, PPC engines, and site popularity, IP delivery is no longer as important, outside of Inktomi and AV... But we still utilize it for everything, as our system has been refined over the past few years, for quick keyword URL creation.....

lizzie

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 1:58 pm on Jul 23, 2000 (gmt 0)

Look up "bread" and see "Our Daily Bread" in Yahoo with over 2400
pages listed. Did they use cloaking to accomplish this?
Thanks!

grnidone



 
Msg#: 3 posted 12:25 pm on Jul 24, 2000 (gmt 0)

Lizzie:

Yahoo is a directory, not a search engine. Directories don't spider pages, human beings actually place sites into the categories.

Check out [searchenginewatch.com...] for the basics. That will bring you up to speed quickly. It is an excellent resource and one worth paying for. There is a lot of information that is free as well.

-G

redzone

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 1:03 pm on Jul 24, 2000 (gmt 0)

grnidone:
I'm sure Lizzie was referring to the "Google" portion of Yahoo. The web page results... :)

Air

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 3 posted 4:06 pm on Jul 24, 2000 (gmt 0)

Yes, lizzie did mean the web page results - :)

lizzie,
I checked for you but I don't see the same results for "bread" theat you describe, unless they are farther down in the results (I only went through the first 300 or so results).

But on the one you sent me an e about - "Stir Fry Skillets" I see exactly what you mean.

The reason you see so many entries is because the sites listed chose to use Point & Shop as their e-commerce provider, you can read more about them at [onlinestore.pointshop.com...]

So not cloaking, just different sites with the same content because they are basically template driven.

Edited by: Air

grnidone



 
Msg#: 3 posted 1:32 pm on Jul 25, 2000 (gmt 0)

DOH!
-G

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