homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.161.240.10
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Home / Forums Index / WebmasterWorld / Ecommerce
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: buckworks

Ecommerce Forum

    
fraudulent transactions within the uk
victim of fraud, what is the best medicine?
gibbon




msg:643246
 6:33 pm on Mar 26, 2003 (gmt 0)


As with many merchants we suffer from a small percentage of credit card fraud.

We put all the measures in place that we can, CV2, AVS etc but still some get through the net!

Does anyone have any advice on how best to follow up when fraud has occurred.

Mostly these transactions are within the UK, we have informed the police but they are not too interested (much easier to catch motorists). Is there anything else that we can do?

 

Receptional Andy




msg:643247
 6:35 pm on Mar 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

The best place for this kind of advice is an online fraud group like merchant 911 (search google).

I joined some of these groups a while back, and have foun them invaluable.

gsx




msg:643248
 9:09 pm on Mar 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

Contact the police internet fraud squad. Every area has one assigned (though it may not be your local police as there isn't enough of them yet).

Batch all the fraud together and post it to them every six or twelve months. Believe me, they will investigate addresses or names that pop up regularly. They will ignore the one-offs.

Your evidence could just be the icing on the cake to take someone to court. They even took a statement from me last year for a 3600 fraud, small in their eyes, but the address had cropped up on many different suspicions.

curlykarl




msg:643249
 1:23 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

"Contact the police internet fraud squad"

And what a waste of time they are :(

I have had two cases of fraud so far this year, Mr Policeman has told me that there is not really a lot they can do, even though on one of them I have

Name
Address
Phone number
I.P Number
Email address
A signed delivery note from Securicor
Copies of all emails exchanged prior to the purchase

I was told

"we don't involve the fraud squad unless the amount is greater than 15K"

Haven't heard anything from Mr Policeman for ages, I think I'll give him a ring this afternoon and moan untill his ears bleed :)

The law in this country stinks

nuff said

gsx




msg:643250
 4:54 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

You've had two cases and you expect them to do something?

Put yourself in my position, more than 2 per day, day in day out. Every morning a new batch of fraud and they still were not interested.

They are interested if an address is ALREADY on their records (i.e. they have found stolen property there and could not trace it etc...)

Receptional Andy




msg:643251
 5:37 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hence my advice above. In my experience the responsibility for preventing fraud (rightly or wrongly) lies with the merchant, and so taking a proactive approach to prevent the transactions before they happen is the only real option.

engine




msg:643252
 5:46 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Are we talking about shipments to addresses other than the cardholder's address?

curlykarl




msg:643253
 7:22 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

"You've had two cases and you expect them to do something? "

Of course I do, crime is crime no matter how petty.

"In my experience the responsibility for preventing fraud (rightly or wrongly) lies with the merchant,"

I agree, but crooks always seem to find a way round it

"Are we talking about shipments to addresses other than the cardholder's address?"

We had no way of checking before, we used to use the PDQ machine in the shop, you just punch in the card number.

All it does is check that the card is not reported stolen and that funds are available.

From the 1st of this month we have moved on to EPDQ, it is more secure, but even so, there is still no guarantee.

It really makes my blood boil! :(

The last one we had very nearly tipped me over the edge, I was so close to jacking the job in, the grief I get of my boss is unreal.

Something really does need to be done about it if e-business is going to succeed. I think the banks should make more of an effort to support us, after all we are making them plenty of money

Receptional Andy




msg:643254
 7:28 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

>> crooks always seem to find a way round it

If you get on an anti-fraud list you can be informed about known fraud IPs etc. and block these pre-sale.

Match IPs to countries, lookup addressess etc. In this way you can minimise fraud to a massive level. Sure, you may lose a couple of genuine sales, but the fraudulent ones cost a whole lot more.

Fraudsters can always find ways around any security measure, but most are lazy. Why persist with a secure and fraud-aware site when there's an insecure site a click away?

If would be wrong to ignore the economics of the situation. How much would it cost to investigate your 2 fraud attempts with very little chance of success compared to the many other types of crime?

gsx




msg:643255
 9:38 pm on Mar 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

"You've had two cases and you expect them to do something?"
"Of course I do, crime is crime no matter how petty."

They would never get to you, because if they did something for every fraud attempt I got, they would not have time to see you.

Everytime they attempt a fraud and the police investigate they have to take a statement from you. I don't know if you have given a statement before, but I have given two and one took one and a half hours and another took two hours.

The police - and you - do not have time for this. I certainly don't have 15 hours per week to give statements.

Using a PDQ machine is one way of closing your eyes to fraud on the internet and hoping it never happens to you.

I am afraid it is your responsibility to stop any fraud orders. (It should be the card processing companies, but that's another story.)

Crazy_Fool




msg:643256
 12:52 am on Mar 29, 2003 (gmt 0)


"You've had two cases and you expect them to do something? "
Of course I do, crime is crime no matter how petty.

i wholeheartedly agree - crime is crime and should be investigated.


They would never get to you, because if they did something for every fraud attempt I got, they would not have time to see you.

i agree with that too. it's unfortunate, disappointing, disgraceful etc that the police will not investigate small crimes because they don't have the resources.

but we don't have to rely on the police to do all the investigating and we don't have to rely on the CPS to handle every prosecution. if a group of merchants get together, they can share information, investigate fraudulent orders and trace the criminals, then either hand over more detailed information to the police or take out a private prosecution.

merchants already share information on merchant911.org and early-warning.org.uk - all it needs is for people to volunteer to go that little bit further and do some investigation.

gsx




msg:643257
 9:56 am on Mar 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

"if a group of merchants get together, they can share information"

Unfortunately in the UK, this is more of a problem: Data Protection Act. I am sure someone knows of a workaround.

P.S. Yes, I agree that they should be investigated, but resources are the problem - so they have to set limits. I have just given a statement regarding an 8,300,000 fraud scheme (that took the guy 6 months to get) and the police have to take a minimum of 2000 statements. They have one person working on the case. "At least two more years" he said, but they've already taken a year. Three years to solve 6 months of fraud? That's normal - even for the large amount, apparently.

nutsandbolts




msg:643258
 6:40 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

Have people tried using early-warning.org.uk?

gibbon




msg:643259
 8:54 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

yes, signed up for a months trial recently. All it looks to be is a database of spam-fraud emails.

My jurys still out regarding its substance/usefulness - ditto merchant911

Gibbon

Receptional Andy




msg:643260
 8:55 pm on Apr 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>ditto merchant911

The site itself is not vrey well presented, but the alert and chat lists are very helpful.

livio




msg:643261
 11:25 am on Apr 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

also a good one : MAF (Merchants against fraud)

[merchantsagainstfraud.com...]

Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / WebmasterWorld / Ecommerce
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved