We are having the same issue.
While cruising the "I hate PayPal" sites can be informative, it also gives a very one-sided picture. Since the only people that post there are those that feel they have been shafted by PayPal, about the best you can get from them is what NOT to do (and wonder why some people do such dumb things).
We've been using PayPay for several years as an additional method of payment. Payments through PayPal represent maybe 1% of our overall payments online.
So far, no problems with them.
The main problems come from users who enter all their credit card information on our form then click the "Pay through PayPal.com" button instead of the "Pay with Credit Card" even though the 2 sections are separated by space and color.
We are going to start taking PayPal in 2-3 weeks, initially only for small orders on a trial basis I think.
Not sure how to handle it yet, but some items we cannot sell via paypal because it will not figure shipping costs (too heavy and/or large), and PP limits the amount you can add to an order for shipping.
We have been taking all the standard cards for years, so I don't really expect PP to add much in sales, but who knows?
|some items we cannot sell via paypal because it will not figure shipping costs (too heavy and/or large), and PP limits the amount you can add to an order for shipping. |
You might not be able to use the shipping options in your PayPal account Profile to calculate your shipping costs if they are based on weight or box size. However, there is no set limit on the amount you can add to a payment for the shipping and handling costs. (For example, I could set up a PayPal Buy Now button for a $5 item and charge $100 for shipping and handling, and PayPal would still process the payment.)
How do you currently calculate shipping costs for your customers who pay by credit card? If you are able to calculate the total for these customers before they finalize their payment, you should be able to do the same for your PayPal customers. If you are using an HTML form POST to pass the payment information to PayPal, you would need to calculate the shipping costs first, and pass them in with the form using the "shipping" variable.
If you need to calculate shipping based on a customer's shipping location, you might want to try using PayPal's Express Checkout option instead. With Express Checkout, the customer is first transferred to PayPal to login and retrieve their shipping information, and is transferred back to your site to finalize the payment. You can adjust the final total of the payment after the customer is transferred back from PayPal, based on the shipping address you receive from PayPal. Express Checkout is based on APIs instead of an HTML form, so it requires some knowledge of a programming or scripting language (SDKs are available for .NET, PHP, and other languages). Visit the PayPal Integration Center for more information and to download SDKs.
According to the PayPal TOS, the most you can ADD per order that has already been placed for shipping is $75 or 15%, whichever is higher.
The problem is that we have a lot of large and/or heavy items, like batteries etc, that need to go freight, or oversized and the UPS shipping program will not figure them correctly.
So right now our only option seems to be to not allow those items to be purchased with PayPal.
For example, a recent order we got for DHL to the Bahamas for some emergency repair parts for a yacht cost $900 or so for the parts, $600+ for the shipping...
|the most you can ADD per order that has already been placed |
So you are trying to charge the shipping amount separately, after the customer has already made the purchase? (Do you do the same with customers who pay you by credit card? You are unable to calculate and display the full or estimated shipping cost at the time of purchase?)
Where in the TOS did you see the limit on shipping amounts? I'm wondering whether this is part of the eBay TOS or a PayPal policy.
If you are processing payments as Authorizations with a later Capture, then you may be limited in how much you can capture above the original Authorization amount. In that case, it would be best to process an Authorization with an estimated shipping amount so you could still capture the exact shipping amount even if it was a bit higher than the estimate. In all cases, you should make your shipping policies as clear as possible to your customers to avoid complaints and chargebacks after the payment is processed.
|So you are trying to charge the shipping amount separately, after the customer has already made the purchase? (Do you do the same with customers who pay you by credit card? You are unable to calculate and display the full or estimated shipping cost at the time of purchase?) |
Yes we are.
We process all orders offline specifically for that reason. Well, that and the fact that we get a better rate from our local bank than from any online processors.
We would have no problem doing the PayPal stuff all online for stuff that fits into the standard shipping area.
The local bank is giving you a card-present rate, in other words, you have to be holding the card in your hand to get that rate, yes?
The thread seems to have evolved into a Paypal functionality and features discussion. I was actually more interested in whether or not people are happy to use Paypal or does it frighten them away?
I always look for a site that takes Paypal as I know where my card details are going and trust them to be secure, I will only buy from a mom&pop type of store if they take Paypal.
Just my view.
|The local bank is giving you a card-present rate, in other words, you have to be holding the card in your hand to get that rate, yes? |
We have two rates - present and not present. The present rate we get is 1.12%, not present is 1.7%.
Best we ever got offered from an online was 2.2%
But back to PayPal..
For a while PayPal had kind of a shady reputation, but it appears that since Ebay took them over they have gotten a lot more respectable.
Considering that probably half the people now buying online have never seen a time when PP was NOT respectable, I would think that the effect would be neutral.
I think would be a negative effect is if you took nothing BUT PayPal.
Has anyone here used Paypal only (including the Account Optional feature) and then either:
1. Upgraded to Paypal Website Pro or
2. Added or replaced Paypal with a traditional merchant account?
Which one? Was there an increase in sales? What is your estimate of how much--due to this change in payment methods?
Are there any generally acceptable estimates of the size of this effect?
Can anyone offer stats on the uptake of Paypal v trad merchant account where both are offered?
I stay away from PayPal and will never use them to accept payments. I will not do business with anyone that only accepts PayPal.
|Can anyone offer stats on the uptake of Paypal v trad merchant account where both are offered? |
I have several sites selling actual goods, I use a merchant account but everyone has the option for PP as well, wanted to cover all bases, I also sell through several other big reseller sites.
Over several years, and to date, not one person has chosen PP over merchant!
I have only ever taken PP on ebay
Many webmasters seem fanatically for or against PP and how it works etc.
I take the view that what we think is not the issue, how PP works etc is not the big issue, what really matters is the buyers perception.
PP is inextricably linked with ebay, it is also, by definition, the choice of amateurs and part-timers.
It offers great benefits for some but if you are seriously in business, and wish to be taken as so, you have to be able to process your own cards on your own site I believe.
"the choice of amateurs and part-timers"
Paypal is VERY well trusted - as its 96,000,000 million account holders can attest. It is an excellent way to get paid instantly as such a large percentage of people already have a PayPal account, and those that don't can sign up and pay you in seconds.
BUT - it should not be your only method of accepting payments. There is another excellent resource called NOCHEX which has the big advantage of people being able to make a secure payment to you instanly WITHOUT having to sign up for an account as they would with PayPal.
Between the two systems you can take practically ALL credit cards.
[edited by: lorax at 7:57 pm (utc) on Feb. 22, 2006]
[edit reason] No URLs please [/edit]
we have both credit cards and paypal. Paypal accounts for 7.5% of the total transactions. I think its worth considering that a) Paypal users dont need a card, and b) Credit cards return errors (ie do not convert the sale) for all sorts of reasons
|people being able to make a secure payment to you instanly WITHOUT having to sign up for an account as they would with PayPal. |
PayPal already offers an Account Optional checkout, so customers can pay with a credit card without creating a PayPal account.
Paypal is definitely "mom & pop". However, we do have a paypal option on our website only because there are a few people out there that use it to make online purchases. Paypal only represents less than 1% of our total overall sales...none the less...it is still a few hundred dollars a week.
I think Paypal is suffering from bad press from competitors and merchant who have spent so much money on merchant accounts and payment processing solutions, that they feel justified in bashing Paypal.
The people who hate Paypal and consider its users amateurs sound to me exactly like those who say that by default, Flash is evil and bad.
Same type of thinking that doesn't stand any critical analysis of the capability of Paypal of making a sale and delivering money to merchants.
The Paypal is not professional urban myth has no basis as Paypal is far more secure than most other solutions out there, is easier to use and safe and provides a good set of features that will satisfy most users.
Personally, I'm more interested in Paypal or any other solution making me money than what a couple of payment processors who hate Paypal and their customers think about it who have reasons to have a beef against Paypal.
Mind you, Paypal is not perfect and there is room for improvements. But the so-called "only mom and pops" use Paypal is crap. Really, it is crap.
It's like saying Macs are better than PCs. It's more a fanatical response than an objective one that looks at the total swot analysis.
I'd like to see how Paypal's competitors SWOT fare against Paypal. I've never seen anything worth writing home about, and I'm not a Paypal evangelist.
Some customers prefer Paypal. Different market segments have differing numbers of these customers. If you serve a market that has customers that prefer Paypal, you should offer it as an option.
Everything else is irrelevant.
|Paypal is VERY well trusted - as its 96,000,000 million account holders can attest. |
And the fact they are fudging the truth with statistics like that proves they can't be trusted. They do not have that many ACTIVE accounts. That is registered accounts. Remember when they used to pay people to register?
Their active accounts are less than half of that... so that means that 50% or more of the people that registered for an account actually don't use them. That means that half the people that have tried them, don't like their services.
It is less than 3% of the credit cards in circulation in North America and Western Europe, so in comparision it is not much.
Now think about all those credit cards you miss out on from people that don't like PayPal or don't want to use them if that is all you use to accept payments?
It seems if you don't look at it the way PayPal spins it, they don't look all that big or popular.
On one of the Yahoo store owners forums, for those that accept both credit cards and PayPal, the consensus seems that PP is about 1 to 3% of the total sales.
So I am not sure that it is worth setting up another account just for PayPal at this point. Hard to get much real info and sift through the hype on the PayPal site.
At my website (not a Yahoo! store), PayPal accounts for about 30% of my sales. I'm located in the US, as are about 90% of my customers.
Personally I give preference and seek sites that accept PayPal. To me it's a direct transaction versus borrowing to buy something as in a credit card transaction. But I am a webmaster and have funds in my PayPal account and Joe surfer doesn't. I agree With another point raised regarding trusting PayPal security more than less known credit cards processors.
>> the fact they are fudging the truth with statistics like that
Ok. Back up what you say and provide the source for this "fact".
Seems to me there is a lot of mud slinging going on here. PayPal may not be the right choice on certain sites while on others it's a perfect fit. Why try to pidgeon hole them under one label or another? The usefulness of their service is completely dependent upon it's application.
On one of the sites I manage, PayPal accounts for 95% of the purchases. Why? Because that is all we have offered over the past 18 months and it has worked just fine for the client. They had a tight budget, didn't want to integrate a shopping cart and needed something that was quick and easy to set up and PayPal fit the bill perfectly.
Have we seen a drop in sales? lol! The client wouldn't know as this is the first time they've sold online. In fact, they've had an increase in sales due to the PayPal interface.
Why would people be scared of PayPal? They should be more scared when they hand over their CC for a night out on the town. They are at more risk at the traditional level than they are online. So, what's the big scare with PayPal?
> We are going to start taking PayPal in 2-3 weeks,
Ya, it is nice to get that 4.5% on working capital without having to use a stupid sweep account.
> > While cruising the "I hate PayPal" sites can be informative,
lol - The only ones still posting are from 1999. There hasn't been a valid complaint against pp in the last five years. I just finished reading, The PayPal Wars - highly informative.
> the fact that we get a better rate from
> our local bank than from any online processors.
Once you get into the premier accounts and world seller accounts on PayPal - your effective rate drops below 2% (even on amex).
Then start using the debit card (1.5% cash back) and the 4.5% money market setup - we end up making money off paypal. I know guys here with quarter million setting in pp right now.
> frighten them
lol bddu. It is the best company I have ever worked with in 25 years of business. Their product is rock solid, reliable, and trusted. My only regret is that I didn't buy any stock.
> For a while PayPal had kind of a shady reputation
Ya, it is staggering what 4-5 people caught up in a 1 time foriegn securities con can generate against a company on the web. That was then (98-99). Meanwhile, back in the real world, PayPal has been rock solid for five years.
> 1. Upgraded to Paypal Website Pro
Yes, the virtual terminal is great for fax orders, but the api system is not flushed out yet. best used through a 3rd party like Monster Commerce.
However, once they get the api and some better shopping cart software for websites, you won't even know it is paypal.
> 2. Added or replaced Paypal with a traditional merchant account?
There has to be an increase. What else do we need to know? (other than the massive overhead headache of a shoping cart, security, gateway, verisign/auth.net merchant acct - oh no - back end nightmare).
> Can anyone offer stats on the uptake of Paypal v\
> trad merchant account where both are offered?
Depends entirely upon your sector. side-by-side here we run 80% pp and 20% 2checkout... That 20% is mostly europeans and south east asians where pp has poor penetration.
> PP is inextricably linked with ebay
Who is this "ebay" you speak of? ;-) Only Ebayers make the connection. And Ebay gets alot of noise, but there is an entire internet out there that "don't do the webs flea market".
>Personally I give preference and seek sites that accept PayPal
Ditto, I often start out in the PayPal shops [paypal.com]
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