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Cowboy C/Card Buyer Won't Pay Up
rampzoid

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 1:47 pm on Jan 29, 2006 (gmt 0)

hi,

my wife & i live in the uk & operate a online shop.

we accept c/cards both online & off.

last oct an order for around 100 was successfully processed via the shops checkout & payment confirmed by the gateway.

about 6 weeks passed & we received a chargeback notification from our gateway saying the the cardholder did not recognise the p/ment.
we contacted the person by phone & they admit to receiving the goods (& signed for at the card address).

however they won't confirm this by letter or email.
after supplying order & mail trace details to our gateway service the chargeback was given in favour of the cardholder.
has anyone any experience of this?

also any suggestions as to how we could get our money or the products from this person?

there is no dispute about the quality of the goods etc.

many thanks.

[edited by: lorax at 1:53 pm (utc) on Jan. 29, 2006]
[edit reason] removed specifics [/edit]

 

RailMan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 10:23 am on Jan 30, 2006 (gmt 0)

if you're positive the card transaction was genuine etc, take them to court for the money

derekwong28

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 1:52 pm on Jan 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

What I can suggest is that you try to bill the customer again for a start. It takes 6-8 weeks for the funds to go back into his account and so perhaps you should wait until then.

If he does not pay at that point, you can then threaten further action. If he still does not pay, you will have to judge whether it is worth your while to pursue.

Howevee if the customer is overseas, then there is nothing much you can do about it.

idolw

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 2:16 pm on Jan 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

write him a letter (snail mail one) that you will sanil mail all his neighbours and employer about him. you will add your logs to your letter to the neighbours and employer. we had this once and a person gave us over $1500 back after such threat immediately.
you can also call him back once again (or his wife) and record the call. then call him once again and play him his voice.
my opinion is what he did is regular theft performed with some help from his bank (which will always favour his client).
we are to educate people that internet sales are good and secure and this includes killing bloody #*$!s like himself. if you have a bit of time and good mood, be cruel.

LifeinAsia

WebmasterWorld Administrator lifeinasia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 4:53 pm on Jan 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

record the call

Illegal in the U.S. unless you get the recipient's permission beforehand. (Or if you are a government agency and have an authorized wire tap.)

You can certainly ask for permission and then tape him. Of course, if he refuses to write a letter, it's unlikely that his story will be the same if he knows he's being taped.

Send a certified letter with a bill for the full amount, plus the chargeback fee. Write on the bill that it is due in full within 30 days. After that time, you will be charging interest on any unpaid amount (1.5%/month is about the norm). Also specify that any accounts still unpaid after 6 months will be turned over to a collection agency and reported to the credit reporting agencies.

In reality, to follow-up sounds like a lot more hassle than the original amount (which the guy is probably counting on). I'm not even sure that it will be easy to find a collection agency that will bother for such a small amount. But the threat of dinging the guy's credit score may be enough for him to pay up. HE may even decide that it's not worth the hassle of trying to clean up the credit mess if it gets on his record.

RailMan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 6:40 pm on Jan 31, 2006 (gmt 0)

write him a letter (snail mail one) that you will sanil mail all his neighbours and employer about him.

yet again stupidity reigns supreme .........
that's the kind of action that can land a merchant in court
where the hell is the common sense in this forum?

methods and procedures for debt recovery have existed for many many years - they are tried and tested - they work - use them - and use a bit of *@#!%$* common sense - anyone without the common sense to run a business professionally simply shouldn't be in business .......

derekwong28

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 2:59 am on Feb 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Railman, going to court over a GBP100 debt is not common sense either. Think of the hours and also the expenses you would have to put in. Even if you make a claim for these in your lawsuit, there is no guarrantee that you will be awarded costs.

If you are going spend all this time and energy on chasing a small debt like this, you won't have much time to run your business.

Essex_boy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member essex_boy us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 8:21 am on Feb 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Id write the money off, ist going to cause you at least an extra debt of 30 for the CCJ, he'll ask then to have it heard at a court near him....

If he's fairly local then go ahead and do it.

RailMan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 9:54 am on Feb 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Railman, going to court over a GBP100 debt is not common sense either. Think of the hours and also the expenses you would have to put in. Even if you make a claim for these in your lawsuit, there is no guarrantee that you will be awarded costs.
If you are going spend all this time and energy on chasing a small debt like this, you won't have much time to run your business.

it doesn't take much time to fire off a letter or two - it's something businesses should be prepared for (should be written into terms and standard letters should be prepared)

of course it requires common sense to decide whether to pursue a debt or write it off, but my point was that slagging off a dodgy customer to friends / neighbours etc is wrong, bad, and can get the merchant into serious trouble

there is a serious lack of common sense in this forum ....

idolw

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 12:55 pm on Feb 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

yet again stupidity reigns supreme .........
that's the kind of action that can land a merchant in court

Well, RailMan, the thing is to get the money back, right?
You do not even need to do that as they will contact you and pay immediately. That is what happened to us once we have asked the person whether we shall think of such solutions.

The situation we are talking about is a regular theft. I see no reason why one shall not inform the thief about the various actions that can be taken. No matter how stupid they are.

Thief is a thief and requires proper treatment. They must not even think that buying a product from a company overseas allows them to do things like that.
It is enough that Nigerian scammers attack in masses.

I am personally not interested in such situations to happen. Are you?

PCInk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 1:09 pm on Feb 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

We send an invoice with 7 days to pay on it.

Failure to pay involves the small claim court. We pay the 30 (or whatever it is nowadays) and they pay that 30 if they lose the case. This is done by post, so it is highly unlikely that they or you will ever visit a courtroom.

You will need evidence that they placed the order, that the order went out and ideally, that they signed for the items.

We are also flexible in that we allow the customer to return the goods to us to cancel the payment - as long as they are in resalable condition and were not specially ordered items.

Tried a few times - never failed. Although I have read that taking a customer to court over a chargeback can get you into trouble with the credit card companies. However, it legally remains an unpaid bill - same as a bounced cheque.

RailMan

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 1:54 pm on Feb 1, 2006 (gmt 0)

Well, RailMan, the thing is to get the money back, right?

yes, but doing so in a proper manner without the risk of ending up in court on a libel / slander charge

what do you do if your letters to neighbours don't work? send the boys round to give the "customer" a good slap?

The situation we are talking about is a regular theft.

no, it's non payment - that is the law in most parts of the world

Thief is a thief and requires proper treatment.

like cut off his hands?

people like you shouldn't be in business ... you give the rest of us a bad name ...

spend 2 minutes of your time to think about this .... and the fact that your idiotic, irresponsible advice might be read and followed by others ..... they could easily end up in court due to you ....

PCInk is doing things the right way - try and follow his example ...........

idolw

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 11:25 am on Feb 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

people like you shouldn't be in business ... you give the rest of us a bad name ...

no, customers like this one are giving all customers a bad name.
the thing is not to allow them do it again.

joethejoe

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 7:23 pm on Feb 2, 2006 (gmt 0)

The big elephant in the room is the credit card company. According to the post the customer stated he "did not recognize" the payment [for a package that was properly delivered and signed for.] Those are weasel words.

I disagree that this is only a simple matter of refusing to pay a debt. The credit card company should be required to have a written affidavit from the customer if <b>they</b> are going to take the money away from the vendor.

Either the customer used or authorized the use of his card or he did not. If not then there should be at least a sworn claim of credit card fraud.

Would the cc company do a chargeback to Ruth's Chris Steak House if the customer said I don't remember that second bottle of $200.00 wine? Please.

This situation and many like it beg for a more equitable solution.

But don't hold your breath.

cybert

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 4:44 pm on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

I've had the 'did not recognize' excuse used before. Usually it was a spouse of the customer who handled the bills in the house. They simply did not recognize the sale on the bill, did not consult their spouse and initiated a chargeback. I know - what a knee-jerk reaction. Once they received a call from us it usually was cleared up.

hfwd

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4773 posted 5:29 pm on Feb 9, 2006 (gmt 0)

Would the cc company do a chargeback to Ruth's Chris Steak House if the customer said I don't remember that second bottle of $200.00 wine? Please.

Card not present = no signature = easier to claim "not recognize charge".

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