| 4:30 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Welcome to Webmasterworld :)
Basically, your shagged, there is nothing you can do so kiss goodbye to the cash.
Didnt you suspect something was wrong?
I'm in a similar line of business and we must receive 2-3 orders a week like this, I dont reply, just toss them in the bin, which is what you should of done.
| 4:35 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)|
>>I've just received and shipped a large order of wheel covers to Lagos Nigeria.
You shipped a large order to Nigeria? I'm sorry to say this but these guys have been on the radar for some time. I think you have little or no recourse.
| 4:44 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Sorry, man. No URLs allowed in your posting.
Also, sorry to say but this posting is probably not going to be of news to any readers here. It's a constant joke in the industry.
There are numerous threads here about all the tell-tale signs - Nigeria, Indonesia, Ghana, etc., use of multiple cards, unwillingness to give the card to you until the moment they want you to ring it up (so the card hasn't been canceled), etc.
| 6:02 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)|
You will want to refund the money since 99.9% chance that this is fraud. And hopefully your insurance will cover this business loss
| 8:28 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)|
"And hopefully your insurance will cover this business loss"
Gawd I hope his insurance company isn't MY insurance company. We've had enough rate increases for stupid reasons.
I just dont have much sympathy for stupidity that costs me money and leads to more African spam.
| 9:14 pm on Apr 27, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Hey Hubcap, do not ship to Indonesia either.
How could you be unaware of Nigerian fraud? It is on the news all the time.
| 4:02 am on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
My no-ship list starts with Nigeria and Indonesia, and includes a whole lot of other places, including transshippers in the USA. Miami always gets a second glance.
There is no need to sell to third world countries. You won't make money from them. How do I know that? Because most of the world's largest, most sophisticated retailers only ship to NA, West Europe, Maybe HK, Japan and the Pacific. No Africa at all. Mexico perhaps. Not sure about South America.
Wal-Mart, the last I checked, doesn't even ship to CANADA! (I'm sure it has nothing to do with fraud, tho)
I probably turned down $1 million in Nigerian orders last year. I doubt that one of them was legitimate.
| 6:28 am on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Thats a real dog. Sorry to hear to about it, I think youve lost your money and gear.
Keep reading this forum to avoid scams like that.
| 6:33 am on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I have a couple of phone numbers for you. They won't help your current problem, but can come in handy in the future.
International Credit Card Validation
| 7:56 am on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Visa / MC don't even issue credit cards in Nigeria
| 9:11 am on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Hello moderators, if there is a way to create a little add-on to this forum, like "emergency phone numbers", in a way to quickly find some neccessary information -- like the emergency phone numbers placed at the beginning of phone books :)
I think, these numbers:
> International Credit Card Validation
> Visa 800-847-2911
> M/C 800-307-7309
along with, for example "FBI credit cards [anti]fraud department" (or whatever its name is) would be of a great help for many of us :)
| 1:32 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
>>>>including transshippers in the USA. Miami always gets a second glance.
We do a lot of business into the Caribbean and Central America through Miami. Have yet to be ripped off.
| 1:36 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Those numbers can only be dialed ( free ) from the USA ..so what would be the use of them added to (as a "resource" ) an international forum?
| 2:19 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
">>>>including transshippers in the USA. Miami always gets a second glance.
We do a lot of business into the Caribbean and Central America through Miami. Have yet to be ripped off."
True. I've shipped a few iffy small orders to coastal-cities forwarders without problems.
Phone number for verifying Nigerian/Indonesian cards:
| 2:36 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
In case of a questionnable order I'd prefer to dial one of these numbers, than lose my money (btw, I am not in the USA).
It might be non-free outside USA, they still does not cost you a fortune :)
Btw, VISA/MC payments _are_ accepted by many on this international forum.
| 3:33 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
The point I was making is that there are other numbers for credit card control ..specific to each country where the merchant is based ....
There are visa central numbers for France , UK ,Germany etc they are the ones that used to be called when you hired a car to confirm your balance ..In Europe I think that visa central at least is at home ( in Ireland )reachable via freephone numbers that depend on where you are ..
Your bank can get the number for you that is nearest to your for credit card verification ..
These two are only good for the USA...
| 3:56 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
>>>Wal-Mart, the last I checked, doesn't even ship to CANADA!
That would be because of the brokerage fees that occur as the goods cross the border. A great protection for Canadian retailers.
Free trade does not really exist, despite what our leaders (and Lou Dobbs) tell us.
| 4:16 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
can i just point out that even if you do call one of those numbers and they say the card is ok...
as you have taken a customer not present transaction they can reverse it at any time.
often stolen card numbers remain 'valid' for a while until someone notices, so you could be lulled into a false sense of security.
| 4:48 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Wonder how many scammers call such numbers? LOL Do they take relay operator calls? LOL LOL
| 5:15 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I'm sorry I tried to help. And I'm sorry I posted those numbers. It won't happen again.
| 5:30 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Hubcap_Ron, you really must read all the documentation from your merchant services. Go through it with a fine tooth comb, set a company policy on accepting cards, and insist that anyone who's accepting orders follow the policy to the letter. Part of a sensible policy is to set a threshold above which orders will be shipped only to addresses you verify with the card issuing bank. It's good practice to not disclose this threshold to anyone not actually working for you. And, good luck with future transactions.
| 6:28 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
with regards to those 2 numbers, im sure that grandpa was only using them as an example. The person in question is in America, so they would have been useful to him.
However there could be a forum with phone numbers for all major countries (although that could be a very large thread), and i'm sure this is what grandpa meant.
| 8:08 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Can you check confirm international card's billing address with those 2 numbers? If so, that can cut down on fraud quite a bit.
Hubcap, every online merchant probably gets bitten once w/ Nigeria or Indonesia fraud order - consider it your initiation rites, so don't feel bad.
Actually, international cc fraudster has gotten more and more sophisticated. It's harder to spot them when they use a transshipper (i.e. business w/ USA address that forwards packages to foreign countries).
We've also seen an order from an Indonesian city, with Japan as the country. The postal system (I don't know whether it's US or Japanese) is smart enough to figure out that it should have been shipped to Indonesia, and forwards it to the fraudster.
Another type is sending check drawn in US funds from foreign banks. We've had an experience with Canadian fraudster whose lifelihood is buying small amounts of goods (not large orders) via check. The check bounced, of course, and when we called the Canadian police, they even know about him but can't do anything since no one is willing to fly up to Canada & file a charge for a measly hundred or so bucks... So, he goes on & on ripping off merchants for a looong time...
| 8:42 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Thank you hfwd in regard to your statement ... "Hubcap, every online merchant probably gets bitten once w/ Nigeria or Indonesia fraud order - consider it your initiation rites, so don't feel bad."
Some of these individuals are making me out to be a complete fool for filling such an order. Don't you guys think that if I suspected something, I would have backed off from it? The first order I filled for this guy was legitimate. The credit card was in the person's name with a Lagos, Nigeria address. The only thing that was off was the zip/postal code. And that $200+ transaction went fine with no problem. And that was over 2 months ago. But for the next purchase they gave a different credit card. I didn't think anything of it. I personally have many credit cards and I use each one. So why should I think that I was being hung?
Comments like "Gawd I hope his insurance company isn't MY insurance company. We've had enough rate increases for stupid reasons. I just dont have much sympathy for stupidity that costs me money and leads to more African spam." are really uncalled for. I posted here for advice & help, not sacrcasm & criticizm. Believe me, there WILL be more people after here and you WILL be posting these same messages over & over again. Credit Card fraudsters are just like auto mechanics .. it's not simply enough to know how to fix cars up to the 80's; you have to keep educating yourself to fix newer cars each year or you'll be out of business. That's the same way it is and will always be with CC fraud. They'll keep streamlining & enhancing their techniques to keep up with the times.
| 9:11 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
You're welcome hubcap_ron. Don't get discouraged - keep at it & keep watching this forum for more tips.
I'm surprised that the first order was fine - very unlikely that anyone from Lagos would buy hubcaps all the way from the US.
It is possible that the legitimate owner of the credit card just didn't notice the fraudulent charge. Many people here just don't bother to read over their statements...
| 9:15 pm on Apr 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
"Hubcap, every online merchant probably gets bitten once w/ Nigeria or Indonesia fraud order - consider it your initiation rites, so don't feel bad."
Nah. Our losses have been microscopic, in the neighborhood of 0.2%, about the same as bad checks in our retail stores. But I have 30 years of retail experience.
The odor of fraud is all over most of these orders. Don't worry about the one sophisticated scammer in a thousand (like that Canadian bad check passer). As with most crimes, 99% of crooks are idiots and can be spotted a mile off.
Watch out for huge orders to unsavory places that want fast, price-is-no-object express shipping, and you will eliminate almost all fraud. Use the telephone and google to check out people and companies. Be quick to say no.
Didn't you wonder why a store in Lagos Nigeria wanted 30 Corolla hub caps...fast?
| 12:09 am on Apr 29, 2005 (gmt 0)|
>>Some of these individuals are making me out to be
>>a complete fool for filling such an order. Don't
>>you guys think that if I suspected something, I
>>would have backed off from it?
thing is, nigeria is the most corrupt country in the world and there is so much information on the internet about nigerian credit card fraud that there is no excuse for missing it. it's part of your job as a businessman and a merchant to find out things like this. there is much more to being a businessman / merchant than having the ability to tap a few numbers into a credit card terminal ............
>>The first order I filled for this guy was
>>legitimate. The credit card was in the person's
>>name with a Lagos, Nigeria address.
extremely unlikely because mastercard and visa do not issue credit cards in nigeria. check the visa / mastercard websites for card issue countries. it's clear as day. no questions, no ifs, no buts.
i'll bet the card belonged to someone with an american / english sounding name. that would be the name of the real cardholder almost certainly in the USA. the nigerian that placed the order has a completely different name.
you've been stung big time. the nigerians think you a fool and will come back again and again. they will tell their friends and they will place orders as well. be very careful ........ also watch out for them placing orders with delivery to shipping agents / forwarding addresses in the US .......
>>That's the same way it is and will always be with
>>CC fraud. They'll keep streamlining & enhancing
>>their techniques to keep up with the times.
this wasn't a new or sophisticated fraud - it was the most basic credit card fraud, very common, been used over and over for years. they'll use it again and again because it works. they know merchants don't bother finding out about credit card fraud .........
| 1:37 am on Apr 29, 2005 (gmt 0)|
"you've been stung big time. the nigerians think you a fool and will come back again and again."
True, and not just that you are a fool, but all Americans (and westerners). That's one reason this stupidity bugs me.
The Nigerians have a word for the suckers they scam, Muguman. Look up that word in Google.
By the way, there are several Western websites devoted to scamming the scammers. It is a hobby for some westerners to get even with those who try to pull off Nigerian letter ("section 419 scams"). A few have even turned the tables by getting money FROM Nigerians.
| 6:08 am on Apr 29, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Many people here just don't bother to read over their statements - yeah like me.
Ive been hit by dodgy transactions and didnt think anything of it until several month slater....DOH
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