| 11:12 pm on Feb 26, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I'd add the Scandanavian countries and New Zealand to that list, and most of the western european countries but that's about it
| 4:47 am on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Thanks for reminding me about New Zealand.
Specifically what about countries like Austria, the Czech Republic, and Greece or is the line drawn at Italy and Germany?
| 9:09 am on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Austria is normally fine, Czech Republic and Greece less so, though Cyprus and Malta have always been fine for me.
| 11:54 am on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Haven't had any problems so far with the Netherlands and Republic of Ireland.
| 4:16 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
My current list is now:
Am I leaving any countries with very low rates of fraud out? Does anyone see anything on this list that raises a red flag for them?
| 4:22 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
One thing you can always do is Google the buyer. A substantial percentage of legitmate buyers from more questionable countries can be found there.
| 4:35 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
So far the criteria seem pretty conservative. Some of us need every legitimate order we can get. So prehaps a better approach is to whitelist everyone except those from a country on a blacklist. And for orders from countries on the blacklist do a Google search of the customer. One such blacklist might include:
Belarus, Bulgaria, Columbia, Cuba, Egypt, Estonia, Ghana, Hungary, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Latvia, Libya, Lithuania, Macedonia, Malaysia, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, Philippines, Romania, Russia, Serbia, Singapore, Slovak Republic, Sudan, Thailand, Ukraine, and Yugoslavia
| 4:43 pm on Feb 27, 2004 (gmt 0)|
We don't blacklist any country, but some will merit vigilance. We have shipped perfectly valid orders to Indonesia, Vietnam, Thailand, Congo and Russia, and Eastern Europe.
The key is to make sure that the credit card was issued by a bank based in that country. Since credit cards are generally not readily available in these countries, the chances are that the orders will be valid. My experience is that you will get the most loyal customers from these countries.
| 7:46 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Thanks for the tip on making sure the card is issued by an in country bank.
| 8:49 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Hi somewhere on Yahoo is a good article about credit card fraud with some very interesting things to look for.
It was under an index for people building yahoo shops I think.
One tip was to ask for the last 3 digits of the number printed on the back. This meant they had to have the actual card in their hand.
| 11:05 am on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)|
That definitely helps, and it seems to be a technique that sites are using more frequently. However think about this. The three digit code is revealed every time a store clerk flips it over to check the signature.
Here in Taiwan people will monitor ATM machines using a camcorder from a nearby apartment. Apparently they are good enough to figure out the pin numbers and card #s from that. I know about this because someone took $500 out of my account last week and I had to cancel my atm card.
I would never accept a credit card as payment for an order being shipped to Taiwan.
| 12:32 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Quite often, hackers obtain the 3-letter code from credit card details of customers stored with merchants. Therefore we don't take this seriously anymore.
The most important measure you can take against international fraud is to have a system to verify which country the credit card is issued in.
If in doubt, some payment processors such as Worldpay will carry out a manual AVS check for you irrespective where the order came from. However, in some European countries, such checkes are against the law.
| 1:04 pm on Mar 1, 2004 (gmt 0)|
The three digits on the back mean very little but can be very helpful, too.
They do not stop a card going through except with AMEX who now require this for customer not present orders.
Being correct means that the person is more likely to be the owner. Being incorrect usually gives the impression that the customer is a fraudster or they can't be bothered to type in the numbers.
I did have one man order a lot of stuff, he gave three credit card numbers to cover the order, presumably because after the first was clearly stolen and I asked him if his credit limit was large enough. Those three little numbers made a huge difference. He said '671' (I can't remember the exact numbers!). 671? Chances of being correct 1 in 1000. His second card has a security number of 671, a s chance of 1 in 1000000. And his third....1 in 1000000000. Amazing! I think Visa and Mastercards random number generation software needs some looking at!
I have never had many problems within the UK: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Eire (Southern Ireland or Republic of Ireland).
But there never is such a thing as a black list and white list. Some shades of grey are just darker than others.
| 4:15 am on Mar 5, 2004 (gmt 0)|
So how do you tell where the issuing bank was located?
| 5:34 am on Mar 5, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I'm based in the U.S. and I have always been afraid to ship international because of the horror stories. You guys basicly don't seem to have much a fear of it, is there anyone out there with a different opinion. I get quite a few email inquires regarding international shipping, so I imagine there is alot more who don't even bother.
| 9:28 am on Mar 5, 2004 (gmt 0)|
No, I don't ship international either. Not anymore. It complicates tax, insurance, postage costs and increases the risk of fraud.
| 9:48 pm on Mar 8, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I have shipped all over the place,
I only have been ripped off once and that was in the early days of setup.
The one sure fire sign of fraud is .....
"pLEASE YOU I PURCHASE 10 of your [well known brand here]can you let I KNOW when you have sent shipment by fedex" thank you blah blah indonesia, algeria......email is hotmail, yahoo etc.
The main clues being
well known brand - easy to sell in markets or ebay
Send fast by fedex - hoping you will just send it and process card later.
Free email account - most people who can afford a credit card have their own email that includes part of their name.
You have a better chance of being a victim from your own country as the locals know how to trip you up with things you would not think of.
| 1:34 pm on Mar 9, 2004 (gmt 0)|
One rule of thumb is that if the goods you are selling are much more cheaply available in that country. Then the chances are that it is a fraudulent order. We always view such large orders from the U.S. with caution.