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This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >     
Whaddaya think about dis?
Flash discussion
BoneHeadicus




msg:570614
 10:04 pm on Mar 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

I ran across this while looking for a book on Global Graphics.

What do you think about the Flash navigation bar? [rockpub.com]

 

grnidone




msg:570615
 10:33 pm on Mar 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

MY GOD. That is one of the most annoying things I have seen. It's like one of those programs that says "Click here" and then when you move your mouse over it to click, the image moves to the other side of the screen.

And actually, if you didn't tell me it was a nav bar, I wouldn't have even tried to click it.

-G

oilman




msg:570616
 11:16 pm on Mar 27, 2001 (gmt 0)

I'm gonna raise a saying from my early forum days:

EEWWW! It's making my eyes bleed!

That's nasty. I've seen a couple other web sites with a similar nav and it always threw me for a loop.

I figure most folks have enough trouble with simple nav let alone a moving slide that speeds up and slows down. My mother, God bless her, is finally online and I guarantee she wouldn't know what to do with that.

tedster




msg:570617
 1:48 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

They just called the paramedics for Jakob Nielsen.

mivox




msg:570618
 1:52 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

My mother, God bless her

My mother, who would probably smack me for talking about her that way ;) , has been online for quite sometime, and still wouldn't know what to do with that...

I thought it was kinda fun, trying to figure out exactly how to toy with the momentum... but it makes for really lousy navigation.

minnapple




msg:570619
 1:56 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

I have motion sickness - please include some kind of warning before links like that!

BoneHeadicus




msg:570620
 2:20 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

I got a good laugh out of that one....I knew what the reactions would be.

Off to find more interesting and extremely useful navigation aids

BoneHeadicus




msg:570621
 2:46 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

Here is a cross between [blippy.com] Neilsenian and Flash to bridge the gap between "cool and not quite cool yet".

A must see.

BoneHeadicus




msg:570622
 2:57 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

The Sherlock Holmes Navigation Mystery [think-im.com]

Tasteful, elegant and somewhat practical. Almost has an "aire" about it [fragrance.org]

There must be some people who don't like intros? [skipintro.com]

minnapple




msg:570623
 4:19 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

Good humor BoneHeadicus

gmiller




msg:570624
 10:35 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

I mentioned not long ago that Marvel's online comics used a Flash navigation system that was a true abomination. Apparently, I wasn't the only one who complained, because they've implemented a new navigation system. I guess they decided the real problem was that they simply didn't have ENOUGH gratuitous Flash.

Apparently, they haven't seen those ads about not using the power just because you have it:

[marvel.com...]

knighty




msg:570625
 11:20 am on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

If you cant use animation on a comic site where can you use it?

Why dont you just switch to text only browsers?

grnidone




msg:570626
 11:51 pm on Mar 28, 2001 (gmt 0)

If you don't send the sherlock holmes one to websitesthatsuck, I will do it for you...

And that first one with 500 thousand lines of text was a nightmare...(but I'll bet spiders love it..)

And I acutally liked the skip intro site...but only once.

-G

BoneHeadicus




msg:570627
 12:43 am on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

BLIPPY'S INCREDIBILITINESS WEB SITES

"Incredibilitiness"??????

What's Blippy smokin?

BoneHeadicus




msg:570628
 2:25 am on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

Much to my chagrin, I'm having a hard time finding a good example of a Flash navigation bar.

I would like to build one myself based on the input from here at usability central.

So far:

1.The navigation bar shouldn't be harder to catch than your cat.

2.Shouldn't be harder to decipher than your doctors handwriting.

3. Should have a hint of good taste.

4. Should load quicker than the average Geocities picture gallery.

5. Should fit into the web site theme without overpowering it.

Anything else?

rcjordan




msg:570629
 2:28 am on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

Shouldn't be Flash.

mivox




msg:570630
 2:37 am on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

I could see Flash used well for a drop-down style menu... but now, once users catch up to the latest browsers, you'll be able to that with Javascript & CSS, so why use a proprietary solution?

It would have to be some kind of navigation design that took advantage (somehow...?) of the vector gfx/animation features of Flash. Otherwise, there's no reason to use it.

How the heck could you do a vector graphic-based, animated navbar that wasn't 10x as annoying as a normal HTML navbar? Heck if I know...

I thought the accelerating, horizontal-scrolling, acid-trip menu was nifty, so maybe I'm not the person to ask! ;)

minnapple




msg:570631
 3:56 am on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

I am with you mivox,
If only everything (or at least most things) could be done without a proprietary solution.
Life would be a dream! ta - da - ta - da - ta - da

knighty




msg:570632
 8:02 am on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

>once users catch up to the latest browsers,

HA HA yeah right Mivox, I still have 2nd generation browsers visiting my site!

knighty




msg:570633
 8:40 am on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

Why use a Flash Navbar over a HTML navbar?

1) Cross Browser support
2) Cross Platform Support
3) Quicker to Download
4) Can look much much cooler
5) Can scale to fit any screen size
6) Can actually make your site look more interesting (rather than dull and boring plain jane HTML)
7) Gives designer more creative freedom
8) No need for pages of complex Java/CSS/DHTML

gmiller




msg:570634
 11:46 am on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

> If you cant use animation on a comic site where can you use it?

Because I'm there to read Spidey's adventures, not to spend 10 minutes downloading and another 10 figuring out how to operate the thing. It's nice that they've finally got the actual comic part downloading 10-20 times faster than it used to, at least.

> 1) Cross Browser support

Of course, a simple set of HTML links would work on even more browsers.

> 2) Cross Platform Support

Same here.

> 3) Quicker to Download

Quicker than HTML? Not even close.

> 4) Can look much much cooler

Good for attracting newbies, but it seems like more experienced users are tired of it.

> 5) Can scale to fit any screen size

Just like HTML.

> 6) Can actually make your site look more interesting (rather than dull and boring plain jane HTML)

Or much more annoying and confusing. I guess it all comes down to the purpose of your web site. I wouldn't mind odd navigation schemes if my purpose in visiting the web site was to check out odd navigation schemes. But when I'm looking to actually *use* a site, the best navigation is navigation that doesn't stand out from the pack.

> 7) Gives designer more creative freedom

Sure, but that only matters to designers. When I'm browsing the web, I'm more interested in how I, as a user, am affected.

> 8) No need for pages of complex Java/CSS/DHTML

There's no need for complex navigation code even without Flash.

I don't mind sites using Flash as long as I never notice that's what they're doing. If I notice it, something's gone wrong.

knighty




msg:570635
 12:37 pm on Mar 29, 2001 (gmt 0)

erm.... sorry

when I said HTML navbar I was actually assuming some GIF usage with rollovers and NOT pure HTML otherwise I would'nt have mentioned java script etc.

grnidone




msg:570636
 7:03 pm on Mar 30, 2001 (gmt 0)

Personally, when it comes to navigation, I want the simplest thing I can find...I don't want to have to figure out how to get around.

In fact, if I don't first do a search, then I look for the thing that says "site map" and hope for plain html links.

If you have to use flash, don't use it for navigation...use it for other things.

-G

knighty




msg:570637
 9:45 am on Mar 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

What??

Why would you have to figure out how to naviagate? I really dont understand some of the comments I see regarding flash. It is up to the designer how complicated or simple the page is. Flash is just a tool.

I could do a rollover naviagtion system that on first apperaences you would think is images but in fact is flash - the result would be a lot smaller in file size.

OR i could do a drop down menu which again would be small in file size, look exactly the same in any browser and function in the same way and no need fo pages of JS or DHTML.

Navigation is one of the best places to use flash.

gmiller




msg:570638
 12:44 pm on Mar 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

Flash is not the worst imaginable way to implement navigation, but simple HTML or HTML+embedded JS still gives you a performance advantage (and no, I'm not saying it's impossible to write slow HTML and JS) due to network latency and not requiring time for a plug-in to load... HTML also has the advantage of working for pretty much everybody, including SEs, without duplicating the navigation.

sean orourke




msg:570639
 1:39 pm on Mar 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

Going back to the first example, the ever popular scrolling bar, here is how I would modify it for a more conservatively designed site:

* use it for chronological sequences where meaningful graphics can add to the text, i.e. at a history.
* use it only as secondary navigation to a more conventional primary navigation.
* include arrows on either side, perhaps smaller (inside) to larger (outside) to signify the varying control over speed.
* add a line above or below to explain what is shown, and, at the risk of being tres uncool, how to use it.
* consider starting it in the OFF mode, or very (very!) slow.

BTW - thanks for the interesting links, BH.

BoneHeadicus




msg:570640
 4:33 pm on Mar 31, 2001 (gmt 0)

Hey sean.

I'm devastated. You didn't even mention the best example I've ever been able to come up with for the "if Jakob Neilsen [blippy.com] designed in Flash" site category.

It is truly an engineering marvel. He even invented new words when he needed to. Definitely a standard we all can use to guage our own sites by in the future.

grnidone




msg:570641
 7:37 pm on Apr 2, 2001 (gmt 0)

Knighty Knight,

You missed my point, although looking back, I can see that I wasn't clear.

I don't care what if it is flash, javascript, whatever, I don't want to have to figure it out. The first example Bonehead posted was something I would have to figure out to use.

I like simple. My favorite being plain html links on a site map page or at the bottom of each page. I am sure flash could make simple navigation, but it still ain't as simple as html on a site map page.

You are correct, Flash is a tool. But I have seen too many people abuse it.

-G
"Early Web Minimalist" ;)

knighty




msg:570642
 8:17 am on Apr 3, 2001 (gmt 0)

grnidone,

Yeah I agree simple is good and if you just want to use plain HTML for navigtion its pointless looking to flash.

I just want people to shoot the message and not the messenger. Flash can be so simple that Joe Bloggs wouldnt be able to tell the difference between Flash and HTML.

tedster




msg:570643
 8:41 am on Apr 3, 2001 (gmt 0)

You know, so many times I've been creating an animated gif and wanted to be able to cycle back through just SOME of the frames, or go through the sequence with different timing, or in a different frame order. It really bugged me -- the data for those images was already in the gif, but the format only allows me to tromp through the images one way, like a robot.

Well, here's a handy-dandy little tool called Flash that offers that kind of flexibility and more. It can draw images in vector format -- and that means they can grow bigger or smaller without eating up a whole bunch more file size.

I intend to embrace the Flashy little fellah, but he just can't eat my whole site.

I celebrate the potential here. And, as much as I have problems with that accelerating navigation strip, I celebrate the experiment. They just threw too many features into it and lost site of usability.

This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >
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