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The Newest netscape/mozilla release.
Brett_Tabke




msg:607254
 8:26 am on Oct 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

No one has any comments on the latest release? I tried the last one and had some system problems because of it. I'm not real eager to go try it again until it hits a final beta or final release stage.

 

Hotrodder




msg:607255
 2:00 pm on Oct 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

I have been using the daily builds (http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest/) for Mozilla for the late few weeks. All in all it's been without any major problems. It's a bit slow at times but then my computer is from the bronze age :(, I have heard people with newer puters don't notice and speed problems.

Things I like.

Skinning - Not just making it look different.. you can actually change how the UI works. You can go extremely minimalist or go overboard with the eye candy. I noticed a MDI interface for you Opera fans, IE and Netscape 3 clones.

Rendering- It's nice seeing another browser that supports the standards. (Web pages look damn near identical in Opera4 and Moz) On the UBB clone BB's the table rendering is very fast!

Cross-platform - I have used both the Win and the Linux versions and everything works/looks the same.

The cookie manager and the image manager are great features. You can pick if you want to accept images from a different server (i.e.. ads) the same with cookies. You can also see a list and what the cookies contain.

Open Source - IMHO Your gona see alot of programs that will be using Mozilla in one way or the other. Some examples.. Chatzilla a built in IRC client, and forumzilla that will display compatible web forums with a news reader format (with kill filters etc..) Not to mention that the next AOL very well could be a modified mozilla.

Things I don't like

Speed. The UI is still a bit slow at times, but not unuseable (performance issues will be addressed during the next build.)

Netscape version.. I don't see why but the Netscape version is a 20 Mb download and Mozilla is 10 Mb... I don't see any functional differences between the two... (10 Mb of branding???)

Overall I like it, and think it could be big if it can overcome the M$ advantage.

Brett_Tabke




msg:607256
 2:03 pm on Oct 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

Thanks Hotrodder. I might give it a shot later today.

The netscape verision is partially bigger due to the AOL messenger (which is a 5megger by itself).

Hotrodder




msg:607257
 2:07 pm on Oct 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

AOL is in Mozilla also... Maybe because I had NSpr3 installed when I installed Moz?

tedster




msg:607258
 6:59 pm on Oct 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

Thanks, hotrodder, for that information.

Any improvement in rendering tables will be a welcome improvement. And the option for a stripped down skin sounds good to me as well.

I just might get up the courage to give the latest a look.

Brett_Tabke




msg:607259
 8:23 pm on Oct 10, 2000 (gmt 0)

Well, I've tried several of the Moz builds (m12-13), but the problem was always stability. One of my systems was never the same again.

Speaking of linux browsers; the first official beta of Opera for linux [electricnews.net] was release. Albeit, a really, really buggy bad excuse for a beta; but beta none-the-less. Personally, I hope Moz is worth using because Opera is going down hill fast in my eyes, I'm close to giving up the ghost.

Brett_Tabke




msg:607260
 8:11 am on Oct 11, 2000 (gmt 0)

I was looking forward to seeing the latest build, because I am not all that fond of the direction that Opera has taken.

Downloaded the latest nightly build (10-8) and installed without a hitch. Very stable. Didn't crash it once. Much better than the last build (m12) I tried.

Startup times.
Opera 3.62: 2-4 seconds, (sip of coffee).
Opera 4.1:, 4-7 seconds. (pour a cup of coffee).
IE5 (98) 4-8 seconds, (pour a cup of coffee, grab cream and sugar).
Opera 4.03/4.02:, 5-12 seconds. (brew a full pot).
Netscape 4: 16 seconds, (roast beans, grind beans, brew a full pot).
Mozilla: 23 seconds. (run to store, buy seeds, plant beans, wait to grow, brew).
(333celeron, 256meg, 3-7200 40gig dma66, 21in 1280x1024 8meg)

Problems.
I can't find anything mdi in it? How does one enable it? Everything was loading in new windows.
Very slow display speed. Rendering speed is on par with nn4, but interface speed was just shy of intolerable. For example it takes 10 seconds to switch themes.
System usage. Often runs at 10-20% cpu usage even when not doing anything. 80-100% when rendering a page.
Privacy and Security. This thing is the next big security problem waiting to happen. It is netscape, they are not to be trusted until proven otherwise. For example, how does one toggle on/off referrers?
Where is the animation off setting? Man that is the most annoying thing.
Is there a button for 'apply my css' or is it menu only?
Where is my homepage button? It is set to show in prefs. Search, print and go are all there, but where is the home button? A bug? Should be right next to reload.
Is there a graphics toggle button? I was unable to get it to not load images or stop annoying animations.
It won't let me apply preferences sometimes. hmmm, bug?
Throbber, it was plain dumb in 1995, it is still dumb today. Especially since they have the barber shop graphic for progress.
Source code viewer? How do I set it to my editor?
Wheel mouse - wouldn't let me use it.

I wanted to surf alot of pages to see what things rendered like, but with no wheel mouse it was like cutting off a hand. I didn't do that much actual surfing. But man, this place displays identical in all 5 of the above mentioned browsers (cudos to the webmaster even with the html errors. lol)

I admit I have never liked Netscape, Netscape corp, or any product they have ever put out. From the first time I ran NS2(?) and promptly destroyed not just one, not two, but three systems to the point of requiring reinstallation of the OS - all data was lost - I've never cared for them. As far as I'm concerned, Netscape is a poor company, with backwards thinking programers that have a history of producing low quality, insecure, suspect software. That tradition has been continued in Moz. They deserved what they got from Microsoft. If it wasn't microsoft, it would have been someone else.

Images? Like other webmasters have said, it is either time to move images to a rotating server image farms. Or just ban Mozilla outright. All they are doing, is forcing ad companies a little extra work and ticking off webmasters in the process.

But, I'm glad I installed it to give me a reminder of what I like about Opera. There is room for a 4th browser.

Hotrodder




msg:607261
 2:22 pm on Oct 11, 2000 (gmt 0)


I can't find anything mdi in it? How does one enable it?

It's a theme, go to [x.themes.org...] As far as the speed issues, the developers will be addressing that after the next milestone (19) is out. Besides I believe your a DOS guy.. you really should use the DOS browser that's out there. (Arachnid ???)


Privacy and Security. This thing is the next big security problem waiting to happen. It is Netscape, they are not to be trusted until proven otherwise. For example, how does one toggle on/off referrers?

Security issues?? Like what? too me referrers are no big deal, I sometimes see a http//www.YetAnotherX-RatedSite.com in my sites logs but who cares? I really cant trace this down to Joe Blow anytown USA.


Is there a button for 'apply my css' or is it menu only?
Where is my homepage button? It is set to show in prefs. Search, print and go are all there, but where is the home button? A bug? Should be right next to reload.
Is there a graphics toggle button? I was unable to get it to not load images or stop annoying animations. Source code viewer? How do I set it to my editor?

All this is configurable using themes... might not be something for an average user but I'm sure there will be tons of themes out there as time goes on. And above that.. it's Open Source software... You can CHANGE IT! I'm sure there will be a patch in the future to use your preferred editor when you view source. After all, that is the type of thing a person who can code would want. :-)


From the first time I ran NS2(?) and promptly destroyed not just one, not two, but three systems to the point of requiring reinstallation of the OS - all data was lost - I've never cared for them.

I can't stress this enough.... This is not even beta software, really not even Alfa.. this is a work in progress. I believe that releasing the Netscape PR versions were a huge mistake and will/have caused alot of bad press for Netscape.


Images? Like other webmasters have said, it is either time to move images to a rotating server image farms. Or just ban Mozilla outright. All they are doing, is forcing ad companies a little extra work and ticking off webmasters in the process.

OK you have lost me. What do you mean?

from an earlier post-

Speaking of Linux browsers; the first official beta of Opera for Linux was release. Albeit, a really, really buggy bad excuse for a beta; but beta none-the-less. Personally, I hope Moz is worth using because Opera is going down hill fast in my eyes, I'm close to giving up the ghost.

I tried the Opera for Linux beta... UGH! really really bad beta. :( Yet, like I said its BETA! and betas more often than not suck.

Brett_Tabke




msg:607262
 3:35 pm on Oct 13, 2000 (gmt 0)


First, after rereading my reply, all I can say is I was having a bad browser day. whew. That touch over the top.

>>I can't find anything mdi in it? How does one enable it?

>It's a theme, go to [x.themes.org...]

I should have known better by now to attempt to customize anything linux based. (2 hours and not a skin to show for it - I got a couple all dl'd dezipped and I think installed right into the chrome dir - nothing ever showed up in the themes list though).

>the developers will be addressing that after the next milestone (19) is out.

Program speed is not a bolt on option ;)

>>Privacy and Security.

>Security issues?? Like what? too me referrers are no big deal,

Oh, about a thousand pages on this site I would like to keep hidden and not leak out referers. Log files, email links on web email, private programs and scripts, private photos between family members, private message lists, temp business files, private forums, beta test reports - just stuff that needs to be on the net that I don't want exposed a the hassle of hta passwords is greater than the threat. The threat is from the referer, not the server or the hacker. I won't use a browser where I can't remove referers. Most of the time now when I'm not using Opera, I use Proxomitron to block them. I think it is the greatest net security threat I have.

I'm more concerned about the security of the browser itself. With all the gapping holes nn has found over the years, who knows what lurks under the moz hood.

>All this is configurable using themes...

That holds a promise.

btw: what compiler does it take to compile under win? (or I should say, what compiler are the programmers using for win?)

>>From the first time I ran NS2(?) and promptly destroyed not just one, not two, but three systems

>I can't stress this enough.... This is not even beta software,

Feels more stable than nn2 or 3 to me. (or the first release of Opera4 for that matter)

>Netscape PR versions were a huge mistake

Same thing with the betas of Opera 4.

>>move images to a rotating server image farms.

>OK you have lost me. What do you mean?

Those who run infotainment site (eg: we live off advertising. Mozilla is a threat to our lively hood. A worse than the banner busters. What an uproar they have caused in high places). In order to get around that, many have said they will move all the images a site uses to other "image farms". No third party images = no banners = no images from the site period (aka: bandwidth leeches). They are already starting to do it in a couple advertising circles and I've been approached by a couple of people setting up server farms just to lease out for rotating image usage. (on site x today, on ip xyz next week. With a suitable "on both" time on both to address caching issues like AOL.)

If you've watched your redirects, the big ones like Doubleclick are already beginning to play with redirection to pure ip addresses. I doubt it will be long before they start doing it further down the chain like Flycast and Burst (who both redirect the majority of banners to double click).

>from an earlier post-

>>beta of Opera

>I tried the Opera for Linux beta... UGH! really really bad beta.

Did you try the one released last week? Suppose to be a monumental improvement over the tech previews.

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