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This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34 ( [1] 2 > >     
Does anyone have a fake flash plugin?
I want it to stop asking me if I want to install it
TheDave




msg:604050
 10:28 pm on Jan 11, 2003 (gmt 0)

Does anyone know a way I can make IE think flash is installed, without actually having to install flash? I don't want flash, and I'm getting sick of being asked if I want to install it.

 

tedster




msg:604051
 9:27 pm on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sorry to tell you, but I don't think there's a legitimate way to do this. Faking a plug-in is a kind of hack that can be used for all manner of nasty exploits and we don't teach people to do that here.

I do appreciate your desire not to have something force-fed to you through a repetitive water torture method. But as far as I know, you'll have to "just say no", over and over and over.

gsx




msg:604052
 9:34 pm on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think they are ActiveX, try disabling this option in the browser.

pissant




msg:604053
 3:50 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

you could just stop going to place that use flash... of course this cuts out about half the internet.

if you use IE you could turn off activeX,and javascript...
If you are a real purist you could just use a text only browser ;-)

But I'm probably not much help I can't understand why someone wouldn't want flash. It might just be easier to install flash and ignore any flash apps that you come across.

But I am interested, why do you want to avoid flash?

chiyo




msg:604054
 4:09 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

pissant

>>you could just stop going to place that use flash... of course this cuts out about half the internet.

You are joking obviously?

Any real stats out there?

Sometimes I wish i hadnt installed it. I have seen some info i wouldnt have seen without flash, but very little, and now when I go to some sites, they dont give a choice between flash and no flash and suddenly I am thrust into "wait" mode, hitting the back button or closing the window seems more difficult than usual. Thats not done by all sites who use flash, (in fact a very small minority), but enough to reduce the effectiveness of my browsing experience.

If all Flash users gave browsers a choice to view a Flash based or a HTML site, or even warn people that Flash was loading and give them a choice BEFORE to continue or back out, Im sure that Flash would become accepted much faster especially by dial up users, power users, and research users.

>>But I am interested, why do you want to avoid flash?

For me, though you didnt ask...

1. From experience, there is a good chance that I will not get the info i want as quickly as i would like, and will probably have some of my navigation choices reduced as flash users often use it to direct and control the browser, rather than letting them make their own decisions.

2. There is a good chance it will take a while to load given my experience.

3. There is a better chance than normal that I will be exposed less to infromation and more to animated graphics, animated menus, and perpheral branding and advertising spins.

4. Theres a possibility it will crash my browser (it has 4 times on different sites in the last year)

5.I will probably not be able to cut paste and copy and info within the flash for later off line analysis and viewing. I like getting hidden nuggets on sites (usually text), and copying them immediately to text files so i can save them for reading later. With flash I get the whole caboddle and cannot focus, choose and copy the info i want to a text file.

Hopefully these assumptions will change in the near future when Flash gets used more professionally by web designers. Ive seen some great product demos done in flash, but all have been prefaced by - "would you like to see our product demo?" Flash shines in animated demos and nice presentations many levels above powerpoint. But I dont want to be forced to view these if i dont have the time right now.

pissant




msg:604055
 4:32 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

chiyo
"You are joking obviously? "

well yeh, mostly!
guess what I do for a living!
The saddest thing for me is that when flash first exploded a large proportion was a waste of time, and now annoying adds seem to be proliferating!
But flash is an incredibly powerful tool when used properly!
when used properly, how people will disagree when that is...
I mainly make games and applications rather than animations, Although I did recently make my first database driven intranet site.

chiyo




msg:604056
 7:56 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

pissant,, agree with you 100%

Unfortunately the perception IS reality when it comes to the bottom line. Though many perceptions may be based on out-of-date experiences and are no longer reality, that s the hole that MacroM dug for themselves with their marketing to webmasters. Once bitten, thrice shy.

Flash does have a "perception" problem in much of the browsing population, but absolutely none in its webmaster users.

But..

MM forgot that's its "real" customer was the downline average browser, not the webmaster. As far as the average Jo Bob browser was concerned all MM did was to make sure they got the flash plugin installed on as many machines and browsers as possible. Their marketing mix to segments was poor.

Its a hole that can be dug out of sure, but it will take a lot of re-marketing by MM and lots of posts like yours!

Cheers and good luck...

amznVibe




msg:604057
 8:35 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I block all .swf in my filter, LoL
and active-x is blocked for internet access.
Browsing tends to be more peaceful that way.
But I guess I am not the typical website visitor... ;)

pissant




msg:604058
 10:59 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

hey amznVibe tell us why you block flash?
I'm just interested

4eyes




msg:604059
 11:35 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have flash disabled for most of my browsing. It would be nice to get rid of the annoying pop-up - I know flash is not installed, its deliberate and I don't need reminding every time I hit a flash site.

Why do I disable flash?

My e-mail filters block any e-mails sent containing certain words. Experience has shown that I will miss very few good e-mails but save some time by not having to read nasty annoying spam.

My main browser (Mozilla) has flash turned off for the same reasons. Most flash web sites irritate me. Sure there are a few good examples, but I am happy to ignore those in exchange for a little more control.

When I get the 'install flash please' box, I hit cancel - usually followed by the back button. Doesn't save me much time I admit, but it creates the illusion that I am in control. Each time I see a 'bad' use of Flash it increases my stress levels - shouldn't let it do, I know, but I am stuck with it.

If I really have to look at a flash site I boot up IE6

My guess is that others feel the same.

I'm not knocking flash - just don't like having to see bad use of flash, which IMO is the majority.

I am not suggesting anyone else should do the same, its just a personal choice.

richardb




msg:604060
 1:22 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yep it's a pain and it's in the main down to the design comps using it without thinking about the end user.

From a design POV companies should use a plugin to check and then redirect if Flash, Shockwave, QT, Live Audio... cannot be detected.

BTW I love Flash (I get very excited when I'm asked to use it - sad but true) but I know the feeling... ...version 5.11.0233333 is out and you cannot be bothered.

Rich

Islander




msg:604061
 1:24 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just like 4eyes, I disable Flash in Mozilla and switch to IE when I need to view Flash content.

I do it with CSS in my userContent.css file:


applet, object, embed, iframe {display: none}

TheDave




msg:604062
 1:41 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I had flash installed up until about a year ago, I guess. I distinctly remember a flash site, where the flash ad overflowed onto the bulk of the page, and that was the last straw. I have seen one impressive flash site, which someone pointed out to me a while ago when we were having a similar argument over flash, a site devoted to showing off flash. Sure it was cool, and at least it wasnt advertising, but it was not nearly enough to make me want to install flash again when I formatted my computer. Thanks for the tip on blocking ActiveX controls, I'll have a look for that now :)

crosenblum




msg:604063
 2:17 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I personally like flash but only for entertainment, I would never ever use it for any kind of content or ecommerce.

It makes no sense for that.

Text is easier to modify and update and change, and people read text. They want to not have to struggle to find out something they are after.

Flash has good parts and bad parts like any internet technology. And i do not think that's where the future of the net is going, for regular websites. For entertainment and multimedia, sure no problem, that actually makes sense.

It is so non-trendy to be a usability junkee. Because people would have rather have a cool site that sells very little, and people don't want to visit, then use common sense to build sites that people can figure out how to navigate so they can get to the products/service or information they are after.

Websites, good ones that is, are there to help people get what they want. Why create obstacles to your own financial success?

I do not care about trends, that is 99% bs. I prefer practical, how can I better help the customer get to what I want to sell them.

NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!

gsx




msg:604064
 4:54 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Flash crashes my machine on a very regular basis - that's the reason I don't allow it either. (And it's not badly written Flash files - it's the Flash programme itself - very inconsistent)

1milehgh80210




msg:604065
 7:40 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I usually back out of flash sites as soon as they start to load.
Never seen flash that I was glad I (-waited for-)!

DrDoc




msg:604066
 8:08 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Islander, just curious .. but why do you include iframes in the
display:none;?

And, the only reason why Flash ever became a huge thing is because of Gabo Whatever-his-last-name-is .. and www.gabocorp.com

pissant




msg:604067
 8:21 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

crosenblum
"I personally like flash but only for entertainment, I would never ever use it for any kind of content or ecommerce.

It makes no sense for that.

Text is easier to modify and update and change, and people read text. They want to not have to struggle to find out something they are after. "

Funny thing is I often think that flash for entertainment is one of the most poorly used aspects of flash, but that is just me.
I know I will never convince anyone to love flash, but bear in mind that as far as content goes, well until DOM level 1 is fully supported on most browsers flash is the best way to dynamically present information which changes as the users needs evolve.
But some people want the internet to be mostly text, with just the occasional image thrown in (I'm thinking Jakob N here)
as for text being easier to update and change, well actually that is usually how I handle content in a flash movie, with text files, but I usually give a client the option of a cms gui to update...

gmiller




msg:604068
 9:56 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Personally, I don't have Flash installed for any of my browsers. There just don't seem to be many sites out there that need it. Unfortunately, web browsers aren't the only software that tries to display Flash content. Ad-supported software frequently displays that same dialog, stealing focus from any other application I might be using at the time.

Chris_D




msg:604069
 11:17 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think I know why they call it 'flash'..... if you go to Dictionary.com.......

flash
\Flash\, a. 1. Showy, but counterfeit; cheap, pretentious, and vulgar; as, flash jewelry; flash finery.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

flash
adj : tastelessly showy; "a flash car"; "a flashy ring"; "garish colors"; "a gaudy costume"; "loud sport shirts"; "a meretricious yet stylish book"; "tawdry ornaments" [syn: brassy, cheap, flashy, garish, gaudy, gimcrack, loud, meretricious, tacky, tatty, tawdry, trashy] <SNIP>
Source: WordNet 1.6, 1997 Princeton University

flash
<file format, World-Wide Web> (Or "Shockwave Flash") A file
format for delivering interactive vector graphics and
animation on the World-Wide Web, developed by Macromedia.

Yep. Flash. The name says it all. I'm sure that there are some valid uses for it on the internet.....

But personally - when I want to watch movies - I prefer it to be my choice, in my time - and I'd prefer to go to the cinema or get a video. If 'flash' websites give me that choice - then fine - but most don't - so I choose to not have flash loaded (and keep saying 'no').

erthworm




msg:604070
 1:01 am on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

There seem to be a lot of folks here bashing Flash, but I'm not quite sure why. To me it's a case of "kill the messenger." Flash is no different from HTML or Java or any other tool for viewing content on the Web. All of them require some sort of software, and all of them can be used well or used badly. Flash, because it is much less rigidly structural and much more malleable than standard HTML, can actually help create Web content that's easy to use and quick to load. The fact that many sites don't use it that way is an argument against those sites, not against the tool.

To refuse to install Flash simply because you haven't seen any good use for it seems kind of closed-minded to me. Maybe I'll uninstall my Web browser since most of the websites I've seen are pretty useless, too.

As far as wanting to get rid of the annoying pop-up - why not just install it? So what if you come upon some Flash content every once in a while? If you don't want to see it, just back out, it's got to be better than swatting down that install reminder every time you encounter a Flash banner ad.

chiyo




msg:604071
 2:40 am on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

erthwrm..

have you seriously read this thread befor posting this.

>>All of them require some sort of software<<

Flash and Java needs a plug in separate from the basic browser. HTML does not. It is the basis of any standard Web browser that is standard for accessing the Web. Flash is proprietary as well.

>>Flash, because it is much less rigidly structural and much more malleable than standard HTML<<

? Please explain more...

>>To refuse to install Flash simply because you haven't seen any good use for it seems kind of closed-minded to me<<

If you browse this thread again, you will see most people here dont like installing flash because of the interruptions it can cause to browsing the Web; the fact that flash content is currenlty perceived as not worth the hassle and overhead of the flash viewer software is decidely a secondary reason.

Given your reasoning, we would be continually downloading plug ins for masses of "hopefuls". At last look there were were hundreds of browser add ons like this. The browser user has to make a decision what not to downlaod and what not to. Each requires more overhead in terms of memory use, disk space, maintenance, and application opening time. Why download a viewer just on the chance you will come across content that needs it?

There have been some good arguments in this thread from flash developers on why we should be taking flash more seriously. But I cant understand your arguments.

pissant




msg:604072
 3:17 am on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Iwas gonna leave all this alone, but...
there is always a but

">>All of them require some sort of software<<

Flash and Java needs a plug in separate from the basic browser. HTML does not. It is the basis of any standard Web browser that is standard for accessing the Web. Flash is proprietary as well. "

Actually you can happily view flash without a browser, and there are even a couple of experimental flash based browser apps... though they currently only support very limited html.
Oh and the flash format, .swf is actually open source not proprietary

>>Flash, because it is much less rigidly structural and much more malleable than standard HTML<<

? Please explain more...

I don't necessarily agree with this statement but the first respondent may be refering to the way that flash in modern rich internet applications has the ability of reducing multipage html workflow to single screens, this kind of thing could be very useful in e-commerce for example. Instead of going through five or six pages to complete your order you could do it all in one easy screen. if you don't think it can be done go to the macromedia site and look at their pet market example (but you will need flash =)

Othoer uses of flash, well how about PDFs? well the acrobat reader weighs in at ten times the size of flash and there are ways currently to make flash apps do everything that a PDF can do, at a quarter the size... would this be worthwhile?

Obviously I like flash, and see its possibilities rather than its past, that of course doesn't mean that everyone has to use it. Of course the flash player is more installed than any other internet tool... including browsers! To me that gives me a reason to develop for it, but also there is the fact that flash is spreading away from the internet from ATMs to PDAs to TV...

anyway all those of you who don't like flash, please reevaluate your position every once in a while, flash now does not equal flash in 2000 and wont equal flash in 2004

Duckula




msg:604073
 3:45 am on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Slightly offtopic, but I'd just heard of this hint and may be perfect for those on the same predicament and on *nix or OSX.

1. If the plugin is installed, turn off all the permisions (chmod a-rwx libflashplayer.so). The browser will of course not ask to install it, and the program will be unable to open it, therefore not creating the embedded objects. A simple chmod a+rwx fully restores funcionality without a browser restart. Maybe Win32 permissions can do something similar, I can't test right now.

2. On Mozilla delete the libnullplugin.so library and the browser will stop asking to install missing plugins.

applet, object, embed, iframe {display: none}

nifty...

Finder




msg:604074
 4:59 am on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

If I could tell Flash (or Mozilla) not to loop the playback, then maybe I would have left it installed. I am so distracted by anything moving on the screen that I can't focus on the content. I don't understand why the product has so few configuration options.

Islander




msg:604075
 2:37 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

DrDoc, I started suppressing
iframe elements to block ads on c-net News:

[news.com.com ]

erthworm




msg:604076
 4:31 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

To respond to a couple of questions about my earlier post - I don't understand the comparison between installing the Flash plug-in and installing one of the thousands of other plug-ins that are available. My point was that Flash is downright ubiquitous on the Web (over 90% of users can view it if we believe Macromedia) so to refuse to install it is disregarding a lot of content, some of which may be as good and as relevant as anything you can view with your standard browser.

And chiyo, I wasn't serious about uninstalling my browser, just making the point that everything on the Web requires some sort of software for viewing. Just because Flash uses a plug-in doesn't really make it different from an HTML browser.

pissant, i think you understood me about Flash being more "malleable" than HTML. From a design perspective you can create applications in Flash that are even MORE useable than HTML because you're not limited by the inherent structural requirements of HTML code. I admit that you can do some great stuff with CSS, dHTML, etc.

I guess from my perspective I just don't understand the attitude that certain people have about Flash being somehow inherently detrimental to the Web browsing experience. It's like blaming your television for the fact that it can show the "Anna Nicole Smith Show." (no offense to any fans) ;)

pissant




msg:604077
 3:05 am on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have a wee question for people...
what application(if anything) of flash would
a)make you want to see flash again
and
b)make you stay if you already have flash

all in the ideal of making the web a better place...
;)

chiyo




msg:604078
 4:07 am on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

interesting question pissant.

I would think that would be the case when people dont even know its Flash! When it integrates so smoothly in the users browsing experience that the technology used is far less apparant than the message to be conveyed. In Flash's case, when the medium does NOT become the message!

erthworm




msg:604079
 2:48 pm on Jan 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

chiyo,

does that mean that the only legitimate use of Flash is one that essentially mimics HTML? once something becomes animated or displays video, then you're definitely going to take notice. at what point does the medium overwhelm the message?

i feel that flash is being used in significantly better ways on the Web than it used to be, so it's frustrating that some aren't willing to give it a chance. there are fewer useless intros and stupid animations and more quality content. i'm a web developer, and i strive to integrate flash in ways that actually enhance the user's experience. i can give good examples if anyone's interested.

This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34 ( [1] 2 > >
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