| 11:29 pm on Apr 16, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I suspect when AOL buys RedHat ;) that all of AOL's projects will be running Netscape (:
| 11:31 pm on Apr 16, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Hold tight everyone... soon to be HOT TOPIC!
Any Compuserve users out there?
| 3:16 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Great! Not a moment too soon. All you Mozilla volunteers should be feeling pretty good right now.
| 3:23 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Sure glad I didn't write off that .000001% using Netscape 6 as insignificant and not build compliant sites ;)
| 3:31 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
At last....hopefully some real competition back on the net. Can only be good!
| 3:38 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
First thought is how did they integrate it into their software? It is easy on windows to integrate MSIE into any application as long as IE4.0 is on the computer (you need wininet.dll to create MSIE apps), - Very easy to create your own custom browser, but it relies on the IE code. Will Mozilla run in its own window? or will it run under the CS/AOL window like MSIE did?
My second thought is how will Mozilla handle the .art files that are served up by the AOL servers? Will jpg's still be fouled up?
| 3:44 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I wonder how many downloads of Mozilla and NN6.x have occurred in these past few weeks. I wonder how many will occur in the upcoming weeks. Will we see Mozilla 1.0.0 momentarily?
| 3:47 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
| 4:10 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Although I hate NN4.x and hate the speed od NN6.x, I was really surprised with Mozilla - rather fast and with no mistakes!
So, competition is back..
Economy theory says COMPETITION IS A MUST! That leads to further development and improvements..
| 6:44 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
This is great news! Very glad to see that aol is supporting Mozilla. I finally got around to downloading Mozilla 0.9.9 and I think it is great.
| 6:59 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
One point that is not mentioned.... many, very many of AOL's customers do not use the AOL client browser, instead opting for the "un-fettered" (AOL-wise) MSIE on their Windows machines.
They use AOL as their ISP/MAIL client only.
I had to uninstall both NN6.2.1 and Mozilla 0.99 on my Win98SE machine... both were causing lockups at launch. I uninstalled, re-installed, repeatedly (after going through the system looking for anything amiss - everything checked out a.okay), didn't have anymore time (or desire)to pursue it further. Opera 6.02 and MSIE6 are both running perfectly. I'll try again later this week.
| 7:18 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|It is easy on windows to integrate MSIE into any application as long as IE4.0 is on the computer (you need wininet.dll to create MSIE apps), - Very easy to create your own custom browser, but it relies on the IE code. |
I guess it would be about as easy with Mozilla. There is already a project that's dedicated to the Mozilla ActiveX control, so that you too can embed Mozilla and its rendering engine into your custom browser. Moreover, there's a tool that find all the applications on your box that use IE ActiveX control, and replace them with Moz control (in binary level) :)
Web site for the Mozilla ActiveX control.
| 8:57 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Ok, So AOL is testing the Netscape plan on their little smarter brother. If if fails on Compuserve they will not try it on AOL. So this is the real test. AOL regards compuserve as AOL for smarter people.
Watch the Compuserve test very closely! The future of AOL will follow. If the Netscape plan succeeds on Compuserve then AOL will follow.
But I have a sneaky feeling that Netscape plan will bomb.
| 11:38 am on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
it is a pilot test, and AOL is somehow obliged to build its own competitive browser and to succeed. I think they have no choice there.
| 12:47 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
America Online subsidiary CompuServe has quietly added Google's paid search results to its Web site, publishing the sponsored listings alongside similar links provided by rival Overture Services.
- Mar 25 7:44 PM ET
| 12:57 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|Sure glad I didn't write off that .000001% using Netscape 6 as insignificant and not build compliant sites |
Gotta be a winner in the 'standards' field. More competion is a definate step in the right direction for valid code etc.
Like it :)
| 3:52 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I hope this development lasts about as long as Time-Warner's attempt to make everyone use AOL Mail for business. When people had to resort to Fedex and bicycle messengers, they finally gave up. The need for multi-platform design and testing will reduce the productivity of web designers everywhere. After years of checking in multiple browsers, I was finally getting comfortable with the idea of relegating Netscape users to the same fate as 640-width screen users... "your obsolete technology is your problem, not mine". :)
| 4:41 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Lisa, any reasons to your feeling that Compu-Netscape will bomb, or just intuition?
| 4:44 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I didn't even know Compuserve really still existed. I saw the commercials for a while - I saw @ some convention in vegas when AOL first bought em up but does anyone use them? Will the use of NS in Compuserve even be noticed? I remember the oldschool 19219283.1231929@compuserve ;)
| 5:48 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|After years of checking in multiple browsers, I was finally getting comfortable with the idea of relegating Netscape users to the same fate as 640-width screen users... "your obsolete technology is your problem, not mine" |
That's why we have standards :-)
In 1997 that stuff was real common but all sites can work on all browsers and it's not so tough to do.
That's why I like this idea, it could drive another nail in the 'this site is optimizied for my computer' coffin.
| 5:50 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Compuserve... I'm surprised they haven't rolled compuserve into AOL. What's the point of owning two proprietary networks, that virtually serve the same purpose?
Are people really going to distinguish the crap that AOL serves from the Compuserve crusty dung-bunker?
Didn't think so.
| 5:57 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
nwilson: "In 1997 that stuff was real common but all sites can work on all browsers and it's not so tough to do."
HAH! It would be nice if Netscape followed standards more closely, like CSS for instance. If they really gave a cross-eyed 'F' about standards they wouldn't have ignored one of the most tantilizing standards that's been around for YEARS! CSS.
There implementation is pure trash. I hate Netscape with a fiery passion, and don't relish the idea of catering to millions of AOL customers forced to use netscape. What a nightmare. Sub par.
| 6:12 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|HAH! It would be nice if Netscape followed standards more closely, like CSS for instance. If they really gave a cross-eyed 'F' about standards they wouldn't have ignored one of the most tantilizing standards that's been around for YEARS! CSS. |
My point is that their is no need to make pages accessible to only certain types of browser/platform environments.
Anyone can make pages that work across all browsers.
| 6:31 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
>> Anyone can make pages that work across all browsers.
I agree, and it's actually not that hard. Well, not if you have some kind of web designing experience. All you have to do is keep doing what you're already doing. I can understand if it's a pain for newbies or web design illiterate people, though.
meannate: You say that NN doesn't follow standards? So, one might ask - in your opinion, which browser DOES follow standards? There's no such thing as a browser that follows W3C standards 100% .. and that won't happen as long as we have competitors on the market.
| 6:45 pm on Apr 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I feel the Compuserve test will fail because Compuserve and AOL are build on a windows Operating System. There is no MAC version. So when it comes to building something on Microsoft's backyard. If they don't want you there they will shake the ground on you.
I predict AOL will push Dell and other manufactors to install the all NEW AOL OS 9.0 (now with 10,000 hours free). AOL OS will actually be a unix flavor that they aquire and force the unix programmers at the new company to adapt it to AOL users.
| 5:07 pm on Apr 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
What I'm saying mostly is that Netscape is notorious for introducing proprietary standards, as well as Internet Explorer, to a lesser extent.
Programming is very serious to me, a passion. I code everything by hand, and spend a great deal of time researching techniques and theory. Having to delegate a major amount of my time to custom workarounds is, to me, frustrating, maybe you enjoy it.
There is an inherent sense to the way IE handles HTML, I'm not saying it's the best browser under the sun, I'd give that award to Opera. But there is nothing more frustrating than programming a page, having it work on Opera and IE, which most people use (90% plusish), and having that page fall in netscape 4.*, be it CSS non-compliance, or a table graphic shifting... what have you.
Even Netscape 6 has major problems, besides speed. It's buggy. The damn thing crashes half the time. And the over gratuitous use of GUI. It's nauseating to me and reminds me why I hate AOL. Too much stuff going on. Maybe I'm jaded.
Now what's happening? They're forcing Netscape (in my eyes, an inferior product) on hundreds of thousands of users. You say MS does the same thing with IE? You're right. I can't argue that, I don't know what to say.
| 5:25 pm on Apr 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
>>>But I have a sneaky feeling that Netscape plan will bomb
Yeah. But only half as bad as .NET.
This will be a turning point. The public is ripe for moving on to something other than M$...I think they will be patient in the process.
| 5:42 pm on Apr 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I'm assuming from your posts that the main problem is that you haven't downloaded the newest version of modzilla...
It's sooooo much better than NS 4* or even version 6 that I think you'd be pleasantly suprised if you actually used it...
| 6:48 pm on Apr 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Seth... in advance of MeanNate's reply, I had to remove Mozilla 0.99 from my PC because of the continous crashes it was causing. NN6.2.2 as well (Windows never crashed by the way... only Netscape/Mozilla).
It got so neither program would even launch, instead both would hang after asking me if I wanted to make them my default browser... NOT!
I went all through my registry, unistalled, reinstalled... clean downloads, the works. Nothing helped either Mozilla 0.98/0.99 or Netacape 6.2.1/6.2.2 lose enough "bloat" to launch properly on my Win98SE PIII 700 128mb ram machine.
The irony is that while Mozilla (or Netscape 6.2.2) were struggling to launch, I could in fact, launch Opera 6.02 (with 6 tabbed-pages!) and surf to my heart's content.
Of course MSIE 6 launched with no problems either.
I worked on the Moz/Netscape "issue" for a while... even searched the "very populated" Bug-zilla FAQs and forums... all to no avail.
I did however come across an amusing thread on the Mozilla support forum. Several testers were talking about how fast the Opera browser is... and how easy on system resources. Mozilla and Netscape need lots of work... the approval rating for 6.2.2 is a sad 43% at Download.com - not much positive said. It seems that for Netscape fans, those who want a Web Standards compliant browser, and those who have NOT exerienced much of the frustration that others have, Netscape or Mozilla are exactly what they want. For others, the result has not been quite so positive.
I have tried both browsers on other systems.... I'll stick with Opera for its speed, it's reliability and its incredible feature set. Opera works!
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