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This 33 message thread spans 2 pages: 33 ( [1] 2 > >     
iVillage to replace AdSense with YPN
iVillage was one of the high profile AdSense publisher
softwareengineer99




msg:557149
 4:05 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

AdWeek is reporting that iVillage will be replacing Google search and contextual advertising solutions with of Yahoo search and YPN solutions.

In addition, Yahoo's Content Match contextual text advertising will replace Google AdSense advertising on iVillage article pages. Financial terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Article can be accessed here.
[adweek.com...]

I wonder whether other major publishers currently using AdSense will switch to YPN program especially since YPN has the highest min CPC rate.

 

Dantol




msg:557150
 4:11 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

well, what can you do - Google is slowly losing (major) publishers.

dvd1000




msg:557151
 4:25 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

They must have offered better incentives.

jahfingers




msg:557152
 5:59 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google's stock is falling, Yahoo is getting bigger, Yahoo wins the relevancy competition over Google and now they're losing big time Adsense publishers. Things are looking grim for the Big G.

bewarse




msg:557153
 6:31 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

adsense is only for small blogs who can't afford to get paid ads from advertisers.
for someone with a site getting atleast 1 million hits /month, no need to hang around with adsense.
there are better alternatives like YPN(opening soon for all and paying more than google), crispads(which pay 25cents/click and fixed rate for image banners and so on).

one of my colleagues was invited for ypn beta and he abandoned adsense and saw that ypn was paying him more for lesser clicks

Rodney




msg:557154
 7:38 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm sure there will be businesses that decide to try out the competition because of incentives or promises of higher payment, that's nothing new, and certainly not a death sentence for Google.

Who's to say that the Yahoo income won't decrease as time goes on (or as more publishers are in the network).

YPN is less than 2 months old and Adsense is about 2 years old.

When YPN is 2 years old, then it will be interesting to compare apples to apples.

Eltiti




msg:557155
 7:57 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

for someone with a site getting atleast 1 million hits /month, no need to hang around with adsense.

Don't you think iVillage would be large enough to qualify as a Premium publisher?

Visit Thailand




msg:557156
 7:59 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

This could just be a marketing ploy. I am sure they could always switch back if they wanted to and in the meantime they get loads of editorial exposure.

mikeh100




msg:557157
 8:33 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

A lot of people have made very good money with AdSense with nothing more than having to apply to the program with a valid and working website. Before jumping ship, I hope people realise what AdSense has done for them!

Even if more money may be made elsewhere I respect the opportunity that AdSense gave me and I wont move for an extra 5% or 10%.

Given that ad revenue is an additional source of revenue for most of us, a small percentage increase is not going to make a huge difference.

Just my opinion, others may disagree.

wsp9




msg:557158
 8:52 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Changing from Google to Yahoo would be a major decision and was probably made by the board of directors at IVIL. Someone who owns a good chunk of shares at both IVIL and YHOO or possibly sits on both boards most likely initiated this one - standard corporate politics at the highest levels.

cellularnews




msg:557159
 9:45 am on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

for someone with a site getting atleast 1 million hits /month, no need to hang around with adsense.
there are better alternatives like YPN(opening soon for all and paying more than google), crispads(which pay 25cents/click and fixed rate for image banners and so on).

I would not switch to an add company paying a pathetic US$0.25 per click.

Not all sites are equal, and mine - a business focused site - gets vastly higher click revenues as the ad terms are very competitive and high paying.

I will look at Yahoo as an option, but I would need a lot of openess about the eCPM's they would expect to offer before I would switch sides.

cyberair




msg:557160
 2:15 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

iVillage is a premium publisher and deals are different. Although terms weren't disclosed, I wouldn't be surprised if they negotiated a CPM floor and/or higher PPC rates than what they had been getting with Adsense.

ShunT




msg:557161
 3:11 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google's major publisher fall came with the leaving of two of their poster children (Dogster & Catster) for making money with Google's AdSense program (i.e. mentioned in google case studies, press releases and articles). They tried Revenue Science and as of recently decided to completely stop using Google. Their CEO wrote a very positive blog about RSI entitled "AdSense no longer makes sense to us": [spideysenses.com...]

You can also read this article from Adweek: [adweek.com...]

Makes for a good read. Adsense not only has to worry about just YPN.

calman




msg:557162
 3:23 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

It is far too early to draw any conclusions as to the impact of Yahoo's entry into the contextual advertising market.

1) Their program is still in beta. A lot of things are likely to change with their program over the next few months.

2) It is not reasonable to draw any implications from the switch of iVillage to Yahoo from Google. They operate in a totally different corporate space from the majority of small publishers.

3) Google is likely to respond to Yahoo's entry into the marketplace. I suspect we will see numerous changes in the AdSense program in the coming months.

On a personal level, I will simply wait for a few months and assess the situation at that time. I am generally happy with the AdSense program even though they clearly have a number of problems that they need to address.

europeforvisitors




msg:557163
 3:37 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

iVillage is a premium publisher and deals are different. Although terms weren't disclosed, I wouldn't be surprised if they negotiated a CPM floor and/or higher PPC rates than what they had been getting with Adsense.

That's the most likely explanation. But AdSense probably isn't a great fit for iVillage anyway. Google's automated contextual targeting works best on niche content, while Yahoo's "human-edited" approach (which sounds to me like site targeting) may be a better choice for general-interest news/entertainment/portal sites like iVillage.

Never_again




msg:557164
 3:42 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

And, any reduction in the number of publishers using AdSense can only help the remaining publishers as long as the ad inventory remains stable.

calman




msg:557165
 3:52 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thanks ShunT for the heads up on the article:

1) I notice that Dogster and Catster are presently still running Google AdSense. In a very brief look at the two sites, I did not see any evidence of any other ads. I can only presume that the change to Revenue Science is to come in the future.

2) The article makes a lot of sense. Many of the ads that Google serves on my site simply do not correlate properly to the interests of the audience even though they relate to the content on the page. In many other cases, the bot simply gives up attempting to determine the content of the page and does not serve up AdSense ads whatsoever. Hopefully, they will give some of the smaller publishers the authority to use the google_kw and google_kw_type attributes that are presently available only to larger publishers. I would definitely like to be able to send triggers to AdSense as to what ads to feed to certain pages. I know my audience. I also know that by doing this, I could increase both my own and Google's revenue. Possibly the new competition that they are facing will help speed up the process.

hdpt00




msg:557166
 4:24 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Even if more money may be made elsewhere I respect the opportunity that AdSense gave me and I wont move for an extra 5% or 10%.

Try telling that to thousands and thousands of sharholders, they'd be happy to hear how loyal yo are, instead of mkaing more money. For them that extra few % could mean the difference between beating the street or falling flat.

softwareengineer99




msg:557167
 11:12 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

iVillage originally joined AdSense in 2003 and at that time it was a big deal for G as they were one of the major publishers.

IMO, iVillage is very targeted to its niche and among the top Internet properties.

I'm also reading that YPN aims to provide phone support to publishers. Phone support can be a big conversion factor for Y.

<added>
Couple months ago YPN may not have been a big threat. However, at the moment, I feel differently.

Did anyone catch this statement in a recent Y! Press Release
"With the completion of the deployment, Yahoo! Search Technology will power nearly half of all online searches in the U.S." - Yahoo!

Do you think Y can live up to their claim?

danimal




msg:557168
 11:44 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

<snip>

imagine that, they got more clicks because they knew what kind of ads to serve up to their audience.

my "widget" sites have some very relevant search phrases that bring up 14 million+ results on a google search, but none of the associated adwords advertising ever shows up on my site... because i don't specifically use the search phrase in my website text.

so because i have no real control over what ads get shown on my site, everyone involved loses out... calman hit the nail on the head, let's hope that google is listening.

[edited by: Jenstar at 1:31 am (utc) on Aug. 19, 2005]
[edit reason] No blog links, as per TOS [/edit]

Leosghost




msg:557169
 11:53 pm on Aug 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Rsi's approach just does what admen have always known ..sorted target audiences are worth more to you than bulk traffic .."G"'s adsense system has always been "bulk traffic" ...effective but nowhere near as effective as similar interest purchases ..for years we used to identify "marks" as coming from defined socio economic groupings with definable puchasing patterns and interests ..apparently someone just reinvented the wheel..

Real commercial sites ( IE with a genuine product ..even if said product is just info ) will leave adsense ..

Made for adsense sites will not be able to make the move due to lack of money , understanding or "goods" ...

Advertisers like targetted ..ROI ..adsense from an advertisers point of view is not good ROI..

ShunT




msg:557170
 1:18 am on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

The only thing is RSI has been mainly for large networks (espn, abc, wall street journal, myspace, ect). They approached me and I will be working with them over the next few weeks to get their ads up and running. Since their main reason for switching from adsense is sites that have already done so are making 2x or even 3x more, it will be interesting to see how they perform for us.

Oh the wonders of competition....

webnoob




msg:557171
 1:41 am on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google will loose publishers over Yahoo, i can tell you why:

cheap people on adsense bidding $0.01 on ads, and google allows it! if i were google i would do two things:

let the adword customers bid $0.01 -- but allow the publisher to block them! you'd see people would bid more. i dont know about you, but i certainly as hell wouldnt let anyone advertise on my site for a penny a click.

a friend of mines was invited to the yahoo publishing network and he has yet see any clicks for less than $0.20. while i am not saying yahoo is better, its certainly started off way better than adsense ever did.

right now the only way you can contact google is by email.. and it takes DAYS to hear back from them and most of the time it's a canned/preset automated message. you can't say they get many emails so they are busy.. yes they're probably busy but guess what? a normal company would hire more employees!

europeforvisitors




msg:557172
 1:58 am on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

"G"'s adsense system has always been "bulk traffic" ...effective but nowhere near as effective as similar interest purchases ..for years we used to identify "marks" as coming from defined socio economic groupings with definable puchasing patterns and interests ..apparently someone just reinvented the wheel..

I think you're comparing apples and oranges:

apples = niche publications and Web sites that reach special-interest audiences (such as POPULAR PHOTOGRAPHY or AMERICAN DRYCLEANER).

oranges = general-interest publications whose audiences are defined by demographics and psychographics (such as THE NEW YORKER or THE NEW YORK POST).

AdSense is very strong in the "apples" category. If you want to reach travelers who are looking for hotel rooms in Shelbyville or camera enthusiasts who want to buy carbon-fiber tripods, AdSense's contextual targeting was made for you.

AdSense is obviously weaker in the "oranges" category. If you're trying to reach upscale suburban strivers who aren't car enthusiasts but might be persuaded to impress their neighbors by purchasing a Jaguar, you'll have trouble reaching them with AdSense. You'd be better off with an ad in THE NEW YORKER or CONDE NAST TRAVELER.

Advertisers like targetted ..ROI ..adsense from an advertisers point of view is not good ROI...

Really? Quite a few advertisers would disagree with that. Again, it depends on what you're selling, what audience you're trying to reach, what you need to pay, and whether contextual targeting limits your audience to people who are interested in--and able to buy--your product or service.

There's no such thing as a "one size fits all" advertising solution--which is why AMERICAN DRYCLEANER and POPULAR PHOTOGRAPHY exist alongside THE NEW YORKER and THE NEW YORK POST.

asinah




msg:557173
 2:10 am on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think in terms of Travel and financial content, Adsense does very well. I very seldom notice 1c clicks on those content pages.

danimal




msg:557174
 3:58 am on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>camera enthusiasts who want to buy carbon-fiber tripods<<<

camera enthusiasts also buy lots of digital storage cards, but adsense won't put up an ad for that on a tripod page.

europeforvisitors




msg:557175
 5:49 am on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

camera enthusiasts also buy lots of digital storage cards, but adsense won't put up an ad for that on a tripod page.

Probably not, but so what? AdSense is a network that aggregates impressions and clicks from many different sites. As long as AdSense can serve enough ads for digital storage cards on contextually targeted pages, the ad budget gets spent and the advertiser gets his or her leads.

Leosghost




msg:557176
 10:56 am on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

europeforvisitors ..

I wasn't trying to disparage the model of those sites such as yours which I think work very well for just that knid of unfocused "I'm just window shopping or surfing to kill time or interested but not quite sure " type of surfer ..however even with the revenue stream of Google from adwords and adsense the vast majority of the adverstising money in the world is spent by professional agencies ..they ..when they advertise on the web prefer to go "direct" with the website owners ( look at the real authority sites in any area ..few if any run adsense ..most deal direct with their advertisers or their agents ..as can be seen from the quality and design of the ads )..and the ROI is a great deal better that way ..Overtures model was always preferred by those who weren't trying to sell to any passing surfer but had a very specific item to sell and knew where and when to get "targetted eyeballs" ..

Googles traffic is obviously much better than the real horrors of "bulk traffic" such as kanoodle ..but is still unfocused ...possibly a better analogy would be to place the "random third world paid clickers for sale" such as kanoodle ( who send folks with no money or clickbots ) in the category of "folks walking aimlessly by your in your neighbourhood" ..where maybe you have a "speciality store" or a "wally world" or a" mom and pop outfit" ...Google sends those looking for fruit in general to the fruit aisle of the store if it has one via adwords in serps ..and if it's via adsense you get them ..but they come via the foodhall and the breakfast cereal with added fruit aisle first ( where maybe they get distracted and think of something else ..and so go and by toothpaste or whatever :)...

What RSI are doing is going out on the street and asking who like really good fruit ..and asking only those that have shopping bags and wallets or purses with 'em ..then offering to bring them in by the side door right next to the mangos and brush down their coat while they look at the mangos and the higher priced exotic fruit ...If you are only selling mangos the ROI is way better ..

We have an outfit here in France which works on a similar basis ..they retail fruit and vegetables from inside of another general goods store..they pay no fixed rent ..but they do pay a fixed percentage of their gross daily turnover as their rental for floorspace ..so if they sell nothing they pay nothing ..sell a lot pay more ..the costs of their fruit and veg are corresponding lower to the customers than their competitors who have fixed overheads unrelated to their turnover ..

So every one wins ..

Y with RSI is I beleive attempting something more similar to this latter model ...

But it is a model that I beleive only agencies with the staff and expertise to watch their sales and ad budget stats very carefully can and will move over to ... ( Y is also inherently slightly more of what one could describe as a targetted eyeballs provider due to it's directory model ..although the differences are not huge ) ...most smaller outfits will continue to use the Adwords adsense "unfocused" model due to time staff or lack of specialist ability to track ..and It can be cheap and effective advertising ..

It may also well be that G left it somewhat too late to try to do something to clean up the adsense environment ( from an advertisers point of view) ..it appeared and still does in some areas more interested in it's own immediate revenue stream ( allowing scrapers etc ) than looking after it's paying customers ..That was lack of foresite ..I presume they were to busy counting the money to look up to watch the expressions on the adwords customers faces ...

This may help them to refocus "their own attention" on their own user and customer experience ..as they exhort their publishers to do so ..

They are diversifying into other media also ..but it still isn't a good idea to let the standards of ones core business slide as they have done in the last 18 months ..

I can see there being space for some time to come for all the models to function ..merely the money spread will change ..

In the meantime ..I hope that your success continues ..as a European ... your site is what I would call a usefull ressource for those wishing to come ..would that all sites running adsense were as conscientious..:)

vincevincevince




msg:557177
 11:28 am on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I can see that a more competitive market will mean:

1 - more of a market for SEM to manage multiple networks
2 - pressure to keep up EPC
3 - knock on testing and retesting by advertisers

europeforvisitors




msg:557178
 3:20 pm on Aug 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I wasn't trying to disparage the model of those sites such as yours which I think work very well for just that knid of unfocused "I'm just window shopping or surfing to kill time or interested but not quite sure " type of surfer

Actually, niche sites like mine are geared toward readers who are researching ways to spend their money. The reader of CONDE NAST TRAVELER or TRAVEL + LEISURE may be an armchair traveler, but my readers are more like the readers of a Lonely Planet or Rick Steves guidebook--they're planning a trip and they want to spend money on hotels, rental cars, rail passes, etc. In other words, their demographics are less important than their intentions. That's why AdSense is a good match for sites like mine (just as affiliate links are, to judge from my affiliate earnings).

As for your statement that most advertising is bought by agencies, I think that's true if one remembers that "professional agencies" include a lot of one-person shops. But Madison Avenue ad agencies' share of the pot has been eroding steadily over the past several decades, and huge sums of money are being spent on sales promotion, collateral, direct response, etc. these days. (Not to mention local advertising.) AdSense doesn't have to compete with the Super Bowl broadcast for advertising dollars; it merely needs its share of the billions that are being spent on direct marketing.

I agree that Google has some credibility problems with AdSense. However, Google has begun taking steps to address those problems, such as limited domain blocking for advertisers and site-targeted CPM ads. Too little and too late? It's too early to tell.

But I think we're wandering off topic a bit. The issue at hand (I think) is whether iVillage's switch from Google to Yahoo is significant. I don't believe it is--partly because Yahoo probably offered iVillage incentives that were too good to resist, and partly because sites like iVillage aren't ideally suited to automated contextual advertising. iVillage is more like REDBOOK or COSMOPOLITAN than POPULAR PHOTOGRAPHY or AAA SOUTHERN TRAVELER.

This 33 message thread spans 2 pages: 33 ( [1] 2 > >
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