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Adbrite Says it is Allowed on the same page as Adsense - AdSense Says!?
Did or did not Google approve of it?
asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 8:18 pm on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've been contacted by AdBrite a bunch of times about putting their ads up on my site. I told them "no" because after trying them they simply couldn't compete with Adsense in terms of the revenue brought in.

To my surprise, an Adbrite rep now claims that they have Google's blessings to appear on the same page as Adsense. The following is paraphrased from the letter they wrote to me, to comply with WW's ToS.

Our CEO was on a panel with the Google founders at a recent music festival and someone asked them a question about Google’s thoughts on AdBrite and they said that AdBrite is the perfect compliment to Google.

She then said that there is a loophole in Google's ToS, that because the ads are free standing (it doesn’t look blocked like the google ads) and because the ads aren’t contextual, they are allowed to appear on the same page.

I'm kind of surprised by this. Even if there's a "loophole" why would the Google founders publically endorse a competitor whose ads look similar? That's not exactly something a shareholder would like to see. Something strikes me as odd about this (though I do hope that it's a legitimate claim).

This thread seems to agree with my gut reaction: that common thought is it is not allowed.
[webmasterworld.com...]

I checked with Google and haven't heard back. I'll update here when I do with a clarification.

I'm posting this in the Adsense forum (rather than the affiliate section), because it's very important that Adsense publishers be aware of these claims and seek independant verification from Google before signing up, (should other third party reps be telling them this, too).

 

ronin

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 7:57 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Where is AdSenseAdvisor in the midst of all of this?

AdSenseAdvisor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 8:10 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clearing up any confusion since some of you have been told by the Adsense support team that AdBrite ads aren't allowed to be displayed with AdSense--

Our policy on not displaying ads alongside ads from other contextual networks remains the same. For clarification- ads that are sold directly by the publisher are ok to display with AdSense, which would include AdBrite.

ASA

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 8:15 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Major thanks for clearing that up.

asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 9:01 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

AWESOME!

longen

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 9:31 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>ads that are sold directly by the publisher

What type of ads are they?

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 9:57 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

What type of ads are they?

AdBrite currently offers publishers the ability to sell text and banner ads directly.

ps- Thanks ASA

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 10:24 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I hate to bring this up, but I'm still confused why AdSenseAdvisor has such a definitive answer but everyone seems to give conflicting results from Google support.

Isn't there a central list or database the support team works from that says specific ad programs, including AdBrite, are acceptable or not? If so, why would support tell people NO most of the time and AdSenseAdvisor tell us yes with such certainty?

This doesn't pass the sniff test, something isn't right at the Googleplex....

EVOrange

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 11:20 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Not to mention that poster who said he was contacted by Google and told he could not.

I'm all for it. I hope it is a fact. But....

EVO

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 11:26 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm still confused, too.

I think maybe he meant "ads that are sold on a site-by-site basis" vs. run-of-network ads.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 2:14 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think maybe he meant "ads that are sold on a site-by-site basis" vs. run-of-network ads.

I considered this too but how would Google know which is which?

The language about what is or isn't allowed in conjunction with AdSense is very vague and disconcerting.

janethuggard

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 2:21 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

The only problem with turning off Adbrite network ads, is then you don't get a track record. With no track record, no business will buy your space. They don't want a zero click through ratio. Why would they?

So, the publisher is forced to place network ads on the site, to get a success history.

We originally had 10 ads on pages to achieve that. It gave visitors more choices, and we hoped high click rates. When we saw how bad the ads were, we realized we were defeating ourselves, and we backed off to 3 ads per page. While we try to build get Adbrite sales directly for our site. At one point, inspite of our settings, we found an Adbrite casino ad on our site, every single page of the site... and that jeopardised many accounts we have. That glitch could have cost us a bundle. We made a phone call to AB and about an hour later the ad was removed. We were lucky that time. These are things to think about.

We are now in the process of changing over all pages to a combination of 3 ad companys. Trying to see what might work, and carry through us through the dog days of summer. So far, we are finding that Fastclick has the fastest paying and fastest accumulating revenue. Tweeking the site to incorporate them has been a huge project. Not one likely to finished anytime soon.

However... we had no problem getting Adsense on all the other sites in the network. One, we worked on for a month to convert it to Adsense friendly, and canceled some in-house accounts to accomplish that.

As a note, we were turned down by Adsense on our main site, before we had any ad servers. We were turned down because we had to many in-house ad accounts, I assume. But, they had no problem letting us put the Google search box on the site. To put Adsense on the site now, we would have to pull the Adbrite Ads, cancel all in-house accounts, and place maybe one banner per page.

That is something I would not consider (making the site Adsense friendly) during the dog days of summer. I need my in-house acccounts during the slow season. But, all this mess means we are backlogged by over 1,000 add url free submissions. Right now we are in ad server hell, trying to straighten up the mess, switching ad content has created... *sigh*

It is going to be a verrrry long summer.

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 2:48 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

The only problem with turning off Adbrite network ads, is then you don't get a track record. With no track record, no business will buy your space. They don't want a zero click through ratio. Why would they?

If you turn off AdBrite's run-of-network ads, the system now estimates your clickthrough rate based on a number of factors including traffic, the number of clicks to "Your Ad Here", and more.

It's pretty accurate and once you have one buyer, the real stats kick in.

Thanks,
Philip
Founder, AdBrite

janethuggard

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 4:18 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, Pud, this may be true, but the stats show a huge difference in ratio between when we had 5 ads up, then 10 ads up, finally 3 ads up, considering changes in our entire site traffic, ad impressions, and so on, day by day accounting. Clearly, having more ads up creates a better publisher profile on expected ROI.

It still appears to me, based on my AB stats, that in order to create interest, you have to have ad blocks on every page of the site, and have interesting ads so the visitors will click. Since the network ads are not targeted, our click through rate is very low compare to our rate with Adsense.

The main site I run exclusive Adsense on, gets 1/4 the traffic of my main site, and earns 20 times plus the revenue of the site we have AB on. All things being equal, we are earning 80 times the revenue on the other site.

We are not complaining, just pointing out that the system creates a situation where you must place untargeted network ads on the site, in order to create interest. The more ads you place on your site, the wider variety of ads. You know... we had them exclusive on another site for a few days, until you had an accounting error. We had 25 ads on the page. Then, there was a wide range. Because of the accounting error, we pulled AB from that site, and converted it to Adsense, exclusively, when we never heard back from your co. on the problem. Doesn't matter now...but we have used the system, and tested it front to back... you have to do network ads for it to really begin to pay off, as much as that is.

As a footnote to this...

When you do have direct buyers for your ad space, signed through AB, their ads get NO priority within the network ads. Instead of their ad being placed at the top, with networks ads below, they get randomly mixed in... that is not good either for repeat signups. So, if I put 10 blocks on a page, by buyer may get position #10, at the way bottom of my page. His clicks are lower, and he is unhappy, and does not renew. That, by far, is the biggest problem I see with the system.

cyberair

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 5:08 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, we got ASA to say it's fine! Hmmm.. there's so much confusion. Do you guys think it's worth risking it and putting both ads together, even when other members report G having conflicting stories?

cyberair

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 5:24 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

ads that are sold directly by the publisher are ok to display with AdSense, which would include AdBrite.

Adbrite has two options:

1. "Your Ad Here" - Only the publisher sells the ad

2. "Your Ad Here" + network ads - "Select this mode if you want AdBrite to act more like a traditional contextual ad network, filling your unsold inventory with pay-per-click ads of our choosing."

Option 2 sounds to me like it would break Adsense's TOS.

Did AdsenseAdvisor approve both options, or does his statement points to option 1?

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 5:27 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

I considered this too but how would Google know which is which?

Cause the advertisers advertise it that way, silly.

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 9:50 am on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

> I considered this too but how would Google know which is which?

You know that group that gave Google $20mil to get started? Those are the same guys that funded AdBrite last year. Never under estimate the raw horse power of the 'old boy' network. One phone call can change corporate policy.

cabowabo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 5:29 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

Pud rocks. He is my hero. AdBrite converts well, just steer clear of "Spamford" Wallace. He literally killed my affiliate program revenue because his lack of ethics.

Running both ads on the same page is a waste in my opinion. Run them on different pages throughout your sites. Nothing wrong with more streams of income.

Cheers,

CaboWabo

robsynnott

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 9:19 pm on Apr 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

AdBrite's certainly very nice for sites that CAN'T use AdSense (gambling, adult, political etc.) but the two of them together?

MrSpeed

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 11:58 pm on Apr 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am giving AB a try on a humor site where adsense was doing nothing.

I think the more "mature" theme of the AB ads are working better with the traffic on that site.

One thing I do like about AB is that the stats show you which ads people are clicking on. That's good information so you know which merchants may be worth promoting directly.

kwasher

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 4:06 pm on Apr 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Adbrite has two options:

1. "Your Ad Here" - Only the publisher sells the ad

2. "Your Ad Here" + network ads - "Select this mode if you want AdBrite to act more like a traditional contextual ad network, filling your unsold inventory with pay-per-click ads of our choosing."

Option 2 sounds to me like it would break Adsense's TOS.

Did AdsenseAdvisor approve both options, or does his statement points to option 1?

Yes, it would seem so, yet contextual means it depends on the page content to determine the ad... so if adbrite is reading factors on the page to determine the best type of ad to serve, then you are correct.

If adbrite does not 'read the page' to determine what ad to show, then there is no conflict.

(IMHO)

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 4:48 pm on Apr 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

f adbrite does not 'read the page' to determine what ad to show, then there is no conflict.

AdBrite does not currently 'read the page'.

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