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This 82 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 82 ( 1 [2] 3 > >     
Adbrite Says it is Allowed on the same page as Adsense - AdSense Says!?
Did or did not Google approve of it?
asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 8:18 pm on Mar 29, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've been contacted by AdBrite a bunch of times about putting their ads up on my site. I told them "no" because after trying them they simply couldn't compete with Adsense in terms of the revenue brought in.

To my surprise, an Adbrite rep now claims that they have Google's blessings to appear on the same page as Adsense. The following is paraphrased from the letter they wrote to me, to comply with WW's ToS.

Our CEO was on a panel with the Google founders at a recent music festival and someone asked them a question about Google’s thoughts on AdBrite and they said that AdBrite is the perfect compliment to Google.

She then said that there is a loophole in Google's ToS, that because the ads are free standing (it doesn’t look blocked like the google ads) and because the ads aren’t contextual, they are allowed to appear on the same page.

I'm kind of surprised by this. Even if there's a "loophole" why would the Google founders publically endorse a competitor whose ads look similar? That's not exactly something a shareholder would like to see. Something strikes me as odd about this (though I do hope that it's a legitimate claim).

This thread seems to agree with my gut reaction: that common thought is it is not allowed.
[webmasterworld.com...]

I checked with Google and haven't heard back. I'll update here when I do with a clarification.

I'm posting this in the Adsense forum (rather than the affiliate section), because it's very important that Adsense publishers be aware of these claims and seek independant verification from Google before signing up, (should other third party reps be telling them this, too).

 

Jenstar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jenstar us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 6:57 pm on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

We are trying to get Googles official response to this issue.

The AdSense Support Team told aspbunnies that AdBrite specifically and AdSense are not allowed on the same page, in msg # 20 above.

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 7:04 pm on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

The AdSense Support Team told aspbunnies that AdBrite specifically and AdSense are not allowed on the same page, in msg # 20 above.

Cool. Now could they explain how Adbrite is "competing" and any other kind of ad is not? Is any text ad considered "competing"? Is any kind of contextual ad considered "competing"?

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 7:24 pm on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

The AdSense Support Team told aspbunnies that AdBrite specifically and AdSense are not allowed on the same page, in msg # 20 above.

Yes, some google-flunky doling out knee-jerk replies probably says NO to all ad programs.

I just went back and took a peek at the Google AdSense Program Policies to dissect:

Competitive Ads and Services
We do not permit Google ads or search boxes accessing Google search services to be published on web pages that also contain what could be considered competing ads or services.

Considering all 3rd party ad campaigns are competing with Google, I read this to mean "NO OTHER AD CAMPAIGNS" on the same page.

This would include ads that mimic Google ads or otherwise appear to be associated with Google on your site.

AdBrite doesn't mimic Google, except from the fact that it's a list of text links, kind of hard to disallow all text links for fear someone might think it's Google text.

If you have elected to receive content-based Google ads, this would also include all other content-targeted ads.

OK, best I can tell there are no content specific channels on AdBrite even, certainly not contextual whatsoever.

If you have elected to receive Google search services, this would include other search services on the same site and non-Google query-targeted ads.

AdBrite has nothing to do with search.

We do allow affiliate or limited-text links.

AH HA! "limited-text links" - sounds like AdBrite eh?

Except you go back to the top and it's "competing ads or services" which is everyone reselling ads.

Welcome to hell, enjoy the stay.

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 10:16 pm on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)


As far as I read the Google TOS, it is legit to have them both on the page.

Looks that way to me too.

Thanks Brett, see you at Webmaster World in New Orleans!

asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 8:14 am on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

As far as I read the Google TOS, it is legit to have them both on the page.

At the end of the day, who is the one who decides who is and isn't kicked out of Adsense? You or Google?

Their ToS is vague on the issue at best, but if an employee of their company unequivocally says "No" why would you interpret that as still having room for a yes?

Do what you like, I'm just a little unnerved by Google's outright saying that they don't allow it and AdBrite's speaking on Google's behalf in claiming that they do.

No offense intended Pud and I'm not trying to make this a hot issue for AdBrite (a service I like a lot).

But... should Google decide for whatever reason that they will crack down, Adbrite's public statements can potentially get a lot of webmasters burned. As CEO of the company and someone whose bread and butter are your publishers, please make sure that your publishers aren't relying on potential misinformation even if you are positive it's not.

Get a direct quote from Google that we can rely on and we'll all feel good about it.

Does anyone know if Google has a problem with you selling links directly to advertisers, using the old Paypal and HTML method?

Yes, if the ads look like Googles (a text link and a brief description beneath it). I've been told that I can't have them on the same page as my Adsense ads in the past.

EDIT: Pud, I just noticed you've edited your blog. Thank you.

asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 1:37 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

The following is a warning to publishers using Adsense that Google's official stance on Adsense sharing their page with competitor's ads (specifically Adbrite) is that it is NOT allowed.

Adbrite has just gone public in firmly insisting that Google does allow it.

This just appeared on Adbrite's CEO's blog:

Wednesday, March 30, 2005, 04:26 AM ET
Frequently asked question: I'm a publisher. Can I use AdBrite and Google AdSense on the same page?

Answer: Yes. We're okay with it, Google's okay with it.

[adbrite.com...]

Whether or not Google really does tolerate it (and there are a few examples where it seems that they have so far), the simple fact is that their reply to emails states that they do NOT currently allow it under their ToS (they specifically said Adbrite ads cannot appear simultaneously on the same page with Google ads).

Google does, however, allow the ads to appear at different times on the same page. That seems to be the root of the confusion.

Please be advised of this discrepancy should you be one of the publishers currently doing it. It is definitely against Google's ToS (under their own interpretation) and they can use it as a reason to penalize your account. Publishers are encouraged to check with Google for themselves on this matter, should there be any concern.

More information on this topic here.
[webmasterworld.com...]

Andem

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 6:51 am on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

From what I have read, I would imagine the answer is NO. Definately a no.

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 2:04 am on Apr 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi,

Thanks for caring and for researching this issue. There are hundreds (thousands?) of sites that use both AdSense and adbrite so it's an important question.

I started AdBrite in 2001 (formerly known as HttpAds, then MarketBanker. a couple of years before adsense existed) to make it easy to sell links to my visitors on F---edcompany.com. People wrote me wanting links, so I built a system where I could say, "okay, for $20, you can be in the 'Sponsored Links' section for a week."

That’s how adbrite works. Publishers set their pricing, put a “Your Ad Here” link, and adbrite takes care of billing and everything else.

I don’t think Google has a problem with an AdSense publisher selling a text link to a friend/advertiser/whatever, as long as the ads couldn’t be confused for Google ads.

My only explanation for why they made have told someone, “no adbrite”, is that Google doesn’t really understand what adbrite does, and thus see it as one of the many competing “contextual ad networks” out there, which it’s not. We’re more like Paypal for ads with a built in ad server.

I suspect we’re not big enough to be on Google’s radar yet, so no reason for their customer service people to really know how adbrite works or what it does.

Does anyone know if Google has a problem with you selling links directly to advertisers, using the old Paypal and HTML method?

Pud
Founder, adbrite

PS- I have changed the AdBrite Blog to the following:

Frequently asked question: I'm a publisher. Can I use AdBrite and Google AdSense on the same page?

Answer: We're okay with it. We believe you should have the right to control your own site, so AdBrite has no exclusivity requirements. As for Google's stance, lots of publishers use AdBrite and AdSense on the same page, and so far we haven't seen any problems arise.


asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 8:24 am on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Thank you very much for the change.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 8:44 am on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google says, no? Are you sure? Has AWA said that AdBrite is incompatible? Is there a public statement from Google? Is there a specific line in the AdSense TOS?

I'm a little concerned that the title of this thread says that something is definitive, but there's nothing here that points to a definitive statement.

My understanding was that it was okay to show ads on a page so long as they don't look like Google ads. I recall this was an issue awhile ago with a script that created Amazon ads that resembled AdWords ad units.

I'm confused. Has something changed? Please enlighten me.

Thanks.

Longhaired Genius

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 10:56 am on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've Just been to the Adbrite site and the first linked Adbrite publisher I visited had Adbrite ads directly under their Adsense ads with no demarcation, so as far as a visitor would be concerned they are all "Ads by Goooogle". I'm sure Google would object to this.

asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 4:51 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Martinibuster, I linked to the thread that contains this "definitive answer" in the original post.

I emailed Google and they said "Adbrite and Adsense ads may not appear simultaneously on the same page."

As always, when in doubt, please contact Google yourself to confirm.

[edited by: asp4bunnies at 5:18 pm (utc) on April 3, 2005]

Matt Probert

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 4:57 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Martinibuster, I emailed Google and they said "Adbrite and Adsense ads may not appear simultaneously on the same page."
As always, when in doubt, please contact Google yourself to confirm.

That was always our understanding as well. You could use Adbrite on different pages or at different times, but they could not be displayed simuletaneous with Google ADs.

That said, has anyone ever actually been paid by Adbrite? Net-90 days and we're still waiting (having suspended them pending confirmation of their paying).

Matt

asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 5:17 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yes, I've been paid by AdBrite.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 7:14 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I would suspect Google still has a bad taste in their mouth over the old AdBrite ads [2.adbrite.com] that looked just like Google ads.

No disrespect to Pud, but since he's not writing the AdSense checks and they tend to be substantial, we need to wait for a definitive ruling from Google on the affirmative before mixing and matching on the same page.

Longhaired Genius

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 7:29 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

That's a pretty telling link. I suspect deliberate copying, because the probability of two people independently coming up with something as ugly as the default AdWords skyscraper is vanishingly low.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 8:26 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>>I linked to the thread that contains this "definitive answer" in the original post.

I saw your link, and was not satisfied with it, hence my post saying I have not seen anything definitive. Your link goes to nothing definitive. It's only a description of an email from someone else. That is a long way from definitive.

I'm not suggesting it's all right to mix adbrite and adsense, I'm only pointing out that the word "definitive" is getting thrown around pretty loosely without anything to back it up.

I think before we say something is written in stone, we should at least produce the stone.

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 9:24 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)


That said, has anyone ever actually been paid by Adbrite? Net-90 days and we're still waiting (having suspended them pending confirmation of their paying).

Matt

Last week we switched everyone to net-60. We'll be sending an announcement shortly.

Checks that were sent last Friday (4/1) included payment for 2 months (were bigger) due to the change.

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 9:27 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)


I would suspect Google still has a bad taste in their mouth over the old AdBrite ads that looked just like Google ads.

We created that style a couple of years ago due to demand from publishers who wanted to switch from Google to AdBrite, but already had their sites designed around Google's.

That's when AdBrite was new on the scene and did everything our publishers ask for :) We stopped offering the "Google-esque" style of AdBrite ads about 8 months ago.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 10:58 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

That's when AdBrite was new on the scene and did everything our publishers ask for :)

How about doing what publishers ask for now that you've matured?

About the only thing stopping me from running your networks ads (opposed to AdSense) is the inability to block tacky advertisers. Some of us trying to maintain some basic level of quality just don't want "Get Rich Now $$$" and "Top 10 Web-Hosting" running amok on our web pages.

Some basic method to either pick and choose which network ads or perform basic blocking would certainly sway me toward AdBrite.

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 11:07 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

How about doing what publishers ask for now that you've matured?

About the only thing stopping me from running your networks ads (opposed to AdSense) is the inability to block tacky advertisers. Some of us trying to maintain some basic level of quality just don't want "Get Rich Now $$$" and "Top 10 Web-Hosting" running amok on our web pages.

Some basic method to either pick and choose which network ads or perform basic blocking would certainly sway me toward AdBrite.

Turn off AdBrite's "network ad" feature, and it will only display ads that were bought specifically for your site. No ad will appear before it is approved by you.

Until ads are bought specifically for your site, AdBrite will only display "Your Ad Here" or whatever message you like. There is no wasted real estate.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 11:14 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I understand that pud, I know how adbrite works. I was suggesting you give us some solutions to take advantage of the run of network while we're building up our own ad base.

Guess not.

pudster

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 11:54 pm on Apr 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

I understand that pud, I know how adbrite works. I was suggesting you give us some solutions to take advantage of the run of network while we're building up our own ad base.

That's a good idea. Perhaps we will build a simple interface where publishers can easily turn off any of the run-of-network ads that might appear on their site.

Thanks for the direction.

- pud

tmd5

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 2:34 am on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Pudster - that would be really encouraging if you could do that.

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 3:06 am on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm dying to know the justification for the "no". If you apply any of Google's reasons, it also eliminates most other types of ads.

asp4bunnies

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 4:29 am on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Me too. I suspect it's that they are afraid that the ads will be confused or associated with the Google ads on the page.

There is no other logical explanation.

EliteWeb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member eliteweb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 4:57 am on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

AdBrite gives me a way to manage my ads on my site. If google doesnt want to be on a page because adbrite is running so be it, ill turn off google adsense. Its two different markets of text ads i think.

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 6:04 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

I suspect it's that they are afraid that the ads will be confused or associated with the Google ads on the page.

See, that's the problem. They won't say why. Their motivation is not that they're afraid the ads will look the same. Their motivation is that they don't want to competition. Google could, instead of saying, "No competing ads" say "No ads that look like our ads" or "No ads that someone might confuse for our ads" or "No ads directly below or next to our ads". They're keeping it vague on purpose.

incrediBILL

WebmasterWorld Administrator incredibill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 6:12 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

"No ads that someone might confuse for our ads"

Considering how most of the surfing world isn't the sharpest bunch of tacks on the corkboard what confuses the average joe is 100% different than what confuses a webmaster. Total can of worms.

HughMungus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 6:19 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Considering how most of the surfing world isn't the sharpest bunch of tacks on the corkboard what confuses the average joe is 100% different than what confuses a webmaster. Total can of worms.

No, it's not a can of worms. Google is being too vague. I don't understand how I can put up an affiliate text ad on a page with Adsense but I can't put up text ads from a "competing" service on the same page. What's the justification? Yes, I know, Google can do whatever they want. I wish they would just say that instead of giving these vague answers.

ronin

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4243 posted 7:57 pm on Apr 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

Where is AdSenseAdvisor in the midst of all of this?

This 82 message thread spans 3 pages: < < 82 ( 1 [2] 3 > >
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