| 1:40 am on Jun 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Michael Anthony is completely right, IMHO. It is just like a few people around here saying how they never tell anyone that they are an Aff Marketer. They don't realize that we are but a few people out of the population. This meaning that not everyone wants to do this, those that do probably won't... So it doesn't hurt you to tell some people that you are an Aff Marketer... When it comes down to it, a lot of people are lazy, and wouldn't think about starting a business. TOO MUCH WORK :-]
Enough of the rant. Diversification is the key.
| 2:58 am on Jun 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
The easiest way to make $100 a day is to find a way to make someone else $1000 a day :)
| 6:26 am on Jun 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|I don't have any tech savvy friends, and I don't think you have to be tech savvy. Many successful online marketers are not tech savvy. |
If one is not tech savvy, is he gonna build the whole website completely with dreamweaver or frontpage? or buying a shopping cart from some other company?
Just my 2 cents. No need to agree
| 2:16 pm on Jun 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
<<If one is not tech savvy, is he gonna build the whole website completely with dreamweaver or frontpage?>>
Why would the preident/CEO build his own website?
| 3:06 pm on Jun 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|Why would the preident/CEO build his own website? |
Because most start-ups have a nearly $0 budget?
Like any other small biz start-up, the breadth and scope of the responsibilities of the CEO are directly related to the depth of start-up capital available.
And just like the "CEO" of a new diner may also be the Chief Bottle Washer, it's not unlikely that the "CEO" of a new online biz is the chief coder.
And that is one of the Good Things about affiliate marketing -- it's perfectly feasible for a One Person Company to generate a nicely livable income.
But you can't do it if you're too proud to clean the toilets.
| 3:11 pm on Jun 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
If you really have ZERO start up capital, I would suggest working for a bit to save at least a few grand to get going...
Anyway, I get your point but mine is that it is ludicrous tot hink you have to be super tech saavy to make it in affiliate marketing. I personally know a few people that are regulars here that have made a mint without any design skills and without ever having written a single line of code.
There are even folks here who barely use websites at all but are PPC experts.
| 4:29 pm on Jun 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Michael - that's me! Mr. PPC straight to merchant.
I have made fortunes from the few sites I have reluctantly built using Frontpage 2000. They took minutes to build, they have made good money for years.
I'm always more than happy to share "secrets" - my logic here is that if you're going to help the newbies become competitors then at least you have some control. So I know for a fact that the few people I've helped on here will never be my competitors, because to do so would be to bite the hand that feeds them.
In all honesty, even if they did become my competitors, so what? We all have to deal with competition, regardless of how it's come about, and to think that you can prevent it by keeping your cards close to your chest is just silly.
Any idiot can win a one horse race, but where's the fun in that? And more importantly, how good a measure of your skill is it?
My friend and I race karts, and we asked to be promoted to another series as we kept winning too easily. The logic here, and it's something I apply to everything I do, is that we can't learn anything from people whiose skills are clearly inferior to ours. Now we don't win all the time, but when we do it's because we've upped our game, not because we chose a race full of intermediate drivers, and it means a great deal more to step on to that podium knowing that we've beaten good drivers. As Anthony Robbins put it, CANI (continuous and never ending improvement) should be part of all successful people's make up.
| 7:24 pm on Jun 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I agree with mfishy about not building your own stuff if you have the money to hire people out... Focus your time on more important things! I haven't done it this way yet, but it makes sense.
|The logic here, and it's something I apply to everything I do, is that we can't learn anything from people whiose skills are clearly inferior to ours. |
Everyone has a piece of knowledge that can help you... That is my belief anyways.
All the Best,
| 12:04 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Cody - yes, everyone has something they can teach you, I'll agree. But if I race my kart against an expert in ancient scripture, that clearly superior knowledge probably isn't going to help either of us win the race is it?
| 1:32 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I understand what you are saying Michael, racing karts against someone that is on your level or more will definitely up your level, and force you to improve.
I was saying this because when I was taking a oil rig course, (thank god I didn't go on the rigs), a guy who had done this stuff for many years told me one day that a brand new guy showed him a 1 thing which caused the whole process to go faster. It worked. So the new guy did teach the experienced guy something in that field that he never knew. The guy also told us never to forget that even guys without as much knowledge as you can teach you things about what you are doing. I guess the saying just kind of stuck.
All the Best,
| 2:41 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>> Because most start-ups have a nearly $0 budget?
Forget about it. This is a recipe for bankruptcy.
Budget for a year or at the VERY minimum 6 months worth of outgoings being in your bank account in liquid form before you go into business for yourself.
This includes personal and business expenses.
Then create an exit strategy which involves you looking for a job once that money is close to getting spent.
If you don't have this money, work and save till you get it.
Seen way too many people ruin their lives because of bad financial planning.
| 3:11 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
The only way a business plan will succeed when it has a budget of nearly $0 to back it up is when one of the core pillars of the business plan is to borrow nothing and invest nearly $0 in the project in terms of cash, while investing as much time as possible and valuing your time at nothing per hour.
Most people - for whatever reason - don't want to a) scrub the toilets themselves and b) get paid nothing for it. So many businesses will start either by borrowing a lot of money which needs to be paid back or by working to build the necessary funds prior to project launch.
But it is possible to launch a business with $150 left in one's personal bank overdraft, no borrowing facility and still make a profit from day one. Rare though, I suspect.
| 5:32 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>The only way a business plan will succeed when it has a budget of nearly $0 to back it up is when one of the core pillars of the business plan is to borrow nothing and invest nearly $0 in the project in terms of cash, while investing as much time as possible and valuing your time at nothing per hour.
That's what I did more or less, barely spent a cent. It took about two years to reach $200 a day, that's this month, the norm is somewhat below that. That's also just what I call internet revenue, like adsense revenue, excluding the core business of selling widgets by the container load which makes me really stressed and has kind of gone on the back-burner as the other things have taken off.
I started out as an absolute beginner so knowing what I know now the time period can definitely be cut down. I picked an area with low quality sites built by people with bad English with little understanding of anchor text importance (I didn't know this at beginning). I built a good site, and got a few handfuls of links with killer anchor text and that was it, game over. I then got more ambitious and reached out for more general keyword phrases and have gotten at least top 5 positions for most of them. I'm still a bit surprised at how easy it is to rank, esp. with Yahoo.
So starting out with nothing and spending nothing is certainly possible, gonna take time that people usually don't have or don't think they have.
| 7:48 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
There's a much quicker way - get a shedload of unsecured debt that you can default on if it all goes wrong. That way you're playing with somebody else's money. Of course, you can't be over concerned with the potential destruction of your credit rating in the process, but if you believe deeply enough there's always a way.
I meet lots of people who have built huge and highly successful businesses from just such humble beginnings - and it shows that they've had the courage to take big risks from day one, which is probably why they've succeeded.
ronin, yes, we could start with zero and be super ethical all the way. But this way's much more fun and much more likely to yield big results early.
| 8:50 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
You're the businessman.
| 10:49 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Hey Michael Antony
I remember from some other thread you are an ex merchant banker.
Do you really have access to unsecured debt? That only exists between long time business associates these days or for people with proven track records.
Who is going to lend you unsecured money if they don't know you?
And if they do know you, you'd be an arsehole to default on it right?
| 11:14 pm on Jun 21, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|Do you really have access to unsecured debt? |
Do you have a credit card? Unsecured debt. Amex? No limit to your unsecured debt... In theory of course. Even regular CC's can have $50k to $100k limits on them, depending on your credit and so on. That's alot of PPC in my book, and maybe even a pr8 link or two. ;-)
| 7:28 am on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|There's a much quicker way - get a shedload of unsecured debt |
YES YES YES! Leverage is your friend, but you have to understand your business. I dumped $50k credit cards into a business (in stages), and it grosses $500k annually by its second year. Not internet.
The way to go about launching a new business is in stages. In the beginning, your business model has many unknowns, thus the reliability of your forecasts is very questionable, and your investment is risky. At this point, you should invest just enough to learn more about your key assumptions.
At each milestone, you come to gain more knowledge, fine tune your financial model, and become better able to predict its performance. Throw more cash at it to grow it as knowledge increases and risk decreases.
Good luck if you wait to scrimp and save -- or gamble it all up front.
| 1:02 pm on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Ha ha. Credit cards? So how does personal bankruptcy grab you?
If you borrow unsecured you need to have limited liability. The only case that personal bankruptcy is a reasonable option is if you are happy to leave the country.
| 3:29 pm on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|The only case that personal bankruptcy is a reasonable option is if you are happy to leave the country. |
Really? Well then, the US must be losing about 1,654,847 people (Plus their spouses, children, and so on) a year, right? I don't think so... While bankruptcy is a last ditch option, there are many reasons and situations where it could be the ONLY option. I'm not in any way suggesting that anyone should use CC's to start a business, even if you are 100% confident of it's success, but it is a form of unsecured debt. And many peope have created corporate giants with little other than credit cards, some brains, and a lot of hard work. My 2 cents and all...
| 6:01 pm on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Anyone that needs a limited liability is better off working for someone else. You need to believe in yourself enough to jump without a net.
| 6:04 pm on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I run an LLC but not to avoid creditors - there are other advantages....
| 7:43 pm on Jun 22, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Even if you have llc or corp, it is difficult to shield oneself from creditors, as most require personal guarantee to extend credit to a startup (unless, of course, you know of an investment banker...)
Sorry, thread is running off topic...
| 6:59 am on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>Anyone that needs a limited liability is better off working for someone else. You need to believe in yourself enough to jump without a net.
This is advice only for people with no other options, or people who have a desperate need to be successful outweighing all the downside. I read somewhere the super rich often start their business this way, but most people don't need to be super rich. Quite rich would make most people very happy :)
I am certainly not going to work for anyone else unless my business tanks and I've always used limited liability, and sometimes it has been very useful.
| 3:15 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Recipe to Make $200 per day:
1) Cultivate quality traffic until you consistently get 2000 visitors per day
2) Add Adsense
Of course, achieving Step 1 is not that easy, but is certainly possible with some hard work and a some thoughtful planning (hint: the type of traffic is important).
| 3:36 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|Recipe to Make $200 per day: |
1) Cultivate quality traffic until you consistently get 2000 visitors per day
2) Add Adsense
I have a site that gets about 4500 hits per day with adsense on all pages. I average around 8-10% clickthroughs and I only make around $80 per day.
| 3:57 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
The only place 2000 visitors = $100 AdSense dollars is Compuer Hardware, Travel, and Mesthothelioma :-P
Put AdSense on a Video Games related site and watch $0.03-0.10EPC bounce around.
| 4:35 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
There are MANY more topics than those that you listed where 2k visitors would be much more than $100.
| 5:22 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
For someone trying to figure out if a niche is going to be successful... can Overture's bid tool be a good indicator of what you could expect for CPM/EPC?
Anyone care to venture a rule of thumb?
| 5:30 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|The only place 2000 visitors = $100 AdSense dollars is Compuer Hardware, Travel, and Mesthothelioma :-P |
We have sites with 10% CTR getting $3.50-$5.00 per click in the finance area...
| 6:10 pm on Jun 23, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Finance industry is higher CPC then travel and hardware.
I really don't understand why companies can afford to pay $25 or more a click for some terms. Do they really convert that high of a % of people that go to there site, especially when there are so many just like them in the results, both natural and paid? And those conversions really pay them that high to come out way ahead of the cost per visitor? For something like mesothelioma I would think most people would just be looking for information. Considering that most sites that are very successful receive at least 100k visitors a month, these sites that are paying outrageous amounts per visitor (not even unique) it would cost them like 2.5 Million per month to get the same amount of fresh traffic. Google sure is making a killing.
I don't think Overture is the best place to find out what Adsense would pay per click. They are 2 different markets. The best place is straight through Google Adword's Estimation tool. Just an estimate but it will be closer to reality then someone else's market. It's not only the CPC but the estimation of how much traffic and clicks the term would get.
A certain term might get a lot per click, but may not be searched for very often. And then it would be harder to get as much traffic for a site on that topic then one on a greater searched topic. Esp. if you are doing SEO for the traffic.
I wonder though how many of those co. turn there content advertising off or pay less for it.
Getting 2000 unique new visitors per day (without paying a bunch for them) is no easy task. Unless you're an SEO genious.
Also, if you are burning to succeed there are other ways to get start-up funds then unsecured credit if you can't get it. You can sell your car,sell your furniture, move in with 5 roomates, cut down as much as possible on all personal expenses, and put the rest into investing in the business. Of course the unsecured credit is a lot more fun, but there are other ways if it's not possible and you are determined. I might have to do at least one of the above.