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redcross.ask.com
incentivised search
jranes




msg:33088
 2:33 pm on Sep 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Ask Jeeves has launched redcross.ask.com, a special version of the company's flagship search site Ask Jeeves (Ask.com), to offer people an easy way to help the Red Cross.

Ask Jeeves will donate 100 percent of the profits generated from searches conducted on this site with a minimum donation of $50,000 and a maximum donation of $1 million.

If you searched for Mesothelioma and then clicked on some of the "Sponsored Links" Ask Jeeves would donate approx. $50 per site clicked.

 

Warren




msg:33089
 3:15 am on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

Great bit of PR for Jeeves.

I say "well done" on their support of this charity and wish them all the best.

blubb




msg:33090
 3:21 am on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

Ask Jeeves is actually donating somebody elses money (advertisers) and you applaude?

This is about the most unethical thing I have heard of in a long time! Did avertisers agree to this?

You want to support the red cross? Just go to [redcross.org...] and do so - WITH YOUR OWN MONEY - dont pretend to do something good with somebody elses money.

blubb




msg:33091
 3:35 am on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

As an advertiser on Ask Jeeves who was not asked I have to say that I really do not like the idea.

People are supposed to click on my ad because they are interested in my service - not because they want to support the red cross (with MY money - those little suckers)!

Whats next? click on ads to support scientology? click on ads to support Bush/Kerry? click on ads to support whatever?

I am going to pull my ads off...

blubb




msg:33092
 3:45 am on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

BTW: Last I remember ASK Jeeves "Sponsored Listings" are provided by Adwords. Does Google know about this?

Is this a "approved" way of incentivising clicks?

To me its fraud - making me (the advertiser) pay for something I did not agree to - no matter how good the cause may be.

GameMasterM




msg:33093
 2:49 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

Blubb,
Have you thought that maybe the "clickers" might purchase something from your store?

This program is a corporate goodwill effort. In the process more custumers will be comfortable using Jeeves services and ultimately reward the advertisers on the site.

christopher




msg:33094
 7:40 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

I see what your saying - but Ask Jeeves sold you a service, so the money isn't the advertisers once they get the advert, listing etc.

It's Ask's money in exchange for providing the adverts - it's their space you're buying, therfore it's their profit - not the advertiser!

You are buying a service like any other - a simple transaction between buyer and seller. I don't see what the problem is... Google do the same with Adwords etc.

Livenomadic




msg:33095
 7:57 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

For god sakes PLEASE don't fake click, and if you do PLEASE don't fake click on a Mesothelioma ad.

Why? Because those sites are trying to help people! Click an ad for a hospital's Mesothelioma ad is like taking money from one good cause and giving it to aother...

PatrickDeese




msg:33096
 8:03 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

> Have you thought that maybe the "clickers" might purchase something from your store?

If you follow the advice of the poster, you would be clicking on an advertiser that does not sell a product - they offer a legal service that is available only to people with a specific medical condition - so no, I don't think it's cool, or good hearted or whatever.

I would be very interested in knowing if Google will allow me to opt out of this subdomain.

I have no problems with donating to charities and in fact have done a number of pro-bono projects for charitable organizations.

However, as someone else mentioned, this isn't so much donating to the red cross as it is wasting advertiser money - unfairly I might add.

Ask gets a tax break - and adwords advertisers pay for it.

gnomedeplum




msg:33097
 8:19 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

so no, I don't think it's cool, or good hearted or whatever.

I have to disagree - its for a very good cause - the Red Cross saves lives all over the world.

In fact, I have made it my task to search for "golf forum" several times a day and I plan on clicking so much that I will use up those advertiser's daily campaign budgets - after all - it's for a good cause.

christopher




msg:33098
 8:54 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

gnomedeplum - if you do - that's theft! You are using up other's money, and it doesn't belong to you.

If they trace your clicks, you can be prosecuted. I don't know whether you were serious or not, but it is theft, which is:

"The misappropriation of someone's else's property with the intention of permanently depriving of"

mfishy




msg:33099
 9:27 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

"The misappropriation of someone's else's property with the intention of permanently depriving of"

Sounds like the red cross....

martinibuster




msg:33100
 11:10 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

gnomedeplum - if you do - that's theft!

Christopher, I don't see how you can support jrane's idea to click on mesothelioma ads, while denouncing gnomedeplume's idea to click away on Golf Forum ads. Aren't both actions the same thing?

Hey, jranes, if we take your words and switch Golf Forum for Mesothelioma, how bright does it sound?

Personally, I think both ideas are uncool.

madmatt69




msg:33101
 11:56 pm on Sep 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

How about www.helpthekids.ca - It goes directly to UNICEF or the Red Cross, your choice, 100% :)

christopher




msg:33102
 12:35 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm not supporting his actions - I'm against whatever he's doing. He's obviously trying to increase clickthrough by using this cancer sites name.

very underhand indeed! But people will find out what he's upto when they reach HIS site Golf forum.....

jranes




msg:33103
 12:52 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you searched for Mesothelioma and then clicked on some of the "Sponsored Links" Ask Jeeves would donate approx. $50 per site clicked.

PLEASE NOTICE THE WORD "IF"

If denotes a hypothetical situation, certainly not an endorsement.

I would not nor would any of my colleagues ever click an ad fraudulently and I mean that in the most serious sense. As a matter of fact we make it a practice to never click any adsense ads as we are both publishers and advertisers.

This thread was meant to elicit awareness of a current event that has value as a discussion topic as both an advertiser and a publisher.

Just to make it clear I do not nor does any of my colleagues support, condone, or approve of clicking on an advertisement for any ANY reason other than being captivated by the value proposition contained in the text ad.

Also I support the Red Cross by donating blood and money every year. Letís keep the focus where it belongs, on the issues related to the ethics of this incentive practice in a marketplace we all have our dearly earned dollars in.

[edited by: jranes at 12:58 am (utc) on Sep. 19, 2004]

rj87uk




msg:33104
 12:55 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

If they trace your clicks, you can be prosecuted. I don't know whether you were serious or not, but it is theft

I dont know much about that stuff etc i think that going about clicking ads for 'that' reason is wrong good cause or not.

But, "you can be prosecuted" not to sure about that everyone has there own right to go click what ever they feel like many times or not? :

If you feel like clicking on a ad because it looks good thats up to you, clicking on many good looking ads is up to you...

Its wrong to do what he said yes, but prosecuted not so sure/dont think so, but it is a good topic i would like to hear what others think...

I do think that it is a good idea tho?
(coming from a user not a publisher!)

Rj

christopher




msg:33105
 1:56 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Clicking the ads would delete account credits. Intent would need to be proven, I didn't make the original accusation up, but usually people don't make up things like fraudualent clicking for no reason.

Something triggered this right?

I don't know how true this is, and I suppose if adwords were involved, then Google or Askjeeves would have some record of these clicks,and would check to see if there is a pattern of clicks coming from a certain URL.

But whoever, has got this information from somewhere that this guy is doing this.

I dunno.......

PhraSEOlogy




msg:33106
 2:18 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

The weird thing is that the red cross have sponsored listings - so can we click on them to generate revenue for the releif fund?

The red cross pays 10 cents a click and AJ donates 3 cents - crazy - plain crazy.

christopher




msg:33107
 3:03 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

I see now. That's sound okay, as long as Ask gives the percentage.

Yeah sounds okay.

jim2003




msg:33108
 3:12 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hello,

A quick evaluation shows this may even be worse abuse of advertisers than at first blush. When a user searches on redcross.ask.com the results page comes up in the standard web.ask.com domain. Subsequent searches would not be in the redcross.ask.com, unless the user back spaces to the previous page. Wow. People who go on indiscriminately click thinking they are taking money from advertisers to donate to the red cross may actually be only helping Ask.com WOW.

Also what happens to the revenues above $1 MM, generated from clickers who are clicking for no reason other than to help the Red Cross. It also appears that Ask.com gets to keep this money as well.

This whole concept appears to be a violation of the no incentivized click rules Google advertises.

Regards

zomega42




msg:33109
 3:39 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Read the info on redcross.ask.com folks, I don't think they are donating based on clicks. They are donating based on searches that show ads, ie based on traffic rather than click throughs.

So I don't think it's quite as bad as you've been making it out.

There is of course still the possibility that searchers will THINK that donations are made for each click, then click more and unfairly drain advertising bucks. So I'd still say it's a crazy idea.

martinibuster




msg:33110
 4:18 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

This whole concept appears to be a violation of the no incentivized click rules Google advertises.

Good point. Incentivicing the clicks, at no expense to the clicker, smells bad.

It's one thing to go out and encourage people to "shop for change" and having them buy something from your favorite affiliate and donating the proceeds. That's been going on longer than girl scouts have been selling cookies.

Incentivizing clicks is taking this into a whole different area. Did Ask Jeeves clear this with Google?

And if they did, did Google realize the potentially negative aspects?

good_seed




msg:33111
 10:36 am on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

I decided to give away the earnings of one my sites a couple months ago. It doesnt earn much each month, but when I said on my "about us" page that 100% of earnings is given to various charities my click through rate went through the roof.
I took the message off as I was afraid it would get my other sites in trouble and the click through rate is now back to normal.
It's definately an incentive for site visitors.

christopher




msg:33112
 12:44 pm on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Blimey - it must work then. Instead of actual clickthroughs, I'd have something like "If we get 500'000 visitors to the site within a month etc then #*$!x amount will be donated to charity" - or something like that.

killroy




msg:33113
 1:27 pm on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

It does sound like a nasty atempt by ask to get free publicity at no real cost to themselves. If they were serious about the charity, they would simply say they give, perhaps 20% of their ad income to th charity without any extra subdomain.

SN

blubb




msg:33114
 8:27 pm on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

I see what your saying - but Ask Jeeves sold you a service, so the money isn't the advertisers once they get the advert, listing etc.
It's Ask's money in exchange for providing the adverts - it's their space you're buying, therfore it's their profit - not the advertiser!

Sorry pal, you got that totally wrong!

I am billed for EVERY CLICK on my ad! I did not buy the display of my ad.

Its called "performance advertising" or "PPC - Pay Per Click".

Therefore, it is NOT in the rigths of AskJeeves to encourage people to click on my ads for ANY other purpose than the intended one - that being MY service that triggers the interest.

If AskJeevse would be a regular AdSense publisher, they would get booted for this - and for good reason!

caine




msg:33115
 11:57 pm on Sep 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

makes sense what your saying and MB in msg.23 pretty much covered the problem of the NO INCENTIVE to click thing other than the advertisement itself, and not a free for all at the expense of the advertiser to give money to the red cross.

Have to watch and see how this develops, i can see this getting a bit tricky for AJ.

christopher




msg:33116
 1:38 am on Sep 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi Blubb,

No I'm not wrong actually, and you didn't understand what I was saying.

You paid them for an advert. It doesn't matter how you were billed - you still had to pay for it. Ok, they are slowly deducting the cash from accounts, but they have the cash don't they, then again you always have the option of cancelling the agreement at any time so...... They would still have to legally give your cash back, so what do you want exactly?

Don't forget that people are STILL clicking on your ads - therefore they must be going through to your site, so what's the problem? You can always cancel and use say Overture?

Don't worry so much. You can't do anything about it - none of us can. I'm sure Ask have checked with their legal team over this - infact that's probably a safe bet that they have. Then again the advertisers should be getting loads of exposure because of this right?

You are correct when you say you are billed for every click, what I mean is that you are still paying for the advert space.

I didn't mention any 'displays' of your ad did I.....

Displays or impressions of ads are free anyway, as your account wouldn't be deducted for those - only the actual clicks themselves.

Ask Jeeves should have asked first before doing this though. I mean they are using people's ads as leverage to promote themselves aren't they (if I've understood things correctly)

hmmmmmmmmm

deejay




msg:33117
 1:59 am on Sep 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

All I can say is heaven help the advertisers when this news hits the chat communities.

I know of one medium/large community that has a very active charity-clicking clique. These are people who, with all good intent, religiously run through the links on their little toolbar or in their top favorites folder and click each one every time they log on, and every time they log off.

It's almost a competitive sport. "I'm gooder than you are because I fed more starving people today/donated (by proxy) more to cancer research/saved more puppies from animal research/bought more orthopaedic footwarmers for penguins".

And they do this with absolute alacrity, further comforted by the thought that this is all about getting some money back from business that are all nasty corporate behemoths.

Certainly hope there's an 'opt-out' button for the advertiser.

This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >
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