| 5:36 am on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I think there is a typo and they dropped a decimal place.
Either that or they were wreferring to searches by AskJeeves employees.
| 9:05 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Doubt it was a typo. Jeeves has a great syndication business. Infospace, My Search ,Mamma.com, Tickle are just a few sites that come to mind that are using Teoma search technology.
| 9:06 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Sorry, but I don't see numbers anywhere near that in logs for over 2000 sites. I'd say 2k sites is a pretty decent sample.
| 9:29 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Actually I would agree that AJ gives you good traffic... if you are an Adwords advertiser.
the article is actually incorrectly attributing the searches as being powered by Teoma - because, in reality they are being powered by the Google algorithm via the Adwords partner sites program.
I don't have DG's 2000 sites statistics - but I can tell you I have had a site ranked #1 for "keyword" in AJ for approximately 36 months.
In November, I started advertising another site in Adwords for the same keyword.
36 month statistics for referrals from AJ / Teoma: 110
6 month statistics for adwords referrals via AJ/Adwords: 304
draw your own conclusions.
[edited by: PatrickDeese at 9:40 pm (utc) on May 14, 2004]
| 9:34 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I'm with DG on this one. Regardless of Nielsen/NetRatings' extrapolations, the log files do not lie.
Let's stick to the facts
For b2b, b2c, and informational websites:
- I receive far more traffic from my link partners than I get from Ask Jeeves.
- I receive more traffic from About.com than I do from Ask Jeeves
- I receive more traffic from Verizon, Cox, or SBC than I receive from Ask Jeeves.
- I receive more traffic from software download directories than I receive from Ask Jeeves
- I receive more traffic from dmoz clones than I get from Ask Jeeves
- I receive more traffic from a radio personality website than I receive from Ask Jeeves
The big news from the last couple days about Ask Jeeves is that they can finally search for PDF Documents. I respect their search engine methodology and technology, good stuff.
But as Janet Jackson says, "What have you done for me lately?"
I like AJ, but if I may be frank and honest (and spoken in the spirit of constructive criticism), Ask Jeeves should take a good hard look at what the webmasters are saying and stop getting high on their own marketing supply.
| 10:07 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
No offense intended, but WOW for a webmaster site you guys sure don't know much about search syndication. Teoma powers many metasearch engines besides powering the Ask Jeeves and Teoma sites. When you guys get traffic from Metacrawler, Mamma, Dogpile, Excite, MyWay etc etc they are all in some fashion using Teoma technology. There are other top web sites also using Teoma search technology.
| 10:11 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>you guys sure don't know much about search syndication
Guess we don't. But we do know that "Metacrawler, Mamma, Dogpile, Excite, MyWay" aren't sending much traffic to anyone. ;)
Those engines you mentioned could vanish tomorrow and no one but their employees would blink.
| 10:16 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
is that a red rag i see there?
i can also say that from my logs ...
outside of google,msn,yahoo,and partners
and an occasional good link partner
the rest of my traffic is small, so it is irrelevant how much else teoma powers,
(i have only a small sample of 20 sites though)
| 10:17 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
You write "I receive more traffic from software download directories than I receive from Ask Jeeves"
And when people download search bars from software downloads what technology do you think powers the search? Come on guys! This is an experts site. Start acting like the experts I know you are! I rely on these forums for expert opinions!
| 10:44 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
The people answering your questions have been watching their traffic logs for a long time. Personally, I run about 50 sites, and Teoma, as well as their partners represent less than 1% of my traffic from searches.
I don't think 25% is even close, but if you have further evidence, please tell.
| 10:51 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|...you guys sure don't know much about search syndication. |
Let me clarify:
When I say AJ, I mean their entire network. With the current purchase of IHS, Ask Jeeves reach is reported to be 7%. A far smaller number than the 25% being hyped by Nielsen's extrapolation.
In light of what webmasters know from observing their logs, 25% is a number that is exaggerated to the point of being ludicrous. If that figure were not an opinion, it would certainly qualify as a lie.
Neilsen takes their numbers from a panel of users then extrapolates their survey data. It's a guess. Log files do not lie. AJ (and their network) in no way send me or anyone I know 25% search traffic.
Download.com and Tucows are two of the single largest download directories on the internet and neither is powered by Teoma.
I am not aware of one significant download directory that is powered by Ask Jeeves.
[edited by: martinibuster at 11:08 pm (utc) on May 14, 2004]
| 11:08 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I'll come at it from the other side - I get about 70% of my traffic from Google and 25% from Yahoo. Now I'm no math whiz but there doesn't seem to be 25% left for anyone let alone AJ network sites.
| 11:19 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Two more sample sites:
starting: Thu May 3 03:22:01 2001
Widget Review site (no PPC - natural SERPS only)
G Rank #1 & 2
Y! rank #1
AJ Rank #1
|google.com 139165 (57%) |
yahoo 40315 (16%)
msn 30354 (12%)
aol.com 17264 (7%)
altavista 7047 (2%)
netscape.com 3791 (1%)
lycos 1028 (0%)
goto.com 949 (0%)
askjeeves.com 919 (0%)
go2net.com 508 (0%)
mamma.com 491 (0%)
iwon.com 419 (0%)
excite.com 257 (0%)
looksmart.com 249 (0%)
alltheweb.com 136 (0%)
hotbot.com 94 (0%)
infospace.com 68 (0%)
teoma.com 48 (0%)
webcrawler.com 17 (0%)
go.com 2 (0%)
euroseek.net 2 (0%)
Widget Review site (Adwords advertiser since Nov. 2003 - 25,227 clicks):
G Rank #6
Y! Rank #3
AJ Rank #11
starting: Tue Nov 13 18:29:35 2001
|google.com 327533 (64%) |
yahoo 94322 (18%)
msn 46803 (9%)
altavista 18208 (3%)
aol.com 10932 (2%)
askjeeves.com 3144 (0%)
netscape.com 1439 (0%)
lycos 677 (0%)
alltheweb.com 381 (0%)
goto.com 359 (0%)
iwon.com 332 (0%)
mamma.com 244 (0%)
hotbot.com 179 (0%)
excite.com 130 (0%)
looksmart.com 101 (0%)
go2net.com 71 (0%)
infospace.com 68 (0%)
teoma.com 47 (0%)
euroseek.net 18 (0%)
webcrawler.com 15 (0%)
go.com 13 (0%)
I am not going to break out calc.exe to figure out what fraction of a percent of all visitors belong to the "AJ group". I can eyeball it and see that AJ lucked out with the nielsen ratings and got a unnaturally disproportionate "pocket" of users in the survey.
Muscle13 - dunno what your agenda is, but your posting history tells its own tale.
| 11:23 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Ok you want more info. Add all the meta search engines using Teoma technology (ie.- Infospace metaseach properties, Mamma, HotBot etc etc.) plus all the websites using Teoma (ie Tickle etc) to these numbers released in Jeeves last press release
According to Nielsen NetRatings (March 2004), with the acquisition of Interactive Search Holdings, Ask Jeeves:
-- Becomes the 7th largest domestic Web property in terms of unique users;
-- Extends its reach to 27% of the domestic Internet, representing
approximately 39 million unique users; and
-- Increases its reach of domestic searchers to 25%, or approximately 29
million unique searchers.
| 11:34 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
There's no way we can know -- not without the SE providers publishing independantly-audited figures.
All the counts from logs are of searches that "converted" (ie the searcher clicked a SERP entry -- there is probably an actual technical term for that).
They don't tell us how many searches don't convert --- or what SEs power the most non-converted searches.
So Ask / Jeeves *may* run 25% of all searches. If so, very few people click a SERPS entry with AJ compared to Google -- or, at least, very few click a SERPS entry that ends up at a site run by a WMW member.
That may not be very likely, but it is possible, and quoting from logs won't verify it one way of another.
| 11:35 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
"Muscle13 - dunno what your agenda is, but your posting history tells its own tale."
My agenda is the facts. I love the info on these forums. Look at the number of queries Jeeves reported last quarter prior to the ISH acquisition
Proprietary Queries (mil) 822
Syndication Queries (mil) 1,442
| 11:39 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|According to Nielsen NetRatings (March 2004) |
We don't care what Nielsen NetRatings Survey says. What matters and counts are the actual numbers in our stats.
[edited by: martinibuster at 12:48 am (utc) on May 15, 2004]
| 11:40 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics. ;)
Investors might read and care about that BS, webmasters look at logs and conversion rates. Can't rememeber the last time anyone said, "Man, my Teoma traffic dropped and now I can't pay my bills".
Are you trying to sell us on Ask-Teoma?
| 11:49 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I love researching the search industry. I think its the fastest growing business in this country. The internet was looking for a killer app for the last decade. It found its killer app in search. Jeeves is my favorite little underdog in the search business. I think you guys are the experts of the internet. I love these forums. I just get surprised sometimes at the various opinions. I read these forums to get expert info. You guys know the internet better than anyone in my opinion.
| 11:50 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I guess what I meant to say is that a large portion of your posts (a disproportionate number) seem to be posts citing AJ press releases.
So I guess my question is - are you an share holder that want's to pump up aj stock value, or do you work in their PR department or what?
I am all about "show me the money" - Google, Y! & MSN show me the money on a daily basis.
AJ is 25% of searches? Sorry, no.
How about 10% ... not in my small family of 68 domains.
> (ie Tickle etc)
tickle? sorry, no referrals.
Maybe AJ needs to start spoofing logs like the adult webmasters do - then we can say "AJ sends me 25% of my traffic, but it doesn't convert".
According to the logs of one of my sites, a "viagra-male-widget-enlargement-casino.us" type site is 16% of my referrals today.
Maybe they should send out a press release.
| 11:53 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
In the era of Google IPO, Teoma needs to be able to say it has a spot in the search market. By hook or by crook...
With all the spin you guys write into your marketing copy, it surprises me that you debate this stuff.
| 11:58 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Reach not equal to number of searches.
I'm part of Teoma's reach but I do about 2,000 Google searches and 500 Yahoo ones for each Teoma search.
| 11:59 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>spin you guys write into your marketing copy,
Man, we're busted. :)
Seriously though, the most effective copy is honest copy. Teoma powers 25% of searches? C'mon, hype should at least be plausible. Not to take anything away from your beliefs Muscle, but maybe you should look at those figures you're quoting with a discerning eye.
| 12:09 am on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I am not associated with Jeeves at all. I am an auditor by profession and a bodybuilder by hobby. I just love to find growing industries and pick out the underdog that I believe can beat the gorillas one day. Google was once a nobody 4 or 5 years ago. What will the search landscape look like 4 or 5 years from now? Who is the next Google? I come to these boards to find the answers. I really consider you guys the experts. I am here for info. Nothing else. I don't give a damn if you guys buy the stock. My purpose here is finding info.
| 12:48 am on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|I am here for info. Nothing else. |
Look, perhaps you don't understand what log files are. I'll explain. A server (that's the computer that holds the website) keeps track of who visits a website, and where they came from and what keywords they used to get there. We are acutely aware of search engine traffic.
Armed with this knowledge, we know for a fact that AJ and it's partners do not provide 25% of internet traffic.
Neilesen's stats are opinions based on surveys. They are not facts.
We are giving you the facts, not opinion. According to our records, AJ and Company do not provide 25% of search traffic. Not by a longshot.
| 1:49 am on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Maybe they meant Teoma gets 25% of the searches on Ask Jeeves, with the other 75% going to the Google Adwords...
| 1:49 am on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)|
OK martinibuster, but how do you explain these facts that are the exact number of queries reported in Jeeves quarterly financial statements which are filed with the US Securities and Exchange Commission.
Proprietary Queries (mil) 822
Syndication Queries (mil) 1,442
| 2:00 am on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)|
As much as I'd like to believe that an underdog is winning, I have to support Martinibuster. I checked through about 15 sites and here is a log file that best supports your premise. Even in this case, the top 4 represent over 95% of my traffic. Here at least Ask Jeeves made 5th place.
- Ask Jeeves
- Earth Link
- Google (Images)
You should at least be able to recognize that statistics can be distorted. If askjeeves (et al) is actually doing 25% of searches, I suggest you tell us where those searches are being made...certainly not on the sites of members here WebmasterWorld.
| 3:06 am on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>>but how do you explain these facts
AJ does 2.2 Billion searches in a Quarter (roughly 90 days).
Google does 2 Billion searches in ten days [google.com] (over 200 million queries per day). In 90 days that equals at least 18 billion queries in a quarter, or roughly 900% more.
You do not tend to a website and do not know the on-the-ground reality of search engine traffic. The overwhelming consensus, based on facts not opinion, is that Ask Jeeves' total network traffic is inconsequential.
Webmasters do not care how many awards a company receives for turnaround company of the year, we don't care how they spin their numbers. Investors may, but webmasters do not because we are looking for visitors, not hype. We care about where the rubber hits the road, not at how nice the car looks in the driveway.
This is my last word on the matter because anyone with an open mind can read through this thread, and seeing all the experienced webmasters opinions, will get the point.
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