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Server Side Scripting Forum Future
This forum is to general (call for more Forums)
Lisa_Lia




msg:504608
 11:29 pm on Mar 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Server Side scripting is a very important subject, But when reading this forum I have to skip over all the ASP junk. (no offense to you NT people, I am just a Unix nut). More offend then not I just hit the back button because I feel it is too Windows for my taste.

I think WebmasterWorld should separate this forum into more Forums. At least two from what I see (Server Side Scripting Windows Only, Server Side Scripting Perl, PHP, and UNIX).

If there is more demand after that then perhaps separate based on Language, because languages like PHP and Perl can be used on Windows as well. Although some functions differ depending on the OS.

That is my two 2 cents. I hope there is enough demand to spilt the forum.

 

brotherhood of LAN




msg:504609
 11:37 pm on Mar 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Although Im not proficient in Server side scripting I would be inclined to agree.

Most of my site uses ASP so it would be handy for me to skip all the PHP stuff which might be confusing to a newbie :)

Lisa_Lia




msg:504610
 11:45 pm on Mar 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

The other Category that I notice which is to general is Website Technology Issues, when we are talking technology it is nice to know what technology. If it is COM and all that ASP stuff found in Windows then count me out again. But if I see MySQL, .htaccess, (Unix stuff) then I would enter. So keep that section in mind too! I think WebmasterWorld will see great participation if forums can focus. Lumping technologies into one Forum keeps me away.

volatilegx




msg:504611
 12:08 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'd like to see this forum split into the following

Perl/CGI
PHP
ASP

mole




msg:504612
 12:20 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I agree with VolatileGX, but can we add databases to the list as well?

Perl/CGI
PHP
ASP
Databases

Lisa_Lia




msg:504613
 12:35 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Well Databases starts to get merky again... I would say a database is not talked about as a stand alone very much. But the two most talked about would be:
"MS Access / MS SQL" & MySQL

I don't want to have to wade through all the Access/MS-SQL questions when I am looking for MySQL questions. I have to say I know a lot of MySQL questions, and a MySQL forum could be very big.

I like the following categories:
Perl/CGI
PHP
ASP

Most commonly you are going to talk about a database according to the language you are interfacing with it in. So I would tend not to have the database forum. But if Brett agreed to more forums and would not mind an extra two for only database question. Then I would have two general db forums based on OS (Unix or Win)... Then wait for the demand to build in those two forums and then sort them again by Database application.

Databases (Windows)
Access, MS SQL

Databases (Unix)
MySQL, Postgres, Oracle, etc.

jatar_k




msg:504614
 12:43 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Lisa_Lia,

that is the best idea I have heard all day. I agree, I always read the perl,php,mysql post but not often do I read the asp posts. Not that I'm not interested, I just don't often have much to offer. I usually scan the post titles and look for mention of php or mysql and if I don't see it I don't read them.

If the php was split off I would read all of them and, hopefully, be able to help out where needed or learn more quickly.

mivox




msg:504615
 12:47 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Generally speaking, new forums get started when there are enough specific questions to warrant a topical split, or there is an area that isn't being covered in the existing forums at all...

As much as I would also like to see MS/*nix questions divided into their own forums, last I heard there aren't enough dedicated MS platform questions to leave them standing all by their lonesome...

jatar_k




msg:504616
 12:52 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

fair enough, I can see that but it will still linger on my wish list.

mivox




msg:504617
 12:55 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Oh, same here... :) and as wmw grows in general, there is more potential for subtopic breaks among existing forums.

Lisa_Lia




msg:504618
 1:05 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

mivox,
I think there is plenty of demand. Let us take a look at the current questions... Almost a dead even split.

PHP - "javascript and php"
ASP - "ASP / Access errors"
PHP - "Message Board & eCard Scripts"
??? - "Software Licensing"
CGI - "Close to perfect..."
ASP - "Help. ASP Newbie completely perplexed."
CGI - "Multiple Column sort in a flatfile text (csv) database"
PHP - "Need some help here... desperately"
ASP - "Update Stmt takes three tries (sometimes)"
PHP - "[PHP] unset dont work"
ASP - "Response.redirect doesn't work"
ASP - "SQL: How to optimize that query?"
ASP - "Cfhttp and asp"
CGI - "Host that limit SSI"

4 PHP questions
6 ASP questions
4 Perl/CGI questions

I would be more willing to answer the generic questions but they need to be more clearly labeled. That is why new forums are needed. "Software Licensing" question above is hard to figure out. But I am guessing it is ASP questions.

Let's put it to a vote!

Do you approve the split?
Lisa: YES

mivox




msg:504619
 1:10 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm going to suggest an admin move this thread over to our WebmasterWorld community forum... The system administrator (the always wise and benevolent Brett Tabke) tries to be very attentive to posts in that forum, so you'll either hear a postive response (I know he has a lot of changes planned in the upcoming board software update...) or an "official" explanation of the current situation.

:) That should help clear things up a bit...

Lisa_Lia




msg:504620
 1:34 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Excellent, but I started this post in Server Side scripting because I want the input of the people that pop in that forum.

But, I love to get a verdict on this. Even though I think more input would help. EX: Like that database input from Mole.

jeremy goodrich




msg:504621
 1:36 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

would have to say I agree. (it'd be nice if they were split up...)

While I've been trying and trying to learn perl/mysql, I feel like I'm finally getting somewhere :)

when I glance through the forum (server side scripting) I just keep thinking, "if we could seperate this out somehow..."

I think it would encourage a lot more discussion. (I know it would for myself).

Which is a good reason to do it...and I for one am positive that demand would grow in time.

mivox




msg:504622
 1:43 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Lisa, I didn't request the move to shut down discussion or discourage further input.... it was just a case of "a place for everything and everything in it's place." Suggestions about the actual content/structure/management of the boards are most appropriately addressed here.

I think you'll find that (with help from the regulars scanning our Active List [webmasterworld.com]) the discussion will receive additional input here as well.

(edited by: mivox at 1:43 am (utc) on Mar. 26, 2002)

Marcia




msg:504623
 1:43 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Moved - thanks, mivox.

I can see the point you guys are making; there are a number of people here who use and like Microsoft technologies, though it's not the majority.

>(Server Side Scripting Windows Only, Server Side Scripting Perl, PHP, and UNIX).
There hasn't been a consistently tremendous demand over time, and with so many home machines still using primarily Windows, it almost makes me think it could include "all things microsoft" if it were ever done.

Has anyone looked to see how many people are actually jumping in and answering questions in the MS related threads? If it were to happen there could be an increase in the number of questions asked, and it would take enough knowledgeable members around to come up with answers.

Brett_Tabke




msg:504624
 3:44 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Interesting topic.

How do we do all this and not end up with a forums index page [webmasterworld.com] that isn't a meg? If we keep adding forums (4 more in the todo hopper), there's a point where we'll have to do something different.

Any suggestions?

mivox




msg:504625
 4:04 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

What about subcategories, Brett? List "Server Side Scripting" on the forum index, and have it lead to a page with the available subcategories: ASP, PHP, PERL, etc...

List "Page Design & Graphics" on the Index page, and have it lead to Graphics, HTML & Page Design, Javascript/CSS, whatever else... Etc., etc...

It would add a tier to forum navigation, but once the user is really hooked they'll just bookmark the active list anyhow, so they'll never notice. People have been well-trained to deal with drill-down navigation by now, IMO... Especially tech-savvy users like wmw gets.

Lisa_Lia




msg:504626
 6:57 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I would place a header at the top of the Current forum, Which lists the child forums. I would restructure the forums like this.

The Webmaster World
- Browsers, HTML, and Web Page Design
- Server Side Scripting
> - ASP
> - PHP
> - Perl/CGI
> - Databases
> > - MS Access / MS SQL
> > - MySQL
> > - All others ( Oracle, Postgres, Etc.)
- Website Technology Issues
> - Windows
> - Unix
- Website Graphics Design and Usage
- Domain Names
- Professional Webmaster Business Issues
- Tracking and Logging
- Webmaster General
- Ecommerce and Ecommerce Promotion
- Reciprocal Linkage Topics
- Advertising Sales and Affiliate Programs
- Linux, Unix, and *nix like Operating Systems
- Content
- PDAs

Woz




msg:504627
 7:18 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I am not so sure we need to be splitting off the fora just yet.

I agree a Database forum is probably needed at some time, but I am not sure about splitting into three fora based on specific database. If a question arises about Normalisation for example, without specifying a particular database, then into which forum should it go? Normalisation applies to any database, be it Access, MySQL, FileMaker Pro (serious ommission from the list :) ), or whatever.

Another challenge is that a Script quite often goes together with a Database. Not always, but quite often. So what happens when someone wants help with a script linking to a database. Into which forum should it go?

Also, I sometimes get tips reading threads about scripts I don't use, and then think about how I would apply that idea or algo in the script I do use. Cross Pollination is Good!

It can be a danger to compartmentalise things or people two quickly in their growth. I would suggest we perhaps need a little more patience as these fora continue their growth.

In the meantime, perhaps we could be a little more descriptive in our Titles and Descriptions to enable members to scan through the offerings more quickly.

Instead of "This Script Doesn't Work!!!", perhaps something like

Title: ASP/Access Database Insert script giving me problems
Description" Giving error #7858763-d

or something like that.

Just an idea.

Onya
Woz

(edited by: Woz at 7:49 am (utc) on Mar. 26, 2002)

Lisa_Lia




msg:504628
 7:35 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

"Cross Pollination is Good", except when you are allergic to the Microsoft Flowers! Aaaashuw!

For example Gardening questions could go in a Gardening Forum. But what good would desert questions do with Rain Forest gardening? Everything needs its own place.

Ok, this is how I would lay it out. Drilling down into Server Side Scripting I would arrive at this screen.
[suh.com...]

For your question about Normalization I would still have the generic level. So For example if I wish to know what is the better form; third normal form or forth normal form for a particular schema I would ask that question in the general database forum. But if it is a clear MySQL issue. I would ask it in the MySQL forum at not bother all the Windows people. I would have a big disclaimer on the database forum that says to file the question or comment in the language if a language is involved at all. So if I have a MySQL/PHP issue file that in MySQL. But everything in its own place.

gethan




msg:504629
 9:45 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think splitting the server side script forum is not quite as simple as dividing into php/perl/asp. But I also agree the server side scripting, and website technology fora are a little muddied.

Also php/perl/asp are all programming languages that are used to implement the cgi standard - so seperate fora for each is not neccessarily appropriate. (php and perl are so similar in many repects that a lot would be lost).

Also splitting unix/windows is not so useful, apache, perl and php run across many platforms.

Open Source Server Side Scripting: (perl,php,mysql)
Proprietory Server Side Scripting: (asp, mysql er oracle)

Darn it - lots of my perl scripts are working with oracle and sybase.... so where would I post a question about that?

OK ... so my vote is keep as is or put into

MS Web Technologies (IIS, ASP, SQLServer, Access)
Server Side Scripting (Perl, PHP, MySQL, Sybase, Oracle)
Web Server Technologies (Apache erm is there another web server?? - mod_rewrite, other mod questions)

I think in the next year there will be a big increase in the numbers of java servlet/jsp type questions - as it increases in popularity.

In the short term Woz's suggestion: [php] Blah blah? - type subjects is great and I'll try to use that in future posts.

OK enough rambling -- hope that there are some useful ideas amoungst the mindless drivel.

sugarkane




msg:504630
 10:05 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'd like to echo gethan's comments about the Scripting and Technology fora being a bit muddled. Unfortunately there is a fair degree of overlap and it is sometimes difficult to decide where a post should go.

A post about Apache would seem to fit best into the Technology forum, but then if it's mod_rewrite and involves regular expressions... hmm, Scripting? It's tricky, and I don't really know the answer.

I'm not sure that splitting off ASP/M$ is warranted, as the same concepts underly all scripting languages and often an answer will be applicable or useful whatever your preference of language.

Having said that, we seem to be very *nix-centric here. If I could ask members with ASP experience to help out by checking over the ASP posts and maybe contributing an answer, that side of things may grow enough to warrant it's own forum in the future?

Added: Yep, I second Woz's suggestion of putting the language/database etc in the title of the post. A fine idea :)

mole




msg:504631
 11:29 am on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

I don't know enough about what the WebMasterWorld forum software is capable of to know if this is possible but how about this for an idea.........

from the top down, exactly as per the right hand side of the home page: major topics branching between say three to twelve times at each level.

From the bottom up, all the actual threads fitting into the best possible position in the forum heirarchy.

And, in the middle, as much multiple linking as possible, so that for example you could find a thread discussing the integration of Perl and Apache on a Unix box by any of these routes......

Server Side Scripting---->Perl
or
Web Site Technology issues---->Apache
or
Linux Unix & *nix---->Unix

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