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Perhaps the AdSense Forum Should be Split in Two?
100+ Forum?
humblebeginnings




msg:503674
 2:51 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

A while ago there was a post of someone asking for the possibility of splitting the forum in two:
one part for new members, and one part for those of us who have been around here for a while.

When I read that message it sounded arrogant to me; these old f*rts thinking they are so special they need their own forum.

I am not so sure about that anymore. For the past month this forum is flooded with many new members posting spammy, insulting and plainly lazy threads.

I am sorry to say it like this. I once posted my first message and really, my first messages (and my current messages for that matter) weren't that clever.

And of course I know there are so many new members here who wish to play the game fair, who first read and then ask, and who never start to insult or threaten other folks. But I think we can't deny there are some new members doing damage to this forum.

The mods are doing a great job in removing spammy or insulting posts, but it looks like they are trying to stop a flood with a sponge.

Shouldn't there be some sort of trial-period in wich new WW-members can show that they are serious and motivated enough to post 100+ messages without the mods having to remove their posts all the time. And then they can move on to the "real" forum?

Perhaps I am getting to old for this game.
Apologies if I am insulting you with this post...

 

Jean




msg:503675
 3:02 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

So with currently 75 messages I'd still not be in the real forum and would have probably given up reading the 'unreal' forum by now :-(

On the other hand, I agree with you humblebeginnings (what an apt name for this particular thread), lazy, insulting, spammy or plain wacky new posters are a right pain in the you-know-where.

humblebeginnings




msg:503676
 3:13 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Sorry Jean, you're of course one of the good dudes.
But I do not have to remind you of the annoying messages the forum keeps getting for the past few weeks.

Roadkill




msg:503677
 3:15 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I know I havent been posting, but I have still been here. Educating myself with all of the great advice.

It seems like this started after the big crash. The forum hasnt been quite the same since then. Im not sure what the answer is but this is a valid point.

jchampliaud




msg:503678
 3:29 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

It seems like this started after the big crash.

What big crash?

spaceylacie




msg:503679
 3:48 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I guess he means when WebmasterWorld was down for a few days.

Jean




msg:503680
 3:49 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

October...I think that it was right after the Jagger update...WebmasterWorld was off line for ages.

Goober




msg:503681
 3:50 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Howdy,

Great idea but difficult to do. Would that mean that ALL messages need to moderated and spammy/nosense posts would be shunted to the appropriate category? Perhaps the Vets here need to "report" the posts that miss the target to mods.

Just a thought.

Goober

europeforvisitors




msg:503682
 3:54 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think the big crash was coincidental. This forum is just suffering from "word-of-mouth syndrome." It happens on most successful forums eventually. (I see the same phenomenon on a travel writers' forum that I visit regularly; as that forum has grown more popular, there have been more posts by new users who want easy answers and are too lazy to do their homework.)

OptiRex




msg:503683
 4:06 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

EFV is on the button here.

On many forums some new members take liberties and try to by-pass reading rules, TOS, T&C's etc.

Some of the new ones who have just learnt about Adsense suddenly believe it is a gold-paved route to riches without any effort if they can con someone into divulging all the "tricks" and foibles.

No one minds responding to genuine questions so long as the member has at least made an effort to find out an answer whether it may be correct or not.

And one thing we must impress on new members: We are not the Google Adsense team!

We do know a lot of the answers however some questions need directing at the team. That's why they are there.

21_blue




msg:503684
 4:17 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

To keep us all happy
Two fora ain't enough.
We'll need a third
To put extra stuff.

To keep "the creative",
And not be a mourner,
I need an outlet
Called "Poetry Corner"

Then I can read
What I write
And keep it out of
Everyone else's sight

On the other hand,
If we learn from each other,
We don't want
Newbies to smother

Another trick,
To sift out abuse,
Is in clever titles
That we could use

The pointless thread
Is often easy to spot.
Can't we just decide
To read it not?

OptiRex




msg:503685
 4:19 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

21_blue is obviously having poetry withdrawal symptoms:-)

Better than pms!

Play_Bach




msg:503686
 4:32 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

How about mod approval of new members posts? This is a strategy that works well for many Yahoo! Groups as spammers typically don't hit the boards that have new post moderation enabled. For example, perhaps the first five posts by a new member could be mod approved. After they pass that test, then the status of the new member would change to "unmoderated."

solidgas




msg:503687
 4:40 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

There is a subscriber area that the general members cannot view. From my understanding that forum doesn't have the spam problems.

europeforvisitors




msg:503688
 4:57 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

There is a subscriber area that the general members cannot view. From my understanding that forum doesn't have the spam problems.

I wouldn't say this forum has a spam problem. It does have a problem with repetitive threads from new users who haven't bothered to scroll back a day or two (or even a thread or two).

As for the Supporters Forum, there's been some decline in quality there, too, as Webmaster World has become more popular. In any case, it isn't the best place to go for AdSense information. This forum is still best for that, even if the signal-to-noise ratio has become a lot worse in recent months.

humblebeginnings




msg:503689
 5:02 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

21_blue, You just made my day!

Play_Bach




msg:503690
 5:06 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

> I wouldn't say this forum has a spam problem.

Sorry EFV, I was referring to spammers just to present an example where a policy of new member post moderation seems to be effective. In this case, it would be up to the mods to determine whether or not a new member got a green light (or not) to freely post. Surely, the mods are well aware of a good post from a bad one and could act accordingly, that's all.

europeforvisitors




msg:503691
 6:46 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

"Premoderation" isn't a bad idea, whether in general or for new members. The Google Search News forum is premoderated, unless I'm mistaken. Maybe it's time for the AdSense forum to go the same route.

Rodney




msg:503692
 6:52 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

The problem I have with it is that we were all new at one point. Sometimes the posts that may seem obvious to us are not so obvious to new folks.

Not everyone knows the right search terms to use to find the answers, and even though we may have seen it answered a few 100 times, it's the first time for them. They may not know the ins and outs of navigating this forum.

I agree that some of the posts are intentionally rude, but I think they are the minority and that to premoderate or separate the forums out would discourage new folks from getting help.

martinibuster




msg:503693
 6:59 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

A while ago there was a post of someone asking for the possibility of splitting the forum in two:
one part for new members, and one part for those of us who have been around here for a while.

Why New Members Should Never be Segregated

  • Many new members also ask great questions.
  • Teaching others is one of the best ways of discovering something new.
  • Helping new members grows community.
  • Many members asking newbie questions are experts/masters in other areas. Don't ever equate someone asking a newbie question with someone who is clueless. Especially in the AdSense forum, where the knowledge is specialized, it's easy for an expert webmaster to get lost in the details, especially with all the acronyms thrown around.

For the past month this forum is flooded with many new members posting spammy, insulting and plainly lazy threads... I think we can't deny there are some new members doing damage to this forum.

It's not just the new members. ;) Segregating members won't solve this issue. It's not just about the moderators keeping the lid on spam, either. It's also about good community membership, where older members lead by their example.

The mods are doing a great job in removing spammy or insulting posts, but it looks like they are trying to stop a flood with a sponge.

With books and newspapers and magazines recommending posting links in forums as a marketing technique (major corporations do it, too), is it any wonder that otherwise well meaning people sign up to promote themselves? Forum spammers often tend to be people who are misinformed rather than evil. It happens to all forums. The Forum Community Building forum [webmasterworld.com] is an eye opener.

Personally, I appreciate your concern and I think you're probably not alone.

Great post.

Play_Bach




msg:503694
 7:19 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

> Why New Members Should Never be Segregated

Though those points are all well and good, my suggestion regarding moderating initial posts by new members really has more to do with giving the mods (like yourself!) a chance to see/judge just how serious a new member is in contributing positively to this board. I don't see how that in any way would hamper things.

martinibuster




msg:503695
 7:27 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

That's a good point but I think it takes some members awhile to outgrow certain habits to become "good" members.

If we do pre-moderation it would probably be along the lines as in the Yahoo and Google Search News, where it applies to everyone. But I get the feeling that some members wouldn't like for the AdSense forum to go into a pre-moderated state.

andrea99




msg:503696
 7:40 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I think splitting a forum into parts where new members cannot post is a bad idea but there are some things that could be done apart from better moderation that would make the threads easier to scan.

If the left hand column were redesigned to make the member name easier to read, and if the join date, membership status and accumulated posts were more prominent, one could separate the wheat from the chaff more easily while still keeping newbie posts available for viewing.

I have always found avatars very useful on other forums for quickly scanning for posters I admire or detest. Perhaps that's too new-fangled and high tech for WebmasterWorld?

jchampliaud




msg:503697
 8:58 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

It seems to me part of the solution is to show a little more self discipline and just let 'can I click on my own ads' followed by 'I just got kicked out of AdSense, what do it do' threads die. I know it's fun to play around but every time there is a reply the thread goes back on top. Or better yet sticky the poster and tell them in a sentence or two to read awhile before posting.
When I first started here someone did that to me and it really helped.

ken_b




msg:503698
 9:10 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

I'm against any form of premoderation for the Adsense forum.

Play_Bach




msg:503699
 10:31 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

> I'm against any form of premoderation for the Adsense forum.

because?

Jafo




msg:503700
 10:49 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

Well, I am new here so I hope this isn't too bold. Perhaps if the adsense forum was split into different languages. I am finding that so many posts are almost impossible to read due to non-english speakers using poor translating software.

Just a suggestion.

21_blue




msg:503701
 10:55 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

According to the forums index, the Adsense forum is currently the second largest forum. The issue isn't one of newbies per se, but volume is perhaps becoming an issue.

The only "split" of Adsense that makes sense to me is on the basis of topic, which would fit in with the structure of the rest of WW. To get it down to the same size as other forums, it would need to be split 5 or 6 ways, such as:

  1. Adsense ad/adlink layout and page design
  2. Adsense administration/payments
  3. Adsense search and referrals
  4. Smartpricing
  5. Admission/banning
  6. Other Adsense matters

Oh, and 7. Poetry Corner, for me, humblebeginnings, and other ode addicts.

viggen




msg:503702
 10:57 pm on Feb 7, 2006 (gmt 0)

...not sure if this is technically possible with bbs, but on our board we have set that the first post of a new user can only be done in a special thread called "i have a question", (doesnt matter where he posts it will directed to that thread) so new people can ask great questions and other people know that this post is most probably for newbies, (if it is a real great new question that everyone is likely to be interested in, then the mods just move it to the regular fora), then the new members next 4 posts can only reply to an existing thread but not start a new one, after that no restrictions, this works very well for us and our members...

...just a tought...

regards
viggen

moTi




msg:503703
 12:26 am on Feb 8, 2006 (gmt 0)

people with few posts may be ww newbies but not necessarily new to adsense business. i know this sounds arrogant, but i wish the adsense forum could not only discriminate members between number of posts, but also between earning capacities and/or website stats, no kidding.

the quality level is not only deteriorating because of the mass of stupid questions, but also because of stupid answers.
it makes no sense for the adsense pros to seriously elaborate on certain statistical related issues and getting "tips" from people who earn 3.50$/month. in this context it could be almost considered sort of a protective mechanism to throw around with technical terms, where beginners don't understand a word - which nobody wants.

difficult to solve, but for lack of alternatives and considering that the share in the number of original posts decreases considerably with maturity of the user, i'd vote for some kind of newbie section, something like viggen has pointed out.

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