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This 94 message thread spans 4 pages: < < 94 ( 1 2 [3] 4 > >     
Haven't seen the Google Update History -- err Updated....

 5:43 am on Aug 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Are there plans to update this?




 8:26 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

> PR 4 pages.

do you update those daily?


 8:34 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

PR is irrelevent as far as getting indexed goes. Sure if you have a high PR then most likely you will get spidered daily because the site as dynamic content but that is not always the case as we know.

Many PR1 sites get spidered and indexed everyday and this happened before all the changes occured to the algo's and the update cycle.

You can for instance get 1 link from a PR 5 site and be indexed the next day, in full and be getting traffic. I know this I have done it several times. One of those sites is now PR 3 and I have not touched it for 3 months.

As someone mention on the previous page of this topic (I believe it was Mr Moderator himself) the changes have been and are taking place every second even right now as you read this. The concept is easy to grab and all you need to do is check your logs once or twice a day. Usually if GoogleBot doesnt come back after a visit then it has not found anything interesting or different on your site.

This is where optimization comes into the conversation and that is not the aim of this topic so I will keep shut.

Summary: Check your logs, keep tabs on what is going on and figure it out for yourself.



 8:34 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have PR4 pages that seldom get touched and they get freshened like clockwork. No new inbounds either, they're pretty neglected pages. With a couple, if they're linked from, the page that's linked to gets fresh listings.


 8:37 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

Dito, the site I mentioned in the above post has not been spidered except for new links and pages. All the new pages are there almost immediatly so therefore im guessing that Google is working on keeping things up to date rather than rec-aching everything.



 8:41 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've made a test recently:

New site, linked from established and often crawled PR 5 site: some pages indexed in two days.

Another new site, submitted to G, no inbound links AFAIK: visited and some pages indexed in two days.

Was very surprised about the latter.


 8:42 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

"The thrill is gone. The thrill is gone away!"

I will admit I do miss the dance.

I would imagine Webmaster World's traffic has declined a bit.


 8:42 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

> I have PR4 pages that seldom get touched...
> all you need to do is check your logs once or twice a day...

There must be some logic to the visits. It makes no sense that they happen randomly, regardless of frequency of updates, PR or backlinks.

I can check my logs and try to guess. But I doubt analyzing JUST my own logs will do. More diverse data is needed.


 8:51 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm kind of confused by what it means that there's no more monthly dance -- does that mean that once pages are crawled that they're re-indexed too? Because that's not my experience. I have several pages that Google has re-crawled multiple times (the date modified tag appears in the SERPS), but those pages are still stuck far down on Page Nowhere in the SERPs, even though I think they're more relevant and optimized much better that the pages above them.

The way I used to tell that a dance had happened was when all my new pages improved in ranking. Now all my new pages have been stuck for over a month.

If you were to tell me that Google will re-index my new pages whenever it gets around to it, I could buy that. But if it's the case that they're supposedly re-indexed ALREADY, then I've never been more confused.

Someone said that the details of the Google dance being dead were in "Forum 3" but I don't see numbers in the forum listing. Could someone post a link to the appropriate thread?

Thankie-doodle, -MBJ-


 8:54 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

Haven't seen the Google Update History.. [google.com]

Heh..there's a weird irony about all this.

Awhile back, I thought I'd put my dancing shoes away for good. As it turns out, I have to wear them all the time now.

- Chad


 9:03 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

It continually refreshes an index of some 3 billion Web pages, responding to most search queries in one second, and consistently delivering relevant results in a simple text format.

I found this very interesting [usatoday.com]


 10:04 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

Awhile back, I thought I'd put my dancing shoes away for good. As it turns out, I have to wear them all the time now.

Very sly...and true!


 11:39 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

The dance is still on.. Only the style has changed...from the Waltz to the Macarena :-)


 12:54 am on Aug 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

<edit, hope nobody saw that. ;)>

A little OT (Off Topic) but related, I have few bookmarks. I utilize the Google Toolbar every day, I'd say on average 5-6 times an hour, 12-14 hours a day. I locate my favorite sites through the SERPs (Search Engine Results Pages). Of course many of those favorites are my own. ;)


 3:24 am on Aug 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've been on the net before the abacus...
and I manage over 500 sites.
The GoogleGuy and I drink beer together every night.

Actually I know nothing... but I do enjoy listening to
Art Bell and making crop circles in my spare time.

Follow the money, as Rush would say...
a quick quote from a message in this thread..
"Then you saw a nice stream of visitors coming in from Google while the rest of the SE world ignored you and reminded you that you could pay them to be listed. Then you realized that Google was doing good enough for you that you didn't HAVE to pay to be listed if you content was good. "

Does anybody think that Google will go "pay for play" as
the other searches have? I think they will. If they are
going to go public (get listed, sell stock) then pay for
play (I think) would definitely be in the cards.

Are we coming out of the bottom of the curve of the cyclical business
period for the search engines? I see black!

And what about that 70's Show... you remember... Inktomia first feed
Yahoo... then it went altavisa (I think) yahdayahdayahda..
Bellbottoms, clamdigger and capri pants, Mary Tyler Moore came back...
Is Infoseek coming back?! boy that was fun changing a webpage every
five minutes and seeing immediate changes in the index... NOW therrre,
that was some kind'ah dancing...

Follow the money... follow the money.. follow the money...
John Q. Public has absolutely no clue to how "fresh" a search is...
so the money will come from..... Pay for placement, inclusion, or
regular "refreshes" paid to Google...
I'm sure many of you have pages out there in Looksmart... before
they started charging... with descriptions just as they were entered
years ago... like an old nostalgic postcard from some hottie you
met on the boardwalk when you were 16.

Cheers.. all comments are mine... and I think I owe GoogleGuy a
beer, jello shooter, or something....


 6:43 am on Aug 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Follow the money, as Rush would say...

So Rush likes to quote Deep Throat? ;)



 1:16 pm on Aug 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

uhh.. not sure about deep t.... but maybe
Clockwork Orange...
...dystopian masterpiece...where urban thugs run wild and new methods of [search engine manipulation] are being explored. Career gang member [insert your favorite DMOZ editor] is nabbed by the police and offered the chance to a commuted sentence if he undergoes a kind of surgical therapy. One where his brain does not allow him to execute [deleting of listings] [arbitrarily].



 3:46 pm on Aug 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've read through this thread and keep seeing refrences that the dance is dead... OK, great. Was there an official obtiuary? Is there a date of death under RIP on the tombstone? Was the last dance REALLY the last dance?

Makes me think of the Garth Brooks Song, The Dance

Please help me find the obit! I'd like to know where I was when "The Dance Died".


 4:59 pm on Aug 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

(sung to the lyrics from the Wizard of Oz)

Chorus by the Munchkins of WebmasterWorld
Ding Dong! The dance is dead. Which Dance? The Google Dance!
Ding Dong! The Google Dance is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Google Dance is dead.

She's gone where search engines go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho,
Let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know ...
The Google Dance is dead!

As Mayor of WebmasterWorld, In the County of Internet, I welcome you most regally.

But we've got to verify it legally, to see...

To see?

If she ...

If she?

Is morally, ethic'lly ...

Spiritually, physically

Positively, absolutely

Undeniably and reliably Dead

As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her.
And she's not only merely dead, she's really most sincerely dead.

Then this is a day of sadness For all the WebmasterWorld members and their descendants!

If any.

Yes, let the historical news be spread The beloved Google Dance is dead!


 8:11 pm on Aug 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Curtain falls.

Lock thread. :D


 12:31 am on Aug 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

Question about this dead dance: Does that mean that all pages in the SERPs are already ranked/indexed? Or is it the case that page X will just get re-ranked whenever Google gets around to it?

The way it used to be was that my new pages would appear (or old pages re-crawled) in the index, but they wouldn't get bumped up until the dance. I'd know when the dance happened because all my edited pages would move up. But now I have pages which have been stuck in very low positions for over a month, even though they ought to rank a lot higher.

Is it the case that the pages aren't re-ranked yet and that Google will re-rank them when it gets around to it (which I could accept), or is every page in the SERPs now supposedly already ranked (in which case I panic because I don't know why my results don't move up anymore)?

Thanks for any insight anyone can share.



 12:54 am on Aug 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

Is it the case that the pages aren't re-ranked yet and that Google will re-rank them when it gets around to it

Yes. :)

The thing is that you will not know when Google might update your page or page rank. My site and page rank were updated a couple of days ago. Who knows when it will happen again ... but my guess is that it will be more regularly for those sites which change frequently and less regularly for those which historically don't. (Don't quote me though ... its only a guess!)


 7:03 am on Aug 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

> (sung to the lyrics from the Wizard of Oz)

... Liane ... what whimsy ... what panache ...

you know them so well!

I won't be able to get the melody out of my head for the next week now, and do I need to say ... when I visit G ... <grin>



 1:05 pm on Aug 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

> General public never watched it.
> i never knew there was something
> called google dance till i came here

What, so you you were walking down the street and you found a paper with the WebmasterWorld url on it? I'd bet a months pay that you came to this site directly or indirectly via 'the update' or one of it's children topics.


 5:12 pm on Aug 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Bad thing is that was the fun time of each month. Now dont have anything exciting to look forward to... Better go take up a hobby on my free time. Guess its for the best! :)


 5:20 pm on Aug 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

What, so you you were walking down the street and you found a paper with the WebmasterWorld url on it? I'd bet a months pay that you came to this site directly or indirectly via 'the update' or one of it's children topics.

You lose :-)

brotherhood of LAN

 5:26 pm on Aug 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

I can't find the thread where I originally posted that the dance was over (that was a few months ago). In that thread I offered some wild guesses as to what was transpiring at Google. Guess what, all those wild guesses have come to light.....

You might be referring to a thread that Brett started in supporters? ;) It should be tucked a few pages in, if i remember right there was quite a lengthy thread there titled "liquid pagerank" but was pretty much on topic with this thread.


 7:15 pm on Aug 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's kind of like graduating from high school (with those highly stressful dances every month or two) and going to college (with parties every few nights). Our little Googlebot is growing up.

GoogleDance is dead. Long live GoogleJam!


 11:41 pm on Aug 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Special thanks to pageoneresults and liane

I'm relatively new to WebmasterWorld, at least as far as posting or caring much, and I'll admit, that was a mistake, since there are a lot of useful tips around here. But I have had to deal locally with 'the dance', and have often been amazed at the similarity to OCD as in 'step on a crack....' type thinking.

'If I'm not watching the dance! It won't watch *ME*!'

Marketing is one of the more nebulous of arcane arts, and SEO is without a doubt the most voodooish of the marketing arts.

No doubt that there *is* something to those dark arts though! Within a year my parner has managed to bring all of our customers up to page one ranking for their most important keywords, and you can't really argue with 'success', even when it's 'hold this rock and chant 'googlerama' three times and tigers will not eat you!

Since I'm not really an SEO kinda guy, feel free to move on before I state my opinion, but, my opinion is that this is all just more of the same... higher resolution views of the web.

When there were only a few algorithms to deal with, they were the height of arcane. Until the algo-masters changed them to throw off the unwary.

Look at it as evolution in action.

Now there are more algos, and they could change every day. SEO's have adapted to survive.

Certainly Google would prefer to have *all* search results paid, but they seem sane enough to realize the fatality in becomming a 'paid' search engine.

Hungry info-maniacs would soon supplant you.

The dance may be dead, but the new SEO algo is running



 1:11 pm on Aug 26, 2003 (gmt 0)

But didn't google just do a dance on Aug 11?


 10:45 pm on Aug 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Now, in regards to backlinks and PageRank, that is another story. I still feel that we are being groomed for the demise of PageRank, I really do. You don't have to believe me, but just keep your eyes open and watch what happens over the next few months.

That would suit me fine. PageRank in and of itself is a nice idea. The problem was that Google let the cat out of the bag,then they put the PageRank indicator into the Toolbar. All of the focus in site development started to turn to PageRank optimization instead of content optimization. This,effectively,made PageRank a source of bias instead of a search results quality tool. Pages which were designed well and contained relevant information wound up getting buried well beyond the 3 page limit that most search engine visitors will normally read. This also led to a frenzy of link trading to try and build backlink referrals. This further skewed the results making them not as relevant as possible.

PageRank for the sake of PageRank became the order of the day as Google became more and more dominant. This,sadly,resulted in the demise of many sites who couldn't get SERP position or afford PPC (pay-per-click search engine listing) or PFI (pay for search engine inclusion - generally by the page).

Google can afford to devalue or even to lose PageRank. They have many advantages over most of the other search engines. I still believe that Altavista's Babelfish language translator is superior. For now,at least,they seem to offer quality search results within a reasonably short update time frame. Remember,Google is not in the business of delivering traffic to businesses. Their business is to deliver high-quality,relevant,unbiased search results to visitors. They parlay this into contracts with other companies who want to take advantage of a huge influx of search visitors and who want to offer the same high-quality search results.

It seems that Microsoft is grouping for yet another search engine war. Most people generally believe that the large reserves of Microsoft marketing money and their ability to combine their search with their browser will garner them a large share of the search market. This threat has forced everyone in the market to adapt,and quickly. This is a good thing for everyone. Google can't afford for a negative perception of PageRank or any of their technology to cost them market share.

PageRank importance has been decreasing steadily over the past couple of years. I wouldn't be suprised to see it decrease even more or completely disappear. What I'm wondering is this: The heart and soul of PageRank is backlinks. Does this mean that backlinks will also become less relevant? If that is the case then I would think that we're drifting back towards the old "content is king" days when search engines seeemed to be working to deliver results featuring well-constructed pages which offered relevant content instead of relying on a "gimmick" that wound up skewing search results.


 10:53 pm on Aug 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

But didn't google just do a dance on Aug 11?

In the past a "dance" would update backlinks and PageRank across the board. I've seen no indication of a mass update of either.

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