| 7:44 am on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
pmkpmk, I saw coverage on many blogs, forums and on many news websites.
To say that it was over rated is abit far fetched, for many people Google was and still is the number 1 search engine and this was the time of the month when their index would update, it was a chance to see if new pages were added, check if the PR increased.... see if the RDF dump had made it into the directory.
| 7:59 am on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
The real question is, with the end of the big monthly updates, and the accompanying huge webmaster interest, if a tree fell in the woods, does it make a sound?
Webmasters watched it, and that's pretty much it. The dance was a monthly intense focus on Webmasterworld that other webmaster communities could only dream of. And now that is gone. Houston - Red flag, red flag.
I don't think there are but 1 or maybe 2 people at Wembasterworld who really GET what the dance was meaningless and ROI was the way to go. All I can say is we are going to watch the next year as the biggest change in the history of Webmasterworld. We will look back on the loss of "the dance"--and stuff like "the only known pic of GoogleGuy is in the Supporters Forum, pony up!" as a big turning point.
| 8:07 am on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
As I said - it's only my opinion. For me, Google is for some years the #1 reference as well - even with being ignorant about the dance.
I have profited from the new indexing: I recently established Dutch pages for my existing German/English site. My doorway-page is PR6 so it took only 2 days until the new Dutch pages were included in the index...
| 8:59 am on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>> Are there plans to update this?
>> With what?
Hmm.. there's the "Fritz" thing... somewhat like an update, sort of, albeit not all that much dancing... It had changes in Yahoo, PR, Backlinks and SERPS and enough buzz to give the phenom a name at least...
Fritz ought to go there imho
| 9:24 am on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|General public never watched it. i never knew there was something called google dance till i came here...that's the difference...most webmasters will be relieved..and google just gets to do their business as usual. |
Yes - my friends used to laugh when I told them I was off to watch the Google dance. They had no idea what it was.
It's a blessing and a curse for WebmasterWorld that it's gone. The meteoric rise to fame for WebmasterWorld has ended, but now the discussion should be a little more interesting.
| 10:38 am on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Maybe the big question is 'what is Google's motivation in doing this?'
Is there a big deal for syndication up and coming (or a big loss) which would make this a good business decision for Google.
| 10:44 am on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think the loss of the dance is very historic, kind of sad and it must be frightening for SEO types. Yes? No?
Brett is absolutely right ... it was the focus which Google rec'd every month that was truly invaluable to Google. During the update, all eyes were on Google making their perceived importance even greater than it really was/is. Now, Google watchers everywhere have virtually nothing to use as a yard stick to evaluate how Google is doing and what they are up to.
Webmasters/seo'ers world wide watched "the dance" and waited (while chewing their nails) for the results of the update. Now what? Imagine what seo'ers are telling their clients:
"Well, wait a few days, weeks, months and then check your site's results again." I'm sure you'll see a change sometime!"
Personally, I think this will have a negative impact (overall) for Google. It takes them out of the spotlight and puts them squarely in the same bin with all other (hum drum) SE's. Too bad. Maybe they will see the negative impact and bring the dance back! They are pretty good about admitting their mistakes and stepping back from major plans which haven't worked in the past.
Sorry GG ... I think this one is a big mistake, unless of course the dance is going to be replaced with something even more amusing. Doubtful, but I'll wait and see. :)
| 11:53 am on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|During the update, all eyes were on Google making their perceived importance even greater than it really was/is. |
But only among webmasters, or more precisely: only among knowing webmasters.
I still strongly doubt that a significant number of web-users ever took notice.
|"Well, wait a few days, weeks, months and then check your site's results again." I'm sure you'll see a change sometime!" |
Personally, I think this will have a negative impact (overall) for Google.
It rather seems to me that it might have a negative impact on companies specialized in SEO - as you stated in your fictitious quote quite correctly.
| 12:24 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
It was definately easier for SEO companies to talk themselves up before. They could even predict the date when their client would see an improvement.
Not any more.
| 12:37 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Yes, I think that's one reason for the mourning. Those huge delays in listings which other diretories and search engines have make it definitly a challenge to sell SEO.
If an SEO company (or their customer) want's to see an IMMEDIATE effect, AdWords might be a solution. I only started using AdWords 10 days ago and already NOW I am seeing a very good, direct, measurable feedback.
| 12:47 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>Those huge delays in listings which other diretories and search engines have make it definitly a challenge to sell SEO.
We have to sell services long term now. It isn't as simple and straighforward as it was. I won't touch anything even small for less than three months and six months minimum is better.
| 1:20 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I'm not a SEO-company. I do "webmastering" and SEOing for internal purposes.
You'd have a hard-time selling 3-months-min, better 6-months-contracts to MY boss. I don't envy people running a (small) SEO business with small-to-medium sized companies as customers...
| 1:22 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Just reading up on the Search Engine Strategies, Day one. The article headlined with this: "While many attendees were recovering from the Google Dance the night before..." Have they not been informed that the dance is dead there? I figured those guys would be amongst the best informed in the industry, yet they are still watching "the dance".
| 1:43 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
This is what it was about. You found a niche with beatable sites in the top five. You put up a new site and watched the logs. You saw very little activity but you saw this google bot. A month later this search engine named Google had every freaking page indexed nice and tidy and you said WOW, Google is cool. Then you saw a nice stream of visitors coming in from Google while the rest of the SE world ignored you and reminded you that you could pay them to be listed. Then you realized that Google was doing good enough for you that you didn't HAVE to pay to be listed if you content was good.
So every month you watched how Google did what no one else could or would do, index a new site for free and give it ranking based on merit. So you tried to make your site even better for users and watched Google to see if it took notice each month.
That is gone now. Will someone else duplicate the effort? Who knows.
| 1:53 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I get your point. FINALLY I get your point!
But - correct me if I'm wrong - the bots are still crawling and still pages are included for free and still the bots finde EVERY page... It's just that it is not a fixed date anymore?
| 2:36 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Currently I'm doing antivirus software and have a dance every night as new pages are added for msblast, sobig.f and...
Anyway I agree with folks here emphasizing the AWARENESS of Google caused by the monthly updates. I really wonder if anybody, except for us SEO geeks, has noticed the change in serps and schedules.
Google is not dead, but has lost some of it's magic.
| 3:04 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Ok, there is no dance anymore and pages are refreshed and indexed continuously, but what about back links and page rank?
There must be some kind of frequency.
I have about 10 sites and about a couple of weeks ago I experienced some noticeable increase in my traffic with no reason. Two weeks later, the new page rank was reflected in the toolbar but traffic did not increase. It seems that the Page Rank was reflected in the traffic two weeks before it was shown in the toolbar.
So I believe there must be a page rank dance or a back links dance or whatever. It is matter of identifying the new Google cycles. But I guess that cycles or little dances still exists.
Am I wrong?
| 3:24 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
There must be some kind of frequency
Yes, I agree... there COULD be an update chart that would map fresh tag status changes, and overall list changes. The problem is that it couldn't be manual because the state changes every other day or so.
It months for everyone to come to terms that the dance was dead, and it will be even longer before the subtleties of the weekly cycle is gererally agreed upon.
| 3:51 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Greetings and Gidday from Downunder Folks,
So ... the Dance is Dead?
Not before b****y time, as we colonials in these here parts are wont to say ...
It amazed me how much time and energy was expended on it. You lot are more obsessive than some twitchers I know. ;-)
| 4:14 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
It's a conspiracy!
The techie that killed the dance is probably the same techie that spilled coffee on the switchboards at the power plant that caused the major blackout!
Rumor has it he held jobs at Enron and Worldcom as well..
| 5:29 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Seems to me...this wasn't any ordinary dance...
More like a punk rock slam dance mosh pit kinda thingy.
(I never did like the s** pistols)
Is Johnny Rotten setting the Algo for google or what?
| 5:49 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
The monthly Google Dance is history. What we have now is the Daily Google Dance. Each and every minute we particpate here at WebmasterWorld, Google's index is being updated. You may not see it, but someone, somewhere else is seeing it because of the dancing between data centers.
I can't find the thread where I originally posted that the dance was over (that was a few months ago). In that thread I offered some wild guesses as to what was transpiring at Google. Guess what, all those wild guesses have come to light.
It's so cool to add a page today and then see it pulling in traffic within 24-48 hours. Now that's a dance if there ever was one! No more waiting, no more 300 post threads trying to figure out what the heck is going on.
Now, in regards to backlinks and PageRank, that is another story. I still feel that we are being groomed for the demise of PageRank, I really do. You don't have to believe me, but just keep your eyes open and watch what happens over the next few months.
| 7:05 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|...don't think there are but 1 or maybe 2 people at Google who really GET what the dance meant to Googles public image efforts. |
I agree with Brett.
For days on end we were glued to Google - being exposed to the brand constantly for consecutive days on end. It also gave everyone participating in the growing SEO community an "in" if they knew about it. It's the same with PageRank.
Look at the TV show "Survivor", the hype was at an all time high when the producers were letting people "hack" their site for secrets (and red herrings). It created the biggest buzz of that year across many media outlets and fan bases. It emotionally branded every viewer - and that's what Google was doing with the dance (not to mention all the press, posts, speculation, and excitement it created).
After the death of the "dance", I'm sure we'll be able to acclimate to anything else Google throws at us, however, if they decide to kill PageRank - Google won't lose us because they've taken it away, they will lose us because they ceased to make us CARE about Google, it's updates, and it's uniqueness.
| 7:09 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|For me, Google is for some years the #1 reference as well - even with being ignorant about the dance. |
pmkpmk - how can google be your #1 referrer for years and you don't notice the dance? You weren't paying attention...
Anyhow - the king is dead! Long live the king!
| 7:22 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
thanks for the comments pageoneresults.
I have been closely monitoring a group of sites, some of which have freshbot show up every other day, while others get much less frequent activity. Closer analysis revealed that google would visit a one particular site and do a deepish crawl every other day. Any site that this was linked to this site received an index page ONLY crawl every other day....
Have any insight into inspiring deeper crawls at those sites currently receiving an index page only crawl?
| 7:34 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|Any site that this was linked to this site received an index page ONLY crawl every other day |
This is exactly what we have seen, too.
| 7:36 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|Have any insight into inspiring deeper crawls at those sites currently receiving an index page only crawl? |
You know, I wish I had a definitive answer for you on this one. I manage about 30 sites and all of them are crawled regularly. The only thing I can tell you is that fresh content and continual updating seem to be the key in keeping Freshbot in close proximity and having new pages added in less than 48-72 hours. I should also point out that 95% of these sites have been online for more than 6 months so there is an age factor at play here.
| 7:57 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
|It's so cool to add a page today and then see it pulling in traffic within 24-48 hours. |
Just like the days with Alta Vista and Web Position Gold!
| 8:10 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>It's so cool to add a page today and then see it pulling in traffic within 24-48 hours.
if you are PR 7 only.
| 8:21 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Not at all, I have numerous PR 4 pages that get indexed daily - just deep link to new content from them and they get added within about 48 hours.
| 8:26 pm on Aug 21, 2003 (gmt 0)|
> PR 4 pages.
do you update those daily?
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