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European Search Engines Forum

    
Important French and Spanish SEs
Which to register with
mpthink




msg:495249
 10:08 am on Mar 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi guys

I was just wondering if, say, you had a client who exported <snip> around the world, which of the French and Spanish search engines or directories you think are the most important to register in? Which should you definitely not miss?

If you suggest any it would be good to know if they are free or ppi and if so how much.

Thanks in advance for any help :)

[edited by: Brett_Tabke at 9:23 am (utc) on Mar. 24, 2004]
[edit reason] No keywords per the tos please [/edit]

 

OddDog




msg:495250
 8:27 am on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

spain

google.es
yahoo.es
msn.es

terra.es
lycos.es

thats 99% of the market for you.

silverbytes




msg:495251
 4:52 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

Am I wrong or submitting to google.es one you are in dmoz listed would bring you a penalty?

I mean: if you are listed in dmoz (and google take the results from there) in other category, they don't like you submit your site again to other category.
And theres no way to suscribe to google.es without doing it in dmoz.

The same will happen with other search engine that uses dmoz.

Please correct me if Im wrong.
Thank you!

OddDog




msg:495252
 5:11 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

i am not aware that this is an issue.

i use dmoz to craft my description, (but hey google have not updated from the dmoz db for sooo long now)

silverbytes




msg:495253
 3:50 pm on Mar 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Do you mean you submit to dmoz AND google separately?
Does google accept that?

Rumbas




msg:495254
 4:04 pm on Mar 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

silverbytes, you can easily submit to both. Google wont penalize you for submitting to them. If you're listed in dmoz - don't submit again.

However submitting to Google probably wont do you any good. They'll find through links to your site anyway.

If you could get banned from submitting to Google, I think a lot of people would submit their competitors sites ;)

silverbytes




msg:495255
 8:03 pm on Mar 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Good point...

Laurent




msg:495256
 6:08 pm on Apr 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi mpthink!

For french SEs :
- Google.fr,
- Yahoo.fr PFI 250 euros,
- Voila.fr, PFI 199 euros,
- MSN.fr, free for the categories,
- AOL.fr, free for the categories,
- Lycos,

Laurent

alphametron




msg:495257
 8:31 am on Apr 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi Laurent and other members!

I'm new to this. I would like to put my website on to European Google Search Engines. How important do you think it is that the site be translated into the local languages? I think most people in Europe are educated to read English. What do you suggest? I also want to feature the site as selling Australian products. Does this warrant translation into other languages?

Contributions from other members are also most welcome.

Thank you one and all.

Eric_Jarvis




msg:495258
 12:11 pm on Apr 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have found using local languages to be extremely useful...for a start some well used directories and SEs require it...but mostly because it's a mark of respect even where your potential customers might be able to get at your information in English...you are telling them you think their needs are important...it's good marketing and not expensive to do

there is also a lot less competition in some languages...it's much easier to top the list at Google for a search term in Spanish than in English

Leosghost




msg:495259
 12:50 pm on Apr 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

In spite of what one might think the only SE's worth bothering with from France are AOL or Google or MSN ...I run personal sites here and have seen almost zero traffic from any other SE's in France ..

Also I translate / interface with the English speaking world for a major French host company ( we host a good few thousand French clients ) ..we only use these 3 ...

Talking to "our" clients ( hosted companies ) ..the traffic from any other than these 3 adds up to less than 1% of what they get and certainly doesn't justify paying to get on the SE data base ....of such as Yahoo or Voila..

There is such a high degree of paranoia here with regards to "online "purchasing via credit cards ( in the main fostered by scare stories (always withoout giving examples) in the media ..who have links to major catalogue sales companies of which France has the highest world usage of retail catalogues by far ) that the "sales" via the internet lag well behind those of other European countries ...

Secondly the assumption that learning English is in all European countries is encouraged is erroneous ...

In France the opposite is true ...the learning of English is positively discouraged via all the media and the educative system as potentially "polluting" the French Language ....We even have a law requiring that 40% of all radio airplay must be French language ..regardless of the ability of the singer to stay in tune ....

Similar laws apply to TV ..( wherever you are... if you think you have "mindless TV programmes" you should see TF1 , M6 or Antenne 2 ou 3 ...and our "culture channel "Arte" shows enough "High Opera" to make you want to bite your own leg off ...the rare quality programmes (documentaries etc )are usually incredibly badly translated from the UK or USA or Australia )...

The lack of competence in English ( even amongst the computor savvy and programmers who only know "tech speak" ..but can't read a novel intended for a 10 year old English speaking kid )....keeps those of us who are able to use English and French fluently in translation work....

BTW ..most senior French politicians speak reasonable English and they send their kids to schools to learn it as it is seen as the language of business and power ..but they encourage via legislation the kids of others to learn German or Spanish or Russian etc FIRST....English is very much in the position that Latin once was in the middle ages ...reserved for the use of the Elite and their offspring ....

And without wishing to cause offense to Laurent or other French reading this I can tell you that as someone who has learned my French from "zero" in the 14 yrs that I've lived here ....every time I meet a French person who says they are fluent in English ( including politicians ) ...within 5 minutes of conversation in English with them ..I always have to revert to speaking French otherwise they cannot understand me ....due to their lack of taught vocabulary ....

My one exception to this is a French sculptor friend who lives 10 months per year in the USA.....

This is because the quality of English which is taught in French schools is even more lamentable than the quality of the French I was taught by the English school system .....
( OH .....and boy was that lousy and irrelevant to modern day! )

The only thing worse is what "trad' 'progs" such as "babel fish" etc do to Eng/Fre or Fre/Eng ....they really crack up anyone who speaks /reads/writes in more than one language .........

Last but not least ...I think at the moment there are just 2 or 3 shopping cart / credit card interfaces ( that should be "interfacii" as a plural I know ) in French that go all the way through from the moment you hit the website to the receipt you get from your puchase that are entirely in French...and so make the average French person feel confident enough to purchase ..

I 'm not counting those proposed by our ISP's such as Tiscali or Wanadoo etc as they only accept payment on "approved" or "agreee" by themselves businesses ( which involves you in exclusive sales rights , baksheesh, payment 30 days after delivery of goods etc etc ) ... I've been there ...bad deal ....bad taste in mouth ...

This all said the market is huge and basically untapped by foreign businesses unless "fed" via "les Belges"....We only have one cut price "pc ink" seller available online for 60 million people and he is in Belgium... nextdoor ...he buys in China ( in English ) and sells in France in French .....!

If you need any further translation advice or whatever for the French / English or English / French area you can sticky me here at WebmasterWorld.........

PS ....I'm not English so I am unbiased and objective and as said ..work in this area daily :))

PPS ...99% of all the spam received at my French email accounts is "untargetted" English language stuff ..so some of you in the English speaking world are paying a fortune to spam your products at people who can't understand a word of your sales pitches ..... :))

jimitwilight




msg:495260
 2:15 pm on Apr 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi everybody,

First, I would like to agree with Leosghost: most Frenchspeaking persons (even in Belgium where I live) don't understand English.

Silverbytes, I have a threelinguistic website (dutch/french/english) and I'd say, yes, add your site, with a good French/Spanish description, or what ever other foreign language it may be to the DMOZ directory. Don't forget to add it in the different languages. You will have it appear in different directories using dmoz.org (and there aren't a few in number!).
One condition : your site will have to contain the language you add Ónd will have to be well written, i.e. no grammar mistakes.
Best is to get hold of a professional translator if you don't know the language or at least use the word spelling corrector. (I heard of an auto-translate programming language, but can't remember the name).

As for adding your site to directories, etc.

Yahoo: if it is a business site, you have to pay for it, that is correct, if not, it's free
Voila.fr : same there

I believe you know all ways of autosubmitting (if not just enter 'free autosubmit' in google and something will turn op that you will be able to use).
There are other good French directories that shouldn't be ignored. Enter 'directoire ajouter site' in Google.fr, you will soon have quite a extra, free (gratuit) directories, which only ask for a backlink. Add the backlink and click on it from time to time is what I was told (I don't know if that was true, but it makes sence). You might sometimes have to take a free emailaddress (I've always wondered why), etc. etc. etc.

That's about it.

Good luck!

Jim

Leosghost




msg:495261
 2:45 pm on Apr 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Bienvenue dans WebmasterWorld Jimitwilight...ša va?

alphametron




msg:495262
 2:43 am on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

To Laurent, Eric_Jarvis, Leosghost, Jimitwilight ... Hey you guys .... I am overwhelmed with the response to my query. Thank you so much. It can be very isolating dealing with cyberpace .... and you guys have been most supportive.

All advice has been well received and digested to be acted upon. I'll urghh ... start translating my site now. I'll try French and Italian first.

Leosghost - Esque tu parles le Francais assez bien pour m'assister a traduire? C'est surtout la grammaire et la conjucation des verbes qui me peinent. Le Francais etait ma premiere langue mais j'ai cesse l'ecole Francaise quand j'avais 9 ans.

Once again, Leo, Laurent, Jimitwilight and Eric_Jarvis
Thank you so much!

Eric_Jarvis




msg:495263
 1:28 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Leosghost...I've been looking for easily usable and genuinely multilingual shopping carts...I'll not get to delve into it thoroughy until later in the week, but X-Cart seems to fit the bill.

[edited by: Rumbas at 2:23 pm (utc) on April 27, 2004]
[edit reason] URL snipped as per TOS :) [/edit]

fazer600




msg:495264
 3:40 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

alphametron if you really want to know how important it is to translate your page (accurately) into a 'foreign' language just ask yourself how important is it to sell to each country. when was the last time you bought a product from a website in spanish? after all spanish is spoken by so many people worldwide, can we also asume that you should therefore understand spanish and be able to purchase from spanish websites?

if you are considering submitting to non english se's then don't waste your time and get your site translated first.

i was teaching english in spain a few years ago and many people don't see why they should bother to learn english as a large number of english tourists over there don't bother to learn spanish.

also while living in germany i found that most young germans can understand a reasonable level of english. but (for obvious reasons) quite a few older people don't understand anything at all.

things like delivery instructions and your privacy policy are so important you wouldn't want anyone to missunderstand anything simply because the dictionary gave lots of vague definitions for a word

the level of language teaching is also very dubious when i know some teachers confuse he and she.

alphametron




msg:495265
 4:32 pm on Apr 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

Dear Fazer600

Thank you Fazer600. I agree with you, and I've had similar good advice from other members. I appreciate the support I have received from yourself and the others.

Kindest regards,
Alphametron

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