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Ilse.nl beta goes live
Damian




msg:493844
 2:03 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

The beta search engine that was tested at campus.ilse.nl is now live at www.ilse.nl

It looks like pagina.nl (directory) listings aren't considered anymore in the ranking..good news IMO as it used to be impossible to get on top of the Ilse results for any page that did not have a pagina.nl listing.

 

heini




msg:493845
 2:08 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

>pagina.nl (directory) listings aren't considered anymore in the ranking
Okay, do those listings still get a site included? What ways are there to get in?

Damian




msg:493846
 2:17 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)


Looks like the most direct way is the standard submissions form [aanmelden.ilse.nl]

My..The form has a long memory..this is engine/database change no.3 at least and they are still banning a domain of mine that was banned 3 years ago..

vitaplease




msg:493847
 2:17 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks Damian,

I did remember an audio interview at voelspriet.nl saying they would eventually include the startpagina.nl daughters.

also top 15 searched words:
[ilsemedia.nl...]

vitaplease




msg:493848
 2:28 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Webmasterhints (from Ilse):

[aanmelden.ilse.nl...]

They do not like cloaking and redirects (redirects within a site are not followed by their robot).

They have a seperate "actueel" search option.

Most fresh (actueel) pages get a small advantage in their "algo".

You can become "actueel" by simply resubmitting your site (even daily).

Pagina daughters get an advantage in the algo ranking according to this page.

The only advanced search option seems to be "+" and "-"

Tor




msg:493849
 2:43 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

It is almost impossible for my eyes to read the submission code. It`s blurry and ist doesn`t get better even when I refresh the code. Have you guys got the same problems, or is it simply me getting old? ;)

Rumbas




msg:493850
 3:22 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm still seeing a lot of the pagina subdirectories in the serps, but I think you're right Damian, they're not crucial for ranking anymore.

<edit>Weird - I'm sure I typed them in ;) Thanks for the heads up Damian!</added>

[edited by: Rumbas at 4:24 pm (utc) on Feb. 18, 2003]

Damian




msg:493851
 4:18 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Rumbas, some words missing in your post but I think you agree with me they are not crucial anymore.. :)

May still have some influence of course..I don't know yet. Hadn't heard the interview Vitaplease mentions so there may be more to come.

slightly of topic..I just followed a funny looking regular text ad from above the serps to [vakantie.overzicht.nl...]
Ilse.nl is getting smarter about affiliate marketing, it's an ordinary affiliate type site advertised as an external site but owned by Ilse.nl...tsk..tsk..

Trix999




msg:493852
 6:19 pm on Feb 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

From what I'm seeing, especially titles and keyword rich domains are getting away with the prizes. Seeing lots of spammy keyword1-keyword2.coms at the top of the listings.

But Google had the same problem a couple of months a go, so I guess it looks pretty good

Remco




msg:493853
 9:35 am on Feb 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Also very curious if the starpagina.nl directory listings will become more important.

I agree with Trix999 that a lot of keywords-rich-domains have high rankings, a bit to high if you ask me. Unfortunatly, I am less positive about Ilse finding a solutions.

The overzicht.nl sites are very tricky, last week they introduced the vacture.overzicht.nl (JOBS) saying the current pagina was not meeting the required standard (good joke if you compare with what they made)

One more thing, going live with the beta version would have been the perfect moment introducing pay per click ads.... What do you guys think?

Remco




msg:493854
 9:44 am on Feb 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sorry, one more reply...

If I look at the source of sites in the new Ilse SE that are ranking better then they should I get a flash back to some years ago....

The Ilse SE before the old one became after a while totally stuffed with spamy sites. The problem is that after a while everybody knew about it and was using it. SEO could be done by everybody on a many different keywords, I am getting the feeling again and afraid that the secret for success will soon be public.

Any thoughts about that?

Trix999




msg:493855
 10:47 am on Feb 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yes, but this is exactly the problem of many starting Search Engines. I think we can only consider Google and the Fast search engines being almost free of spammy results (and still...).

There will always be people trying to trick the search engines (and can you even blame them?). The only thing that Ilse can do is try and make their algorithm better and better. But then again, even then people will try to find tricks. Think of the startpagina.nl that fed the search results of Ilse earlier. People were just starting up their own Pagina-subpages to list their websites, and then they were guaranteed a top position in Ilse too.

But I think that the first step is made for a very own Dutch search engine. They ofcourse have a lot of work to do, but if you're looking at their success in Holland and Belgium you must admit that they are doing something right.

Damian




msg:493856
 11:41 am on Feb 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Looks to me like wiseguys (supplier of the technology) haven't changed their algo much if at all for Ilse.
Anchortext is extremely important, the good thing is it can be anchortext from your own domain.
Large sites do well for this reason...think navigation menu's on every page.

>secret for success will soon be public
It's a lot harder then it was I'm sure..the old simple templates stuffed with headings that used to work don't anymore. If you're used to operating on an international market it can't be that hard though. ;)

Is it me or do searches take considerably longer since this the change?

>if you're looking at their success in Holland and Belgium you must admit that they are doing something right.

I respectfully disagree. Have you seen their Alexa stats [alexa.com] over the past year? IMO they were just lucky to be one of the first and won't be around for that much longer as a major player in the Dutch search market. They can't even remotely compete with the larger international companies like Google and Fast...why would anybody be searching with ilse.nl one or two years from now.


<added> That Alexa link doesn't work from here..strange..the address is [alexa.com...]
but you need to copy it and past it in your browser </added>

HitProf




msg:493857
 2:56 pm on Feb 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nope, that link won't work either.

(q=ilse is missing in Damian's link)

Try: http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=ilse&p=Det_W_t_40_L1&url=http://www.ilse.nl/

(Copy and paste and edit out spaces if neccessary.)

edited by HitProf to make it work

vitaplease




msg:493858
 3:27 pm on Feb 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>Seeing lots of spammy keyword1-keyword2.coms at the top of the listings

Agree. In a way a bit similar to Alltheweb in that sense.

Boy is this search engine slow.

It seems to prefer to show the index page, rather than a deeper page of the same site.

I resubmitted some pages yesterday, but unlike the previous Ilse, they do not show up with the newest version today.

ikke1




msg:493859
 8:54 pm on Feb 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I do have the idea that the new search engine still preffers some links that are listed on the daughterpages from pagina.nl.

The usage of subdomains, keywords in title and in text seem to have effect. Does anyone notice other relevant aspects?

About the submitting page, in first Ilse claimed that submitting pages would no longer be available as the Wiseguys-bot would find the pages themselves.

I do have another question: in which way do they estimate how frequently a webpage does updates it pages? I could run a date-script or an image randomizer does this count?

Maarten

misja




msg:493860
 1:06 pm on Feb 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

I do have another question: in which way do they estimate how frequently a webpage does updates it pages? I could run a date-script or an image randomizer does this count?

One thing they look at is the Last-Modified field in the HTTP header. If the last-modified date is available it is displayed after the title.

But I'm unable to find recently indexed pages anyway - the indexed pages from big sites like volkskrant/telegraaf/nu.nl are all from december 17.

Remco




msg:493861
 2:39 pm on Feb 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

The keyword list also shows the top 25 sites with the most links to them and the relevant score.

[ilsemedia.nl...]

Damian




msg:493862
 3:53 pm on Feb 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nice find Remco. Roughly translated bit from that page:

"Popularity is measured by the number of incoming links and their 'strength' . Links from the same domain for example have less strength then links from seperate domains"

Also interesting to note sites have a 'score'. (tempting to call it PageRank eh?)

It may be interesting to compare Ilse's list with Google's pagerank for the same sites to determine what the differences are regarding 'score' calculations.
There are a lot of differences between this top 25 list and the pagerank overview of Dutch sites [voelspriet.nl] at voelspriet.nl.

Would Ilse have the budget to pay for PageRank-like calculations (calculating 'all relations' between all sites in the database) , and if they had...would they spend it on this? Guess the difference is outgoing links do not lower the Ilse 'score' as PageRank does.

vitaplease




msg:493863
 4:33 pm on Feb 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Both lists do not mention .com dutch sites.

I mailed Voelspriet that they should include those.

I also wonder if Google.nl and adobe.nl should be included as "Dutch" sites.
(not included in this overview: [webmasterworld.com...] )

Elsevier.nl is actually mentioning its top pageranking on its homepage!
(Voelspriet's Pagerank next updates...)

BTW, elsevier.nl and elsevier.com are considered Mirrors;
[stanford.edu...]
handout 34.
It could be that their respective Pageranks are merged?

ikbenhet1




msg:493864
 5:03 pm on Feb 20, 2003 (gmt 0)


I just did a search for "free thisowrddoesnotexist1234" and it returns results for "free".

Not so good if you looking for something specific.

Also i think that they are banning sites by hand and not by bot, because some of my redirect sites are removed, but they forgot 1 which is #1.
Surely an automated bot won't skip any ordinary site in the ban process.

Damian




msg:493865
 5:54 pm on Feb 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Pst.. Misja, welcome to webmasterworld!
Nice to see more people here with an interest in Dutch search engines.

mediafact




msg:493866
 8:41 am on Feb 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ilse sucks because:

1. the search engine is unacceptable slow;
2. sites that were submitted (and accepted in the past) are not listed anymore;
3. keyword spammers are on top of the list again.

How long will it take before MSN (and others) will pass Ilse on the Dutch market?

Meier




msg:493867
 8:12 pm on Mar 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ilse is nearly dead (from a dutch member) - use Google

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