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European Search Engines Forum

    
Dutch SEO's
Trying to get in toch with other Dutch SEO's...
pardo




msg:496417
 9:15 am on Oct 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm relatively new to the SEO-business and just wondered if specific Dutch SEO-resources exists (dutch forums, mailing-lists, case studies).

I also think sharing knowledge / cooperation or making SERP-analysis together can be 'very handy' and time-saving for specific Dutch Search Engines and/or topics.

What's your opinion?

 

heini




msg:496418
 9:25 am on Oct 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hello Pardo, welcome to WebmasterWorld!

In fact we have quite a few leading dutch SEOs right here on board. I think this is a very good place to exchange info on all aspects of specific dutch search engine marketing as well as general aspects.

Just fire away!

At the top of the screen you find the site search, which will give you a head start to many threads here dealing with dutch engines. In those threads you will also find members from Holland.

Damian




msg:496419
 9:37 am on Oct 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi Pardo,

I'm Dutch too. Good to see more Dutch seo's here at webmasterworld.

Anything in particular you'd like to discuss?
I recommend reading these threads if you haven't yet:

Netherlands 1 [webmasterworld.com]
and
Netherlands 2 [webmasterworld.com]

I'm not aware of any Dutch seo sites which can compare to this place..you'll probably find this place to be the best seo resource for us Dutch people ;)

HitProf




msg:496420
 10:23 am on Oct 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Welcome on board, pardo.

This forum has lots of info on the Dutch engines.

I've been thinking of a Dutch gathering too, I was very disappointed when the Amsterdam Conference was cancelled :(

vitaplease




msg:496421
 10:41 am on Oct 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

Goeden middag Pardo,

I'm not an SEO, I only promote my own site ;)

Feel free to ask and suggest anything considering the Dutch market.

pardo




msg:496422
 11:00 am on Oct 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

hi all,

thankx for these quick responses. does everybody suffers from the internet collapse these days and has lots of time to spend on this forum ;)

i'm just curious how many people are involved in this area in Holland. Are we talking about 25 specialized companies with 200 SEO's? Or what?

I think Dutch SEO's are in constant need for:

facts & fugures for the specific Dutch market:
SE top 5, trends, changing algo's, (new) directories, ineternet penetration the netherlands, case-studies etc.

Dutch SEO's can give this information from their clients logfiles as i read in some posts. The more info is shared, the better the data will give insight information.

I intend to have some analysis on SERP's for getting to learn the most out og Google for example - by far the most used SE. These analyses are very time consuming and it could be an idea to have such an investigation with more guys or girls?

Or is the competition between people / agencies (too)high that no-one will work together?

My point-of-view to this subject: i work in a webdesign/webdevelopment agency on information architecture and webmarketing/promotion issues. So SEO for me is only 1 (but by far the strongest) point from the online marketing mix.

pardo




msg:496423
 9:18 pm on Oct 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

oops, didn't say anything wrong? so silent here...

which software do u use for ranking measurement and linkpopularity/analysis and are there specific Dutch versions or versions that include Dutch SE's and directories?

Rumbas




msg:496424
 9:48 am on Oct 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi pardo.

For answers to some of your questions, try using the Site Search [searchengineworld.com] at the top of the page. You'll find a lot of good stuff there.

The Dutch guys are busy working on their sites ;)

Remco




msg:496425
 10:43 am on Oct 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

I would say 5 specialised companies and many webdesign companies and site owners who also do it.

ikbenhet1




msg:496426
 10:59 am on Oct 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hallo,

I'm a Dutch SEO. You can ask/suggest me too.

Black Knight




msg:496427
 11:14 am on Oct 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Fantomaster is (arguably) the best known Dutch SEO, having been a major player for longer than forums like these have existed ... sheesh I feel old. :)

drako




msg:496428
 7:22 pm on Oct 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi all dutch SEO-masters!

I don't dare to call myself a dutch SEO Master
but I'm learning everyday...

I thought Ilse was a dead SE after they got together with the startpagina.nl daughter. If you're not in one of them
you can just forget it.... Or not? Is it me or is Ilse one
of the must terrible searchengines on this planet?
And what about Vindex? Does anyone of you gets any traffic from them?

onSpot




msg:496429
 11:24 am on Oct 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

Fantomaster is not a Dutch guy. Originally he is from Germany, but his company is in Belgium. Sorry for bursting the bubble....

pardo




msg:496430
 8:28 am on Oct 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

How about the employability at the Dutch companies that provide SEO nowadays? Are there jobs around, i.e. are there clients that understand the need of optimized websites just in days of economic fall-back?

And what 'disciplines' do these Dutch (or other countries) companies offer besides SEO. IMO this is only one element of the online marketing mix. What about sponsoring, paid advertsiing, media buying, e-mailmarketing, sweepstakes, contests e.g.?

Ambiorix




msg:496431
 1:25 pm on Nov 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

And what about a little Belgian guy who has to compete all those Dutch sites? :)

Damian




msg:496432
 2:19 pm on Nov 1, 2002 (gmt 0)


... is the competition between people / agencies (too)high that no-one will work together?

Relying on others for analysis allows for many mistakes in the analysis. You just can't be sure what somebody else is measuring and wheter or not the might have missed something.
Analysis can be very tricky..i.e..if you change the title from a page and your rank improves, who's to say it was because of the title change.

I tend to automate by writing scripts where it's too much work to do analysis by hand. The basis of analysis is knowing exactly what you are analysing in my opinion..I will only know that when analysing our own websites.

I think it's often more productive to produce new quality sites and pages then to spend the time analysing. The basic knowledge you need to produce well ranking sites is already here at webmasterworld.

I thought Ilse was a dead SE after they got together with the startpagina.nl daughter. If you're not in one of them
you can just forget it.... Or not?

To rank well in Ilse you need a startpagina listing for the page. I largely ignore Ilse these days as I usually work with sites that have many pages. For a small site I'd say Ilse is still important even though they are losing their market share rapidly.
To make things worse they are very slow at updating their database of sites that do have a pagina.nl listing....I don't think they updated in the last two months

And what about Vindex? Does anyone of you gets any traffic from them?

Virtually no traffic anymore

Are there jobs around?

I agree with Remco's estimate of about 5 specialised companies and they are all fairly small..less then 10 people working there..so there are jobs I guess..but not many.

what 'disciplines' do these Dutch (or other countries) companies offer besides SEO

There are specialised companies who do seo only..companies who do (online) marketing in general...and companies who do anything web-related...including design etc. So I guess you could find any combination of those..
European SEO's often offer seo translation services in their local language..involving local keyword research etc..

HitProf




msg:496433
 11:15 am on Nov 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hello all,

I've been very very busy these days AND been on holiday (I can recommend the Vlieland beach during a good storm, especcially when the ferries are discontinued ;-)))

I agree with the others about the small number of companies that do good SEO work. There are a lot more, but I think most deliver crap.

Remember the major change in Ilse a year ago: most companies cried that Ilse had lost 50% of their traffic. In fact, they lost 50% of their hits, which is quite a different thing.

I've had bad experiences recently with a company that started offering SEO-services after laying their hands on some pieces of documentation I had written. The've copied the described 'system' and now present themselves as experienced SEO's.

Not too happy to share anything too specific anymore, you might understand.

Remco




msg:496434
 12:33 pm on Nov 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

"Remember the major change in Ilse a year ago: most companies cried that Ilse had lost 50% of their traffic. In fact, they lost 50% of their hits, which is quite a different thing."

This could be a good thing, as the people at Ilse probably had to search less for what they were looking for. But how reliable are your sources and what about the update! I agree with Damian that there has not been a update for 2 months! This really is a bad thing and makes the searches not up to date. What about all those christmas sites that are created now, will they be found in the summer?

pardo




msg:496435
 12:34 pm on Nov 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

hitprof,

You're absolutely right about the 'sharing information' thing, certainly when you have been 'besodemieterd'.

Starting generally: which software do you work with for link popularity, ranking clients positions e.g.?

Heard some tools will harm Google?

I tried PWQ soft's Link Popularity Analysis and seems interesting for me? But what happens when Google's sees this for automatic requsting their database.

second question about a major dutch seo, they also appear with an article in a dutch developer magazine. They say that they usually uses industry stealth cloacking to get better results for their clients. i did examine some sites of them and indeed see alot of websites looking like their clients but with the only intend to get traffic to their customers main domain. is this spam or what? and how will this influence the original website of the client. Even in their own website source code there are links to non-related topics? Built in frames while they say: never build in frames?

pretty strange to me?

ps: does the storm of last weekend hurt your websites ;-) or did you ran away to Vlieland for the stormy Google dance?

pardo




msg:496436
 12:43 pm on Nov 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

remco,

I think the big bucks wil make Ilse 'out of the job' soon. Focus on their own interest (read: money) by getting the startpagina-daughters (with commercial features) as the main issue for getting result in Ilse they lost their independant view, which is need for the user to get relevant results. I don't use it for around a year and a half or something.

Looking at logfiles/stats of our clients i have to deeply crawl to get an Ilse referrer. That seems to say enough...

the word by mouth that makes Google big did the reverse thing at Ilse...

HitProf




msg:496437
 2:09 pm on Nov 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Remco:
But how reliable are your sources and what about the update!
I wasn't referring to Ilse's quality ;-) This happened a week after the update and the visitors didn't run away THAT fast.

Pardo:
which software do you work with for link popularity, ranking clients positions e.g.?
We've tried everything on the net and are building our own tools right now. TopDog used to be my favorite.

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