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European Search Engines Forum

PPC scene in Europe.
Overture and Espotting fighting it out.

 5:13 pm on Jan 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Heini reports here [webmasterworld.com] that Overture is entering Germany, France and UK through a partnership with regional AOL's.
A while ago we reported [webmasterworld.com] that Espotting was entering UK, Ireland, Germany, Spain and Italy through regional Yahoo's.

So far PPC results are shown in the following countries by either Overture or Espotting:


- The major languages in Europe!

Looking a bit closer at the individual partnerships reveal that Overture could be a bit behind in the race:

OT - AOL, Excite, T-online, Altavista
ES - Fireball, Lycos, Hotbot, Yahoo

OT - Altavista, Freeserve, AskJeeves, AOL
ES - Yahoo, AskJeeves, ukPlus, Lycos, Hotbot

ES - Lycos, Altavista, Hotbot, Netscape, Yahoo

OT - YupiMSN
ES - Yahoo

OT - ?
ES - Yahoo


We also have Kanoodle influencing Lycos a few places, but where is the next market where PPC haven't made it's entrance?


Here a few search engines have experimented with add/text placements, but nothing like regular PPc results, yet. At lot of things are in the works for sure, but nothing official.
Mind you that the numbers for online population [webmasterworld.com] in Scandinavia is among the highest.

Another note: Germany, the UK and Italy account for half the total European Internet population, so it would be natural for the PPC providers to start rolling their business out in these countries first. BUT it will be interesting to see who enters the Nordic area first?

See also the great thread 'Targeting Europe - do I have to pay?' [webmasterworld.com] It's a must-read about launching a euro SEO campaign.

<Added>Overture on Altavista.de [webmasterworld.com]</added>

(edited by: Rumbas at 2:42 pm (utc) on Mar. 6, 2002)



 2:20 pm on Jan 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

I wonder if there's room for other players than Overture and Espotting.
Obviously PPC outfits need to install a local branch to play a country. Take Overture on AOL France - it starts when Overture.fr is opening.

But that's expensive, and the question for those two will be: does it pay, is the market big enough.

In Germany there are two small locals doing PPC for a while - they were too early. When the market was ready for PPC the big ones moved in.

For smaller markets I see a chance for local players, filling in the gap before the big guys arrive.

That could be done in two ways: either a local portal/SE puts up a PPC scheme, or a local outfit does it.

Another country with similarly high usage figures as Scandinavia is the Netherlands. Ilse is still the #1 here - a likely candidate for doing a self-developed PPC scheme?


 9:53 am on Jan 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

OT - Altavista, Freeserve, Excite, AskJeeves, AOL

Excite UK is dead.


 10:47 am on Jan 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

>OT - ?
>ES - Yahoo

I've spoken with Tim Cadogan, Overture's Senior Director of Search Products, last november in Dallas. He said, Overture is not interested in the italian market in 2002. Maybe next year (or maybe next autumn, because of eSpotting:-).

The partnership eSpotting - Yahoo Italy will start april the 1st.


 1:26 pm on Jan 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thanks :)
Thread has been updated.


 3:36 pm on Jan 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Overture is not interested in the italian market in 2002

See - that's what I meant. Italy is one of the huge European online markets, growing fast. And still: not interested. So what about Scandinavian countries, Netherlands - those are even smaller markets.


 4:20 pm on Jan 31, 2002 (gmt 0)


Ilse-Netherlands-started pay per impression in nov/dec.
However they messed up and closed in december.
Should restart in februari they claim.


 11:14 pm on Jan 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yep, they had a scheme similar to adwords up. Whatever happened to that one?
It was however not PPC but CPM.
Any idea what Ilse is going to do with it now?


 9:10 pm on Feb 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

Rumour has it german ISP freenet [freenet.de], currently with a inktomi/dinoonline powered websearch will have Overture listings soon.


 12:59 am on Feb 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

>room for other players than Overture and Espotting

German PPC pioneer Qualigo, up to now with only very limited reach has now hit it's first good deal. Bluewin, leading swiss portal will soon display qualigo listings.
Bluewin has just switched from AV to Inktomi.


 3:05 pm on Feb 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Qualigo...has now hit it's first good deal. Bluewin, leading swiss portal will soon display qualigo listings.

And they say [qualigo.de] they have T-Online-Switzerland on board...I really donīt understand that, because also on T-Online-CH appears the Link to the deal between T-Online and Overture above the SERPS.


 11:00 pm on Feb 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Heini, I don't care what Ilse is going to do with that. As long as they deliver visitors in the amount that they do, I won't complain.


 11:29 pm on Feb 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Ilse .. As long as they deliver visitors in the amount that they do, I won't complain.

All the better if you don't have to pay for it ;)

Still - would be interested to hear what went wrong and what will come of it. Seems somewhat logical for a strong, nearly dominant player in a limited market to set up their own independent PPC scheme.

>qualigo - T-Online-Switzerland on board

oLeon, I can't really believe that one either. On comparing results with qualigo SERPs I couldn't find similarities.


 1:06 am on Feb 6, 2002 (gmt 0)

OK back to the leading actors. Fact is, as Rumbas said, in Europe Overture for the first time is confronted with a real competition.
Unlike the US, where Findwhat and Kanoodle are 3rd league at best, Espotting took the lead in Europe.
They even stole the Yahoo deal from Overture, who of course were elected for Yahoo.com.

Lets try to put some numbers to the issue:

Taking December figures from Jupitermmxi [jupitermmxi.com] and doing some rough calculations, it appears Espotting's reach outgrows Overture's reach by 3/2. Portals with espotting listings had more than 28 Mill. unique visitors in December, Overture's partners some 21 Mill.

How could this happen to Overture? Perhaps it's just the advantage Espotting had coming from Europe, namely the UK. The company was focused on the European markets from the beginning, not even trying to attack Overture, then Goto, in the US market.
Another point in question is, if Espotting goes the classical dot-com route of growing first, trying to get profitable later.
Overture at least suggests [searchenginewatch.com] Espotting was able to beat them on the Yahoo Europe deals by offering dumping contracts.

One thing is for sure: the european market is a whole new story for Overture: It's not one homogeneous area, but a whole bunch of completely different markets.

So what will come next?
Is there anythng in the US PPC scene that might lead to serious predictions on the evolving European PPC scene?
Will we see a new diversity of local PPC engines? Will Overture just blow the competition out of the boat? Does Espotting have the means to close the European door to Overture?


 11:54 pm on Feb 15, 2002 (gmt 0)

hi to all in the forum,

the first time i post here into the forum. overture will in germany also shows up in Altavista and new in MSN Germany.


 12:19 am on Feb 16, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi chrisiv - a late night welcome to the board to you!

Nice post, thanks. First of all you are right, we completely lost AV.de in this thread - had them wayback in October when this Overture going to Germany started to get discussed here as first candidate.
But somehow AV is flying too low for the radar these days...

About MSN: anything definite?


 11:40 am on Feb 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi Pay per Clicks people!!!

Do you know when Overture will start to promote in Germany ? , it's about a year they have on their site the form to request information about it but still nothing and, with my great pleasure Espotting is going really well in the German market!!!

Regarding the Italian market I think we are a little behind other countries in Europe in Internet marketing , that could be the reason because Overture is not interested in advertising in Italy for 2002.



 1:27 pm on Feb 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

Good question, wolfy. Don't what's holding them back. Might be on their end, but could also be on their partners end.

So you are doing fine with espotting? The Lycos crowd goes for sponsored listings?


 2:11 pm on Feb 18, 2002 (gmt 0)

So you are doing fine with espotting?

<Yes both on the German and American one.>

The Lycos crowd goes for sponsored listings?

< Mostly Yahoo crowd goes for sponsored listings, I have just started and seems not so expensive at the moment, I found some referrers even from Ask.co.uk it's a sort of MetaPayperClick engine isn't it?>



 2:38 pm on Feb 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

Watch out Espotting and Overture - there's a new Goorilla in town
You can target more than 250 countries and/or speakers of 5 major languages (English, French, German, Italian, and Spanish).



 2:13 pm on Feb 20, 2002 (gmt 0)

You're right Heini,
Google has always a surprise in its hat!!!



 10:14 am on Feb 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

A few numbers:
since espotting is available on Yahoo.de, we have an increase in clicks so now yahoo-referrer are about 56% of all espotting-referrer.
Itīs not that expensiv as OV.com in the US-market, Iīd say itīs worth to try it.
Fact is that the sponsored links on Yahoo are shown within all resultpages i.e. also above the directory-listings. Thatīs a very good feature because you canīt reach this with your google-listings.

Overture.de didnīt announced the deal with AV.de yet, I donīt know why. But itīs the case that their results should be shown on AV.de
OV.de starting next week on t-online, and as I posted in another thread it should only be the first bids as sponsored links. (yes, t-online is a big partner!)


 6:32 pm on Feb 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

Zdnet wakes up and smells the story [zdnet.com.com] (only a month late).


 7:35 am on Mar 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

AV shows 6 results from overture.
3 above and 3 under the original AV-Listings.
They are marked as "Sposored Links" and "Weitere Links".
Try a search with "reisen".
Contract between AC and OV is for 1 year.


 1:34 pm on Mar 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yes that's right!!!
AV displays results from Overture.de !!!
It was a surprise for me, thanks Klaus really cool information!!!



 3:51 pm on Mar 17, 2002 (gmt 0)

Also check out,
Spotlight Espotting [webmasterworld.com]


 11:38 pm on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Scandinavia is on the hit list for the future, according to Sebastian Bishop - owner of Espotting.

Europemedia [europemedia.net]


 11:58 pm on Mar 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yes - also the interview gives further confirmation of Espotting extending the Lycos partnership to Italy and Spain.


 7:49 pm on May 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

Espotting have set up an email address for anybody wanting to know when they launch in Spain:


 7:06 am on May 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Seems they are starting to "colonize" southern Europe :)

well done Espotting

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