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The Open Directory
Is DMOZ really the "OPEN DIRECTORY"
Juzzi




msg:481994
 5:56 pm on Jan 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

I am convinced that the travel section of DMOZ is closed.

I have been trying for months to get many of my travel websites into dmoz. Out of about 50 submissions I managed to get 2 listed.

The first one - they completely stripped my title and description.

The second one - was published exactly the way I submitted it, which brought lots of referrals.

Today I noticed that my second listing has now been COMPLETELY removed for NO REASON.

They have booted me and left a whole lot of inferior quality websites alone.

JUST MAKES NO SENSE!!!!

What can I do?? I have sent emails to staff@.., I have contacted various editors -- not so much as even a reply. It's actually a disgrace - what started out as something great has become TOO CORRUPT!!

Lets face it dmoz is a great resource but slowly its being ruined by SELF INTEREST.

HOW CAN WE STOP THIS FROM HAPPENING?? WHO WILL LISTEN??

 

Brett_Tabke




msg:481995
 6:09 pm on Jan 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I remember last summer a guy went on a huge rant in 4 different forums, usenet, and one mailling list about why his site wasn't listed. We finally got the guys url out of him. This site, that he claimed was "his crowning achievement in his web career" was an affiliate site not fit for bird cage liner. He was absolutely convinced that his site belonged in the ODP.

The travel categories at the ODP are booked up and overflowing. Sorting out the thousands upon thousands of junk travel sites from the gems would be a tall order and obviously a thankless one.

starec




msg:481996
 6:25 pm on Jan 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

DMOZ has its problems (like hundreds of "dead" categories without editor), but it is kind of understandable given the volunteer manpower behind it.

It is in their own interest to list high-quality sites.
Contact some of the higher-level editors, be brief and polite in explaining your problem. If your site is good, it will eventually be listed. Just be patient and persistent.

You can also try to get listed in some other, related category if you suspect the editor is trying to keep out competition.

Juzzi




msg:481997
 9:30 pm on Jan 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - but I aint no fool.

My sites have been accepted by Yahoo, looksmart and have received high recommendations from lycos.co.uk.

None of them are affilliate sites and all of them have unique content.

NFFC




msg:481998
 9:50 pm on Jan 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

With respect Juzzi, Yahoo, looksmart and lycos.co.uk are not the best judges of "quality".

If your site worked without JS it may help with ODP.

satanclaus




msg:481999
 10:41 pm on Jan 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have a high success rate with DMOZ and have successfully listed over 50 sites into the directory.

I've found that the more cluttered categories just take time and persistance. Continue building and improving your site, keep track of your submissions and pound away until you get them in. Double check the category you're submitting to as well. It may seem to you that it fits your site just right but the editor may disagree.(speaking from personal experience)

europeforvisitors




msg:482000
 11:18 pm on Jan 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

I've been having trouble getting ODP listings, too, despite the fact that I *know* my site is "good enough"--if only because its home page and Venice page were listed in the ODP when I was an About.com "guide," and the site has some 2,500 pages of editorial content that has been favorably reviewed or mentioned by Time International, USA Today, Good Housekeeping, the Montreal Gazette, PC Magazine, PC World, and--more recently--Chris Sherman's Nov. 21 SearchDay newsletter from Search Engine Watch, which described my relaunched site as "an outstanding resource for researching travel in Europe, with both original content and an extensive directory of hand-selected links."

Yahoo changed my URLs in three weeks (I just used Yahoo's update form); nearly three months later, I'm still waiting for a response from the ODP.

The statement earlier in this thread that the travel categories are "booked up and overflowing" and "sorting out the thousands upon thousands of junk travel sites from the gems would be a tall order and obviously a thankless one" is a disturbing because it suggests that the ODP has basically shut the door on new submissions--and maybe on updates, too, to judge from my experience. A static directory is a dead directory, and the ODP will have outlived its usefulness if its editors take the position that "enough is enough"--or if they fail to update URLs where appropriate and cull sites that no longer exist.

I've also noticed that some of the descriptions in the ODP's travel categories read as if they'd been written by the submitters' PR agencies. The description of one major booking site begins: "Provides customers with access to the broadest choice of air fares and some of the lowest prices for flights, hotels, and rental cars." When I first read that, I almost wondered if the ODP had begun taking paid listings. :-)

I realize that quality is hard to maintain when categories lack editors. But the ODP seems to be lax about processing editor applications, too. I submitted an application for one of the vacant European travel categories quite a while ago (I think it was back in November), got the e-mail confirmation message, and never heard anything after that.

dwedeking




msg:482001
 12:18 am on Jan 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

It really depends on the category and the editor. I've had sites in the submission line up for months and others I've had others OK'd overnight. As the only difference is subject matter (different clients) I am assuming that's it's just how much time the individual can/will devote to their category.

paynt




msg:482002
 12:49 am on Jan 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

As an editor and submitter I can speak from personal experience. There is much to be said both for and against ODP. Weíve gone around this block many times and will most likely continue to do so.

ODP is like a very envious club to be listed in. You donít pay for the honor but the benefits, once granted, are tremendous. The more competitive the category Ė the tougher the road. I was editing every day for nearly a year and then real life started knocking and I had to cut back. What I did was drop all the business categories I couldnít keep up with and kept the less stressful, more hobby site categories, museums and my region. Not every editor is willing to do that, if time gets away and they canít keep up.

I took yesterday off to edit and spent well over 8 hours to edit about 100 sites. When I sit back and think of all the folks I may have helped because of my efforts I feel good. Thatís my reward. A year ago they were business marketing companies and now they are hobby farms with coop cams.

My business site has a regional listing but I canít get into the main category yet because there are over 3500 unreviewed for that category. I tell you if I ever do get listed I think Iíll open a bottle of bubbly and do the ODP jig.

Ask any editor why they do it and youíll get another story. There is no solution to the problem but to jump in and help. Start with your region. Help build your own community. Get to know the real workings of ODP, the good and the bad. After the chaos and stress of the business categories I feel really good with my region and with the hobby sites and museums. It is certainly nice not to get those, ďWhy havenít you listed my site?Ē letters!

Does this post help you or anyone else for that matter? Probably not. Why post then? Maybe to pat on the back all the volunteers who do put in hours at ODP that they donít need to.

Juzzi




msg:482003
 11:11 am on Jan 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

Any Comments on why one of my sites was removed for NO REASON.

Left in the category that I was in, are a bunch of affiliate sites with no content.

My websites mainly sell hotel accommodation and tours, but while coming up with the concept I decided that if I back this up with COMPREHENSIVE city guide info then I will stand out from the rest - and I do.

So instead of one of my websites taking a relatively short period to put toegether, it now takes a great deal of time for research and editorials( all of which have no commercial value but rather helpful info for those wanting to visit a particular destination.)

It was my beleief that if I went this route - I would stand a far greater chance of getting my sites listed in most of the directories.

jordancpeterson




msg:482004
 6:51 pm on Jan 5, 2002 (gmt 0)

What paynt said was really, really good! As an editor I try to help as much as I can. Last night I edited from 9 pm to 2 am in the morning, plus several other times yesterday when I got a chance. This morning Iím up by 9 am and ready to go at it again (until I got distracted replying here).

The next thing Iím going to talk about may be considered a commercial so either go take a break or brace your self for the ride.

Now how do I start hmmmmmÖÖÖÖ..

Ok, here goes!

More editors would solve this problem of high number of sites that are waiting to be reviewed. More editors that are truly interested in the directory as a whole, that is, not just interested in their own sites. Now with that off my chest let me say this. I do not recommend you becoming an editor of a category you are affiliated with in anyway. Why you ask? I have found that if someone applies for a category they are affiliated with they tend to land themselves in trouble real fast. But if theyíre an editor for a while, work hard at it and learn what is correct way to do things and what is not theyíll be less apt to get in trouble later on down the road. Once you have become an editor and have learned the ropes then you could move up and on into other categories (including ones that you may be affiliated with). Just donít become an editor to just help your own sites out. It just doesnít help the directory as a whole.

So if you are interested in becoming an editor and are not concerned in self-promotion but are seriously interested in helping out the directory then you may be a likely candidate to be an editor. Iíll help anyone willing to become one. My credentials are these. I have never been rejected for a category, not when I first became an editor or since Iíve been one (so I have a pretty good idea what is required, at least at my level). I have mentored five other people through the start of the process, and then something happened with each of them and they didnít finish. Three of them had just a general interest in becoming an editor for no real reason (at least this is where we stood as of the last correspondence). All three of them gave up interest before they ever filled out the application. Another one had an interest in a category that had their site already listed in (it was a big category 100 plus sites). I suggested that he apply for a category that he wouldnít be affiliated with to start off and then once he had some experience he could apply for the bigger category. He said he would try to get the time to do it but nothing ever happened (probably lost interest). The last person I worked with was unique but still didnít make it. He first clamed he wanted to become an editor of a category that was related to a hobby of his (seemed real enthusiastic). Ended up he actually was interested in getting deeplinks of his companies sites listed (if he would of became an editor and did what he was planning to do he would of been caught real fast and all their sites would have been removed and a ton of other things he wasnít interested in happening would of happened.

I have said all this to show that Iíll work with anybody that would like to become an editor. The problem is in the long run both of us had wasted a lot of time (not all of it was wasted, I made friends). Anyone wanting to become an editor has to understand it is work, hard work, work that a lot of people arenít up to. [URL removed]

And for those of you that stuck this out and read my boring post and are not interested in becoming an editor or you are (either way) send me an e-mail with the URLís you are having trouble with, date of submission, category submitted to and anything else you may know about them and Iíll see if I can help you out (I donít guarantee anything happening but I will look in to it).

backus




msg:482005
 3:21 pm on Jan 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

As far as I'm concerned, if my mate Paul can be an editor for ODP, then the whole system is a waste of time. Oh and by the way, he is!

dalguard




msg:482006
 6:23 pm on Jan 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

The Travel area is currently undergoing a lot of reorganization. If your site was a valid site, it probably "disappeared" because it has been moved from Recreation/Travel to an appropriate Regional category and is now sitting there waiting to be reviewed again or is actually listed there but you haven't looked in Regional.

It's also possible that your second listing was deemed to be not necessary based on your first listing.

Thirdly, if your second listing was listed exactly the way you wrote it, then it was probably listed by an editor who wasn't doing a very good job and the listing has been subsequently re-evaluated. It isn't ODP's intent to publish advertisements for websites but rather to write descriptions that are helpful to the end user.

phiznlil




msg:482007
 4:28 pm on Jan 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>As far as I'm concerned, if my mate Paul can be an editor for ODP, then the whole system is a waste of time. Oh and by the way, he is!<<

Now that is funny :)

nicebloke




msg:482008
 5:30 pm on Jan 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

>but slowly its being ruined by SELF INTEREST.

I'd have to agree, although I did very recently get a site in (after waiting 2 years). I also know for a fact that several of the more sought after UK categories are edited by people who are purely interested in keeping the competition out, and themselves in. It is a shame.

Juzzi




msg:482009
 5:43 pm on Jan 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

The trouble is - it doesnt matter who you write to, NOBODY ever answers

EliteWeb




msg:482010
 5:50 pm on Jan 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

<< nobody responds

Everytime I have sent e-mails to dmoz editors/staff I have gotten e-mails back. :)~

miles




msg:482011
 11:55 pm on Jan 25, 2002 (gmt 0)

I find it hard to get in even when the descriptions are good. If you really think that all of the editors are there to make it better you are mistaken. However you (those who believe the fore-mentioned) there are some who are interested. I dont ever expect that dmoz will do as well as other directories due to the nature that its editors are bogged down with hundreds and in some cases thousands of sites to review. The other directories have paid editors which is good and bad. The Good is that you will get you site looked at in a week at the most and the editors will either say yea or you need to fix ..... Now the bad you have to pay a good chunck of change to get listed/reviewed. Either way you have to take it with a grain of salt and move on. I am all for paying when I know I am going to see a return, but in the case of dmoz you have wait sometimes months for someone to say your site sucks. Its just not so with paid engines.

jordancpeterson




msg:482012
 1:07 am on Jan 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

You may all be interested to learn we just passed 1 million sites waiting to be reviewed! Yes 1 million! :o :o :o And no we are not proud of that number! :( And we only have about 8,500 active editors.

minnapple




msg:482013
 4:42 am on Jan 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

DMOZ's needs a mentor program.

When I was an editor the senior editor blasted each of my additons without an explanation.

Needless to say after dozens of reviews I resigned.

Now I will say this was about two years ago and hopefully things have changed.

angiolo




msg:482014
 7:53 am on Jan 26, 2002 (gmt 0)

DMOZ is still free and usually is not so slow.
You have the opportunity to write to editors too.
For my experience a long delay is more an exception.

I had more trouble with Looksmart: sometimes I had the impression that Looksmart editors were involved in their directory field; I had to write and complain to staff to have my description revised.

Another good point to DMOZ is that it is not so important the description you can get: it is important that you are there.

ettore




msg:482015
 6:31 am on Jan 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>I also know for a fact that several of the more sought after UK categories are edited by people who are purely interested in keeping the competition out

If you actually have some evidence about this, please do email a meta editor with full details of these issues. The lifespan of abusive editors in ODP is generally very short, and you may found yourself doing a favour both to honest webmasters and to the ODP community.

>>DMOZ's needs a mentor program.

Actually, we have several mentors programs. And yes, two years ago it was quite different :)

>>we just passed 1 million sites waiting to be reviewed! Yes 1 million!

I don't know where you got these figures, but I beg to differ. The total number of unreviewed sites is far less than that. Sure there are thousands of sites still sitting in the queue, and unfortunately, many good sites are buried in the backlog due to the great number of duplicate/improper submissions, mirrors, doorways, and every other kind of SPAM you can think of. And this is the real problem editors have to face every day.

backus




msg:482016
 3:40 pm on Jan 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

It seems that two DMOZ authorities fail to agree. What does that say about DMOZ itself?

bird




msg:482017
 5:04 pm on Jan 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

It seems that two DMOZ authorities fail to agree. What does that say about DMOZ itself?

Ever heard of democracy and freedom of speach?

Hobbyist




msg:482018
 5:06 pm on Jan 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

One thing about applications.

I spend hours writing to ensure that my application is correct, but when i just miss out one field, or my nick doesn't meet some citeria, I get a error page, and when it reloads everything is gone.. :(

Anyway I'm in Zeal now (and turning things upside down with the help of high level editors), I wonder if it's a conflict of interest to be in ODP has well..

Hobbyist




msg:482019
 5:06 pm on Jan 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

One thing about applications.

I spend hours writing to ensure that my application is correct, but when i just miss out one field, or my nick doesn't meet some citeria, I get a error page, and when it reloads everything is gone.. :(

Anyway I'm in Zeal now (and turning things upside down with the help of high level editors), I wonder if it's a conflict of interest to be in ODP has well..

diddlydazz




msg:482020
 5:44 pm on Jan 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

<---Anyway I'm in Zeal now (and turning things upside down with the help of high level editors)

Yes I noticed :)

Dazz

ettore




msg:482021
 11:45 am on Jan 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>It seems that two DMOZ authorities fail to agree.

I beg to disagree :) The number of active editors is correct.

jordancpeterson




msg:482022
 5:18 pm on Jan 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

My information was wrong. Iím sorry I didnít double-check the number of unrevieweds that I gave. I actually thought it was too high when I first saw it. The number is significantly less, but not less enough for me to be proud of. :)

So we do agree! :)

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