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Site dropped from DMOZ
Any ideas why
Semb




msg:489603
 2:52 am on Jul 21, 2005 (gmt 0)

Recently I noted that my site has disappeared from the DMOZ category it had been listed for over an year. A search for the domain in DMOZ does not give any results.
The listing was in a single subcategory and the URL was never submitted to try to get into more categories. The site is a commercial one.
The site has not been subject to any major changes in content which could justify its listing being deleted. The help information provided in the DMOZ FAQ does not give a clue since the possible reasons for deleting a listing.
Any ideas as to what might be the reason for this disappearance?

 

hutcheson




msg:489633
 5:45 pm on Jul 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

>As a matter of fact it does really matter who did something. Because it is one thing if it is someone who has no personal interest in removing sites from the directory and a totally different story if the deleting was done by someone who runs a competing site (or is close to people who do). Don't you think?

I think not.

And it is a very good thing for you that I am right and you are wrong. Because -- you could never know what any of you claim you need to know to file an abuse report. You "presume" that a certain editor did it -- I have of course not looked at this case, but I can assure you that in my experience, in cases where assailants "presume" to accuse a particular editor, they are usually wrong: in fact, often no single editor did all the work.

And knowing motivations is even trickier. Oh, sure, based on the greed and malevolence in your own heart, you may assume that no other motive could ever cause someone else to act. Or you could suppose that the mere act of giving a person ODP editing permissions also endues him with godlike omniscience, thus eliminating the necessity of considering the possibility of a mistake. You could assert your own omniscience by declaring that anything you couldn't imagine couldn't happen (and so far as I can count, you're at 2.5 for 3 here.)

But even though I see the logs you don't see, and I have access to information you don't -- I don't dare impute that kind of omniscience to myself. I have to look at the facts -- the category and the guidelines and the logs -- first. And even then I can't always tell the motives, even when I know which editor did it.

If you can ever get past this arrogant "I know all the evil that lurks in the heart, and I know which heart it lurks in" delusion of omniscience yourself, and look at the actual facts, then someone can look and see if (1) an error occurred (in which case it needs to be fixed), and if so, (2) what action needs to be taken.

See? Don't start off by looking for perps. First let's see if anything wrong was even done. If so, we want to correct it, regardless of who did it. We want it not to happen again, regardless of why it was done. And if we can accomplish that, who will have anything to complain about?

Only people who carry personal grudges, that's all.

OK then, what's the evidence?

>a number of sites, which sell their own produced widgets has disappered not only from a category, but also do not show up in DMOZ at all anymore.

OK, that's something we can look at -- just name the category and one or two of the URLs. Explain how you know they produce their own products.

>All these sites used to show up in the top 15-20 for this category in Google directory; pf the abovementioned sites in the top 15-20 of Google directory now only 2 widgetselling sites have remained in the category in question.

DUH! If you take sites out of the directory, of COURSE they won't show up in the search. Just skip that little detail: it's highly offensive to people to explain things that are so mind-numbingly obvious -- and in any case it's irrelevant: what Google does is their own business, not ours. All that we do is put sites in the directory (and, of course, take them out.) Who searches the directory, and how, is not our problem.

>Of these 2 sites one is included twice in two separate categories and the other is included twice in the same category with 2 slightly different domains.

The former may or may not be a problem, depending on the categories involved. The latter IS a problem, but could well be treated separately. (That is, just report it in the "Quality Feedback" forum, as a simple canonicalization issue. The editor would probably consider whether the second listing should be deleted, as part of the cleanup.)

>(isn't this against DMOZ guidelines?).

Not necessarily. SUBMITTERS shouldn't submit to multiple categories (with certain exceptions which editors have often described.) It depends on the circumstances.

>as a further coincidence, the editor for a category 2 levels up (with no editors for the lower levels I suppose this should be the person responsible for editing)

.... look, just don't presume, OK? If there is a pattern of abuse by one editor, the logs will show whom it is, we're not dependent on your surmises. Just omit them.

>Well I would very much like to be positive, but how could I when I see so many sites with good positions in Google directory gone and the remaining 2 - comfortably listed twice, I somehow find it rather difficult to believe in some innocent explanation.

That'a a limitation of your imagination. Here are some hints, based on things that I have seen happen OFTEN: (1) An editor misunderstood the ODP guidelines and was looking for something specific on those sites, that shouldn't have been considered a requirement. (2) Affiliate doorway hypemeisters are in the business of deceiving people -- there are so many of them, and they try so many different kinds of deceptions, that some of them fool all of us. You may have been fooled by the other sites. (3) Based on internal discussions, the sites were legitimately moved from one category to another, and haven't yet shown up in the other category.

>And here comes another difficult one. How could one follow your advice and avoid accusing an editor when an abuse report under the circumstances, no matter how diplomatically worded, would be equivalent to a finger pointed at the person in question?!?

First of all, the fact is that a simple recital of facts may not point the finger at ANYONE! The facts indicate an appropriate action; the facts may indicate that multiple editors were involved; the facts may implicate some editor other than you suspected.

But the point of the exercise is not to feed a grudge, to execute vengeance, to assassinate a character (all of whom are served adequately by vague rants in public forums.)

The point is to correct an error in the directory (which is important to me, but may not matter a rotten fig to you) and to allow your site a bit of visibility to which you think it is entitled (which is important to you, but obviously not specifically important to me, since I'd be just as happy reviewing any of millions of other sites...)

And if there is an error, it can be corrected, and so much the better for the surfers (and, not that it matters to us, perhaps even the webmasters.)

Semb




msg:489634
 8:54 pm on Jul 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, hutcheson. From your post I see what the feeling of some power and impunity does to people.
Where I live we have a saying "Give man some power to see what he's worth" ...

Of the posts here that could be attributed to DMOZ affiliated people I could sense a lot of arrogance.
Well, guys, point taken. You editors seem to be godlike creatures and the dumb webmasters should think twice before they dare to express any doubts in your motiffs. And even if they think you might be wrong they'd better shut up or else ...

victor




msg:489635
 9:22 pm on Jul 24, 2005 (gmt 0)

semb
Of what I read here I remain with the impression that any of the anonymous editors who could edit a category could dump a site just because he/she was in the mood to do so, or because the editor is in some way affiliated with a competing site, or because the webmaster of the dumped site had turned down several requests for links exchange with link farm sites the editor had some affiliation with. And such an editor would get away with this since it is highly unlikely that someone would notice this. Abuse reporting seems also rather difficult because if an editor is unknown to the affected webmasters, then they would never have the chance to know if he/she is not runing a compteting site.

Then you haven't read enough here.

I'd suggest you get up to speed with the issues, refrain from making blanket accusations of all the editors who "could" edit a category, and come back with some actual facts.

But, if you think fact-based discussion is arrogant and godlike, maybe it is time to close this thread.

g1smd




msg:489636
 1:49 am on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you file an abuse report saying that Editor X is abusive, and an inspection of the editing logs shows otherwise, then the case is closed with no further action.

If some other editor is abusing the directory, then that will continue because your report contained guesswork, supposition, and accusations -- what you should be reporting are the FACTS, what category the problem is in, and which sites appear to be affected.

The result of the investigation may show that the edits are correct, had been planned and discussed by multiple editors and appropriate notes left, or they may find abuse carried out by a different editor to the one that you thought that it was -- and then action will be taken.

Hutcheson was telling you to only includes facts in a report, not blind accusations.

hutcheson




msg:489637
 3:17 am on Jul 25, 2005 (gmt 0)

semb, is there a language barrier here? The only one arrogating God-like powers to see into people's hearts is you. The only one trying to make this into a personal excretory contest is ... you. It's absolutely ludicrous to blame someone else for trying to help you -- for trying to give information that you would find valuable if you were interested in promoting your site, instead of whining about it.

Look, if you WANT to be a victim, then that's fine. You asked for it, you worked hard for it, you deserve it. Whine, complain, assassinate characters -- you're good at it, but, frankly, man, it doesn't pay well unless you've got lots of money and go into politics.

But if you ever want to change your strategy, if you ever want to consider promoting a website, if you ever decide that possibly helping yourself is all right even if it accidentally helps someone else also --

well, then, at that point, you know exactly what to do, and how to do it. And you'll know it because of what half-a-dozen ODP editors told you.

And I claim that dozens of people will be willing to listen and check the facts behind the problem you describe. But you don't have to take anyone's word for it. Go see what happens to the "public" quality feedback in that open forum.

Now YOU'RE empowered. And you're welcome, but we'd have helped a polite person just as much.

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