| 1:12 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
What are your views on future of directories?
I plan to start a directory, can someone guide me to some useful tips.
| 2:32 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I hope directories will do well in the future. I just finished building one back in Feb. and am now trying to get links pointing to it.
The long wait that Google puts on new websites is a killer!
| 4:12 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Can u Pvt message me where I could get free links to my directory?
| 7:13 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
no reflection on you or your directory at all. However, I wanted to say that I just ran into a huge scam. A directory with over 40,000 backlinks in yahoo. The directory operator is using the accumulated pagerank to divert to cam and *orn pages. Most of the people linking to this site are mom and pop and health oriented/medical oriented sites. If they only knew. Tried to post this as a separate thread, it got flagged. This is why I am VERY careful about directory submissions.
| 7:21 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Did you send a spam report to Yahoo?
| 8:20 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
No, didn't send a spam report to google or yahoo. Not sure if there would be a point since, technically, he hasn't done anything wrong.
However...of the 43,500 yahoo backlinks, the one at the top has the title "safe links for children". I did email them at this one site to let them know. There are probably hundreds and hundreds that should be emailed because there are universities, adoption agencies, all kinds of good sites linking to this guy.
This is why I am leery of any directory that asks for a reciprocal. I'll pay to get in, but I will not link back.
| 8:24 pm on Mar 20, 2005 (gmt 0)|
My views on directories is there are 2 hundred odd general uk ones all offering the same stuff.
Most are set up to make money from adsense, or 'just another PPC one' when people will use Google anyway.
There are 4 types of directory:
PPC set up
Adsense set up
Affiliate set up
and many use feeds supplied from either well known established providers that have the market sewn up already. Apart from the above money making methods (above) many will not become household names, due to various reasons like committment and cashflow.
Keeping a site on the web is easy, as you just need to cover ISP and hosting costs. Beyond that, depending on size, and niche it's a different ball game where advertising fees must be met, staff costs etc etc
Of course there's the eternal hope of one day 'making it' and dreams of floating on the stock market, being bought out in some partnership deal or just making millions from the 12 month listings each year alone.
Well, it ain't going to happen unless the idea is very sound and a financial backer is in place. Even then the niche has to be highly popular and can be expanded into other areas without threatening the original niche idea. 1 directory went 'against the grain' and fortunately survived, but only as it had massive cash flow and was established in it's niche area, but most can't get away with that!
So as before mentioned, the market is sewn up already by the main engines, who are also general directory services too. Why bother to compete when you're going to lose - it's pointless, and the ones that hang on to this mentality will spend thousands and lose.
Why do you think businesses sell of parts of main businesses, or close down retail stores etc... Maybe they realise they would lose more money if they continued, and these companies have multi million pound budgets too. It's just bad business to take losses, especially where you have so much competition about.
These days for a directory to survive must be:
or else you'd better have deep pockets. Even if you have an original idea, you still need to convince a financial backer to invest - and that's very difficult indeed. Yes, we could all 'add sites and do admin' but to make real money, it needs promotion and it ain't going to happen overnight guys.
Businesses won't just hand over the cash, they want proof or a reasonable chance that they get their investment back before it goes pear shaped. It just isn't that easy. Apart from investors, we have high St banks, who won't touch you with a 10 foot barge pole, for the same reasons as the business investors.
In any case, why on earth would 200 uk ones wish to set themselves up for failure against the maybe 7 majors, when a thought out plan (niche) could get them ownership of that niche. Now, I do think the majors have problem areas that they just don't fix, but then again they don't need to as everyone goes to them anyway. You see what I'm saying. 200 + databases out there sharing the same traffic, back and forth, back and forth, and what for? A few adsense clicks! Waste of time. Personally, I feel it's so owners can say "I own a business" I'd rather keep my £10k and trade that over an ego boost any day.
Basically the future is in the display of information, and making life easier. If you can do that to perfection - you can write your own cheques.
100'000 directories can have a piece of the pie, you just got to get rid of one or two problems first, or be satisfied with that crumb of pastry, and you better be as it's all you're going to get.
The majors are too powerful. And that's that. How many web businesses failed last year? I'm not sure but it's a lot.
| 7:31 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|There are 4 types of directory: |
PPC set up
Adsense set up
Affiliate set up
what's the 4th type?
| 7:32 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|200 + databases out there sharing the same traffic, back and forth, back and forth, and what for? A few adsense clicks! Waste of time. Personally, I feel it's so owners can say "I own a business" I'd rather keep my £10k and trade that over an ego boost any day. |
where you get these Delusions of Grandeur from?
| 7:51 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
*Personally, I feel it's so owners can say "I own a business" I'd rather keep my £10k and trade that over an ego boost any day.*
That apart, there is little I can fault in that post...
| 7:55 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
you sound quite knowledgeable on directories
so would you advise not to enter the field in todays climate due to high chance of failure or do you think there are still ways to succeed
| 8:26 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Why bother to compete when you're going to lose - it's pointless, and the ones that hang on to this mentality will spend thousands and lose. |
A directory script costs as little as free. You can get a fully licensed directory script for fifty bucks or even less if you want to haggle.
Bodyguard, most people setting up a directory have no dreams of becoming big or going through an IPO. Why not run PPC ads and AFF stuff or throw a feed in there? Is this activity somehow bad?
Set up a Directory Week
Anybody can set up a directory. I encourage everybody who reads this to go out, download a free directory script and set up a new directory within this week. I declare the week of March 20th to be "Set up a Directory Week!"
What we need is more and more directories. I am dead serious.
| 8:37 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|I declare the week of March 20th to be "Set up a Directory Week!" |
I made 10 new ones last week does that still count ;)
| 8:39 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
you part timer
you only worked 1 day then last week
shame on you spending time enjoying the sun and seeing the outside
where is your commitment
| 9:09 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
4th directory type:
'Built for partnership'
| 9:28 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
not sure what you mean or did i miss something in an earlier post
partnership with who
sorry to be a bit thick
| 10:26 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
*Is this activity somehow bad?*
Not bad MB, but probably worthless...
| 10:49 pm on Mar 21, 2005 (gmt 0)|
So does that mean if it's not making money it's worth something, but if it is making money it is worthless?
| 1:03 am on Mar 22, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I'll answer each of you in turn. I've been involved in the publishing game for 3 years. Have seen directories come and go, so I know how easy it is to 'get it very wrong', but am also highly aware of the 'get rich quick' idiots who treat the web as some kind of hustle or scam. Entering such a competative field requires seriousness, planning and a hot unique idea to just compete at some sort of level, before even thinking about beating the top players.
I'm not saying don't build a directory, I'm saying give it a lot of thought and get real about the possibility of losing everything you ever worked for, as any business is such a gamble long term. Just be careful.
This involves costs, infact had I known what was really involved in building/running a web business - I wouldn't have started it in the first place, but I've committed myself so......
The web may well be cheaper, but it's still a risk in many ways.
It's difficult to tell what people's motivations are for starting a directory, hell, maybe it's just the money, but ultimately people will visit expecting that free entry and something special. Free entries are simple to provide, but thinking of that something special that will pull the millions is tough. And the future of any advertising model boils down to delivering tons of traffic combined with value and a fantastic way of getting others noticed. Either you provide the results or I, the advertiser is going elsewhere and that's guaranteed.
First a directory needs a unique niche, something to get tounges wagging. Then it needs quality and great amounts of content, perfect design and finally has to be kept updated to keep the visitors coming back for more. Then you can promote it. As Brett said once, a website needs useful content, and lots of it.
I think there are some really good directory efforts out there, and I respect that. One guy put together thebiz.co.uk - this was a B2B effort, with some pretty good categories and design. It even got listed in theroughguide Website Directory, which is some feat and most impressive. For those of you that don't know this directory from adam, the roughguides is a series of well, information 'guides' that sell for £3.99 upwards and sell in WHSmiths and other leading bookshops in the uk and worldwide. The publishing group even sports it's own television series on different areas such as The rough guide to Career and rough guide to Travel etc etc.
So getting listed in both online and off is a major feat, which thebiz.co.uk founder achieved. But, thebiz no longer exists unfortunately, which is a shame really, but yes, it's that easy to fail. The mistake was trying to cover 3 niche areas at once: Events, Business and I think the tird was Leisure.
Talk about not deciding what your business is about, and that's one possible theory about why it failed.
But I'll stick a post together about the different directory types later on.
| 1:19 am on Mar 22, 2005 (gmt 0)|
partnership with SE's and other big portals etc. With the aim of getting large upfront cashflow by offering to place a job search engine or other service on the directory's space.
That kind of partnership. Very difficult to achieve as it's the same sort of difficulty as negotiating with a bank for a loan etc. Many directories end up with a very raw deal and most end up with no partnership at all.
| 11:25 am on Mar 23, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I once consulted to a man who reinvented affiliate marketing without realising it. He has a directory that uses data from another domain (local, not ODP). His model was to convert some of his traffic (AdWords and some organic) into leads for banks, insurance companies etc. His personal connections are top drawer, old school tie, so he used the angle "I choose you, not the other way around" when he approached the banks, etc. His lead forms are not the 4-to-5-field forms used by affiliates, but full copies of paper forms. He's sent a few Million $ leads to his merchants and I think he gets a lot more than the $15-$25 commissions that typical affs get.
So here is a directory using shared data that sustains a small business, staff and premises. When I first saw it, I would never have imagined that a non-Internet-expert person could do so well with a near-invisible site.
| 5:33 pm on Mar 23, 2005 (gmt 0)|
If this site is 'invisible' then in order to manage 5 full time and 3 part time sales assistants and rent a business premises - I doubt it.
Rent is very expensive. If you look/enquire with an estate agent, you'll hear about prices ranging from £15K to £25k per year, and that is just for rent!
Staff fees, he is looking at least £10K per staff member - per year. Well, that's £80,000 per year for 8 staff is it.
Well that's well over 100k per year. With hardly any advertising either you say? Sounds undoable to me...
| 12:49 am on Mar 24, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Bodyguard, I guess I don't see where the risk is coming from.
A directory script can be found for free, or possibly a few hundred bucks to outsource it overseas. A lot of people here can write it themselves in fact.
It should only cost a few bucks a month to host.
Filling the directory is more a matter of time than cost.
Getting links is the same way, although you can take the quick approach and buy.
I just don't see anyone mortgaging their homes over building out a directory. Most people aren't looking to be the next DMOZ, and instead would prefer to just use it as links for clients, their sites, and a few Adsense bucks.
| 2:10 am on Mar 24, 2005 (gmt 0)|
As I said before, it's difficult to know what drives others, and getting some script and sticking in adsense just tells me it's a quick cash generator.
I'm no web designer, but a quick check of source code or with a web designer can reveal a lot. These types of directory are unlikely to be anything more than a sad effort, and gives proper databases a bad name.
No I don't think anyone would sell a house to pay for one, but some would - you know they get the smell of money and they are so hooked. Personally, you'd need more than a script in place to risk that kind of cash.
Can't see much point in script directories or even SE's myself, I always check to see if the new ones are feeds etc, and once I find that out - I steer well clear lol. If I'm going to spend a few thousand, then I want it to pay for advertising space in an established SE or directory - not some namby pamby adsense one. No thanks.
Like I said in other post, people want results!
| 6:36 am on Mar 24, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Could someone please point me to the bit were anallawalla says this guy had 8 staff and an office over looking the waterfront in some exotic location because I must of missed that bit....
Bodyguard, 90% of web masters work from their garage or spare bedroom, not lease offices and have dozens of staff wages to pay but that does not mean they don't earn 6 or 7 figure sums without the overhead because believe me there are a lot of them out there who have managed to understand how the web works without the input of millions of dollars or in your case UK pounds..
| 10:28 am on Mar 24, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Er, I can't as I didn't say this bloke HAD to have that kind of disposable cash. The comment made before I answered it was:
>>>So here is a directory using shared data that sustains a small business, staff and premises<<<<
it does sound like a large operation too me, but also stated was that it had no advertising....... So like any post on any forum, I'm left with a choice to either believe what I'm reading or not.
Exotic locations? I never mentioned anything exotic, I pointed out some of the real costs that business need to be aware of. The poster made it sound as if this directory owner, had premises, but failed to mention the TYPE of premises.
That's not my fault.
| 7:40 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Exotic locations? I never mentioned anything exotic, |
Well for 25k a year I would want a waterfront exotic location not upstairs over a local kebab shop.
>>sustains a small business
Hmm...does that sound like a large operation
or maybe I have read the post wrong?
| 11:33 am on Mar 25, 2005 (gmt 0)|
>>sustains a small business
Hmm...does that sound like a large operation
If posters mention that others have business premises, then it's quite logical to think that business is large in terms of why it needs a premises and 8 staff to run it.
Now, the problem occurs when we don't know the actual size of premises involved here. Yeah, it may be a back bedroom, using affiliates. Well, then the original poster should have said that - if he knew the precise details himself. Chances are he was told or was led to believe this business owner was more than small time. Which is a distinct possibility on the web these days wouldn't you say......
If we're chatting, and you ask me what business I'm in, I could paint a very rosey picture, and you wouldn't know if I was distorting the truth or not.
So many lie on the web it's a joke, and I ain't talking about the scams either. The fact is you never really know who you are doing business with - not totally, and because the internet is made up of just web sites, it's too easy to be something you're not.
Disguises are safety nets, false ego boosts are fantasy and desperation is frustration and failure.
Fantasies..... Truth is distorted, the person never reveals themselves, just like forums. All done to get a little business.
| 1:13 am on Mar 26, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Does anybody think that Adsense possibly ruins a directory's credibility?
| This 32 message thread spans 2 pages: 32 (  2 ) > > |