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Bluefind Verdict
Does it pass PR?
submitx

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 11:30 pm on Dec 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have just checked Google backlinks of maney sites listed in Bluefind and was not able to find one site showing a backlink from Bluefind! Does anyone know if Bluefind works and if a listing there would improve PR.

Their main page for an strange reason had a PR0 for a few weeks, but now it's back ti PR8.

 

mosley700

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 4:51 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

BlueFind's main page has not been PR0 since it got PR almost a year ago.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 9:36 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

19,700 pages indexed in Google as of 2004-12-20. Over 95% of them with the Supplemental Kiss of Death. I think the value will come strictly from traffic within the directory itself, not from a backlink.

mosley700

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 1:36 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)


It was down to 8,000 pages, but after talking to the fine folks at Google several days ago it's now up to 42,000 for "site:bluefind.com bluefind"

In other words, it's being indexed again.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 2:13 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

In other words, it's being indexed again.

That's great that Google is willing to go out of their way to assist in your indexing.

But, indexing and performance are two different things. I see plenty of directory pages indexed, but, are they performing?

Don't get me wrong, I was impressed during the initial phases of your project. To take something from nothing and put it on the map as you did, is an achievement, especially with Google.

Unfortunately the promotional methods used may have been a little too above the radar and you got yourself caught up in the whole PageRank frenzy. The last thing I would want is people discussing my directory at the public level based solely on PageRank. As soon as that term factors in, things usually take a turn for the worse.

mosley700

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 2:41 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Like I've said elsewhere, PageRank is Google's problem, not ours. We do not guarantee PageRank transfer, nor do we guarantee listings be placed on a page that has PR. Nowhere in the BlueFind marketing materials do we offer PR or promise to assist in increasing PR.

If webmasterworld members think that by placing a single link on a category page that happens to have PR3 or PR4 that they will significantly increase their own PR, they are sorely mistaken. I've said it ad infinitum and ad nauseum, we don't offer PR.

If Google chooses to remove the PR from the site because some people gawk at it, that's their choice. I trust they will run their business as they see fit, and I'll do likewise.

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 2:47 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo is indexing the site, and so in MSN Beta.
That's good enough for me. ;)

submitx

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 9:00 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Sorry I thought it was PR 0, but now I remember, the main page was out of Google, but it is back now.

Anyway, so nobody here has an example of a site that shows a backlink from Bluefind in Google? Maybe the directory is just too new for the backlinks to show up. I guess I'll wait and see.

tigger

WebmasterWorld Senior Member tigger us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 9:56 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

nope and I've had sites listed for months

glengara

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 12:15 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Something isn't working with G, a PR8 with 10,900 G recognised links, most with targeted anchor text, but not in the first 100 for its KW.

On the other hand, when I looked 7-10 days ago, I didn't spot it in the top 100 in Y! either, but is now around 8.

The admin mentioned a couple of possible problems they were working on, if they were the cause of its under-performance on G, we should expect a meteoric rise.

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 12:47 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Something isn't working with G, a PR8 with 10,900 G recognised links, most with targeted anchor text, but not in the first 100 for its KW.

I think G is working fine. What I do believe is happening is the site has been hit with various penalties, one of them being the inability to pass PageRank.

Only time will tell. Based on what I've seen over the past 90-120 days, I would guess that the site in question is going through the typical process that most other directories have gone through over the past couple of years. Come out strong, gain a noble following and then slowly disappear into the directory graveyard where the rest of them have been collecting dust.

glengara

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 1:12 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I didn't mean G wasn't working, something with BF isn't working with G ;-)

I was looking at the network it's been advertising on, and a few other sites appear to be getting little benefit from the links.

Looks like the links may passing on PR alright, but without any ranking benefit, G couldn't just be blocking the anchor text, could they? ;-)

blaketar

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 4:22 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am happy to report that our listing shows up as a backlink!

Am I worried about PageRank Passing? Nope, sometime ago I followed the advice of some people here on these boards about building your traffic outside of the SE rings and it has paid off! If Goog goes away tomorrow, god bless the net!

conroy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 3:13 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

I believe bluefind is no longer passing pagerank, at least on many of its pages. I got a pr6 link from them into an internal page 4 months ago. For 3 months, that internal page jumped to #4 from #16. Last month it dropped back to #18. Nothing else on the site has changed. To me it is very clear it is not passing PR and I would not buy a link there now.

Macro

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 3:17 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

conroy, I have no connection with Bluefind but I find your conclusions unusual. You drop in ranking and conclude that BF is not passing PR? You do know that PR is not the only factor in rankings, don't you?

Robino

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 3:38 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)



I think the value will come strictly from traffic within the directory itself, not from a backlink.

So, basically no value?


pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 3:50 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

So, basically no value?

No value if there is no traffic. Keep in mind that there are other methods of promotion besides free search engine traffic. If a resource can send quality converting referrals to your site, then it has value.

Robino

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 5:22 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)


Well I have six Blue Find listings and have yet to see a referral.

Personally, I paid for the backlink. But I understand the risks so I can't complain...and I wont.


dauction

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 7:01 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure what the problem is here other then a few group of people dislike another group of people ..so lets drop all of that for a moment.

As far as Directories go ; what are Blue's Pros and Cons ?

I dont personally know John or his group of people but I got tired of listening to the bickering the past few months so 3 months ago a listed 2 websites just to test for myself..

Cons:
I dont really get any direct traffic ..nothing to write home about anyways.

PR boost? Hard to say since G hasnt updated PR in such a long time

Pros:

Blue does advertise ..we know they have purchased at least one big (expensive) ad caimpaign .. I figure if they are willing to dish out big bucks to advertise ..sure I'll dish out a few bucks and see if I can catch a ride

I am at (least for the time being) on the front page of my categories... if they continue to advertise I'll get more direct traffic ..not just from a link boost

It is a Link.. Yahoo is now showing Blue as a backlink and I moved on my main keyword from 135th to 75th out of 15 million results..Is that Blue...hard to say but that addedd link certainly didnt hurt .

What ever problem G had with Blue seems to be taken care of ..

Will I pay for link.. well since I seethat Y doesnt have a problem and G seems to be back on track and the fact that getting links get more difficult with each day..

sure I'll probably pay for another link as long as I see Blue still advertising ,and still working and not just sitting still like most of these dead in the water directories..

When I see Blue sitting Idle and they are no longer working the Directory to make it better and to advertise it is when I'll also see no point in submitting.

JMO..

awall19

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 3:33 pm on Dec 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

>No value if there is no traffic.

funny how some people make conclusions about how they know how all the search engines run their businesses. if they really did you would think that those people would be off making profitable business models instead of wasting their time trying to rip down the business models of others.

self imposed authority is rather insulting, to each their own though...

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 3:55 pm on Dec 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

funny how some people make conclusions about how they know how all the search engines run their businesses.

Aaron, I don't see anyone making conclusions on how the search engines run their business. I made a factual statment that was not intended to rip down anyone's business model.

No traffic, no value.

If there is no traffic, there is no value, that is a plain and simple factual statement.

If they really did you would think that those people would be off making profitable business models instead of wasting their time trying to rip down the business models of others.

Then why are you not out there making a profitable business model?

Self imposed authority is rather insulting, to each their own though...

There is no self-imposed authority here. Only years of experience which many are speaking from.

From a personal perspective, your methods of promoting BlueFind (your own), are probably doing it more harm than good. Think about that before you start chiming in all over the net whenever a BlueFind discussion crops up.

We were having a professional discussion on the merits of the BlueFind directory. If you don't have anything to say of merit, then don't say it. Write it in your book! ;)

P.S. Before you start rambling on about this and about that, remember that I paid $100 to sponsor a category. One referrer in 30 days does not represent value for me. So, I speak with a certain level of knowledge when it comes to the value of being listed in BlueFind.

conroy

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 6:55 pm on Dec 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

> You drop in ranking and conclude that BF is not passing PR?

Yes. It was an extremely isolated test. Supplemental results have no value. I presented my opinion based on test results, take it for what it is worth. BF may be passing PR on some pages and not others, depending on supplemental results.

awall19

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 8:14 pm on Dec 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>No traffic, no value.

>If there is no traffic, there is no value, that is a plain and simple factual statement.

many links offer indirect value. I get lots of links knowing that their algorithmic value far exceeds that which their direct traffic value does...since there are a few gateways to the web that control a ton of traffic getting a couple links here and their to boost your relevancy can have a significant impact on your traffic and conversions. Many webmasters also do the same.

>>If they really did you would think that those people would be off making profitable business models instead of wasting their time trying to rip down the business models of others.

>Then why are you not out there making a profitable business model?

I have one, or two, or three, or four (so far)...or so I think anyway ;)

I am always trying to learn more and do more stuff too though.

>>Self imposed authority is rather insulting, to each their own though...

>There is no self-imposed authority here. Only years of experience which many are speaking from.

I really do not buy the word many in that sentence.

There are some people asking questions and really there are only a couple people dominating the thread.

>From a personal perspective, your methods of promoting BlueFind (your own), are probably doing it more harm than good. Think about that before you start chiming in all over the net whenever a BlueFind discussion crops up.

I am not actually promoting BlueFind right now - I am not directly attached to it, and in fact I even am an editor for some of its competitors (such as UncoverTheNet). I am stating that the authoritative "it has no value" answers are something that should be taken with a grain of salt.

>We were having a professional discussion on the merits of the BlueFind directory. If you don't have anything to say of merit, then don't say it. Write it in your book! ;)

That indirectly infers that my book has no value, which is absolutely insulting.

>P.S. Before you start rambling on about this and about that, remember that I paid $100 to sponsor a category. One referrer in 30 days does not represent value for me. So, I speak with a certain level of knowledge when it comes to the value of being listed in BlueFind.

I do not think that there is probably adequate value for many sites in the sponsorships since it does not drive a ton of traffic.

I do think it provides decent value for the lifetime link submission cost. If I sell one ebook over the next couple years from the direct or indirect effect of links from that directory the listing pays for itself for me. I doubt a sponsorship position for my site would probably be worth it in direct traffic.

I still would like to see lots of unique useful resources added to BlueFind and similar directories for free. This would help them develop more unique content, help the directory gain traffic, help the directory have more value to search engines, help search engines cluster some of the commercial listings with some of the industry hubs, make the directory more useful to directory visitors, and help the directory create more natural linkage data. I still do not understand why there are not lots more quality resources added.

In summary, I am not the guy who is perpetually in defense of BlueFind, I think there are lots of things it could do a bunch better, but it seems too often that a few people try to diminish that what they do not do as having no value at all.

Lots of stuff is also infered, but in diminishing BlueFind it would be better off if you also recommended other things that provided better value. State a few directories you think are worthwhile, why you think google would want to penalize it, how other directory owners could avoid similar problems that BlueFind is facing, what specific problem BlueFind is facing, etc.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 8:54 am on Dec 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>> If there is no traffic, there is no value, that is a plain and simple factual statement. <<<<

>> many links offer indirect value. <<

If the page passes no PR, and the link attracts zero visitors, then there really is zero value for the person being linked to.

mosley700

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 8:19 pm on Dec 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>Before you start rambling on about this and about that, remember that I paid $100 to sponsor a category. One referrer in 30 days does not represent value for me. So, I speak with a certain level of knowledge when it comes to the value of being listed in BlueFind.

As I recall, the $100 was refunded to you the minute you hinted that you were not happy with the amount of traffic you were receiving from the directory. That was several months ago.

And while the page you are listed on was dropped from Google's index for a month or so, like most of BlueFind's pages, I see it's back in the regular index, not marked as supplemental, and my guess is it's a link of at least some value.

Anyway, you did not lose anything. You got a sponsored listing for free, so I really don't see what you've got to complain about.

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 8:47 pm on Dec 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

While I know there are merits to Bluefind as well as some criticism for some of the SEO techniques Bluefind has used, I'm a little disappointed in the flaming going on here.

If you don't like it, don't use it. And if you use it and don't like it, request a refund (b/c you will probably get it if you ask politely).

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 12:35 am on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

As I recall, the $100 was refunded to you the minute you hinted that you were not happy with the amount of traffic you were receiving from the directory. That was several months ago.

John, I'm convinced now that both you and Aaron and whomever else is on the BF Bandwagon just cannot handle these public topics about the directory. I've not once said I was not happy with the amount of traffic I might have received from the directory. I made a comment in another public topic here as the value of a listing at the time I was listed and I was quickly sent a refund. I did not ask for a refund and I did not voice any claims that I was unhappy. I was more than willing to let it ride for 90 days to at least have a little more history. I did not ask for a refund.

And while the page you are listed on was dropped from Google's index for a month or so, like most of BlueFind's pages, I see it's back in the regular index, not marked as supplemental, and my guess is it's a link of at least some value.

I didn't submit to the directory for the value of the link. That's where the whole directory concept is flawed. I submitted in hopes of having a valid authoritative resource at the top level of the category I submitted to. I could care less about the value of the link.

Anyway, you did not lose anything. You got a sponsored listing for free, so I really don't see what you've got to complain about.

Show me where I've complained, please John. Your lack of diplomacy and those of your followers is what is causing more harm to that directory than anything else. When you set up a directory that looks like a self-promotional setup from the outside, I think it might be in your best interest to handle all public concerns with a little more diplomacy.

[edited by: pageoneresults at 1:20 am (utc) on Dec. 26, 2004]

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 12:38 am on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

As I recall, the $100 was refunded to you the minute you hinted that you were not happy with the amount of traffic you were receiving from the directory. That was several months ago.

John, I didn't even want to go there. The last thing I wanted to do is for you to have a mass refund request from those who experienced the same thing I did. Remember, you brought that one up, not I. So, if you spend the rest of the holidays processing refund requests, it was not my doing! ;)

pageoneresults

WebmasterWorld Senior Member pageoneresults us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 12:40 am on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

While I know there are merits to Bluefind as well as some criticism for some of the SEO techniques Bluefind has used, I'm a little disappointed in the flaming going on here.

Who the heck is flaming? I see a natural progressing discussion that was interrupted by both John Scott and Aaron Wall who appear to take everything as an attack when I do believe it was not meant that way. We don't allow flaming at WebmasterWorld and if the Admins thought this topic had that aura about it, the discussion would have been put on hold or the flames would have been snipped.

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 2301 posted 1:22 am on Dec 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

It sounds like a (somewhat heated) discussion between a webmaster and a customer on his site.

As I said...I purchased a link on Bluefind, and I don't regret it. However, for most sites I would not purchase a link (only did so for one), because there are just so many free directories out there (hundreds).

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