>> The more interesting question is ...
I like that - the old favourite of politicians around the world ;)
2000 sites a day sounds like a lot. It's about one new site added per 33 editors, one new site per 295 categories. Or, if you look at it on an annual basis, that's an average of about 1 site added per category per year. Accounting for de-listings may push it up to an average of 1.5 sites added to each category over twelve months.
Which is fine of course, as long as the internet community isn't inconsiderate enough to - among all members - launch more than 1.5 good sites a year.
Now that is a very political response you've made there, macro.
You don't know the number of sites being handled each day by editors because the raw statistic hides (among others): the number of sites delisted from the suggested URL queues
the number of sites looked at in the suggested URL queues, and sent to a more appropriate queue for review by the editors there
the number of sites already listed that are checked and remain listed as a result -- or are relisted in another category.
About all you can realistically do with a figure of aronnd 2000 sites per day of real growth is turn it into an annual percentage:
2000 sites a day is around 730,000 per annum.
The ODP has around 4,000,000 URLs in its categories, so that is an annual growth rate of around 18%.
That is faster than any other directory I know of that has in excess of 1,000,000 unique entries.
Whether it is fast enough to keep pace with the web as a whole is (still) the more interesting question.
|Whether it is fast enough to keep pace with the web as a whole is (still) the more interesting question. |
It is an interesting question.
My take on it is human/manual indexing and categorising could never compete with spider/automated indexing and categorising in terms of keeping up with the "density" of the web.
So our reliance has to be on the search engines to do the fast upkeep of the "web as a whole".
The principle of a hand-edited directory is that it should lack spam and only list quality sites of unique content.
I think that's what the directories as a whole need to strive for, over and above fast inclusion or indexing.
|The ODP has around 4,000,000 URLs in its categories, so that is an annual growth rate of around 18% |
Er, I make it less than 3% pa over the last two years [web.archive.org].
Do you disagree with my calculation of a net growth rate of 1.5 new sites per category per year (accounting for delists and relists)?
This is another thread that basically is just saying that sometimes.. quite a lot of the time.. submissions are dealt with in the timely manner that webmasters would like.
Errr yeah well we all know that, don't we? This is not news.
As a webmaster, I know the value of an ODP listing. But I've had things queued up for goodness knows how long, but so what. It'll most likely get reviewed one day. There are other ways to promote a web site though, with plenty of competing directories.
It's mentioned a lot elsewhere, but if your business model depends on an ODP listing, then you're in the wrong business.
(By the way, there are actually over 4.3 million sites listed in the ODP)
|Er, I make it less than 3% pa over the last two years. |
You need a much better set of snapshots than that. The number of sites as quoted on the home page is rarely updated.
You'd get a more useful set of figures by downloading the RDF once a week for (say) six months, and running a few diff utils against consecutive versions.
That would give detailed and definitive answers to many of these sorts of questions.
|Do you disagree with my calculation of a net growth rate of 1.5 new sites per category per year (accounting for delists and relists)? |
Ah, OK, your persuasive one word calculations have me completely convinced ;)
But hold on....
|The number of sites as quoted on the home page is rarely updated. |
Someone take a minute away from that hectic one-page-a-day work and update your home page! Do it at least once a year. It is, after all, the face you show the world.
A one-word answer is all that was needed as the earlier part of the same post exlained how to get precise numbers for yourself.
Get some ODP RDFs. Run some stats.
Any volunteer critic of the ODP who hasn't taken a few moments to do that is not well equipped to comment.
Does anyone have any idea as to how long it should normally take the ODP Public Forum to activate your membership so you can post messages?
Apparently an editor removed my site some time ago and ive just found out recently.
I tried to post on the ODP forum but ive been waiting 2 weeks still hav'nt got an email reply that confirms membership so i can use it. Lets me log in with that email and id but wont let me post.
Is several weeks a normal wait just to join the ODP forum?
>Is several weeks a normal wait just to join the ODP forum?
It should have been immediate - there is no wait. Did you put in the correct email address? Did it get caught by a spam filter?
I'm sure the emails right.Maybe it is a spam filter.I'm gonna try again with a different email.
ODP listings are good if you can get them, but they are not a webmasters right, having edited in the ODP I know how much crap gets submitted, I also know that the system is not totally unbiased but I also know that good sites with something new to offer tend to get in as most editors with half a brain will not fail to add a site that meets ODP criteria for fear of being booted out, so if a site is not added it is either crap or pretty much the same as other sites listed, the fact that other similar sites are listed does not mean that a new submission qualifies, its just more of the same thing and in the ODP eyes offers 'no new or unique content'.
So my advice if you submit and don't get listed first, look at your site and see if there is anything about the site that makes it worth listing, if there is contact the editor of the category detailing your reasons, if you get no response work your way up the food chain.
If that doesn't work then give up and work on other ways to promote your site.
>ODP listings are good if you can get them, but they are not a webmasters right, having edited in the ODP I know how much crap gets submitted, I also know that the system is not totally unbiased but I also know that good sites with something new to offer tend to get in as most editors with half a brain will not fail to add a site that meets ODP criteria for fear of being booted out, so if a site is not added it is either crap or pretty much the same as other sites listed, the fact that other similar sites are listed does not mean that a new submission qualifies, its just more of the same thing and in the ODP eyes offers 'no new or unique content'.
Have I missed a change in the ODP guidelines? I was under the impression I was never compelled to add a site, except under the very unusual circumstance I might have in that category an affiliated listed site that I could be seen as editing with bias. If "fail to add a site that meets ODP criteria for fear of being booted out" is the rule at the ODP, I'm gonna have to resign as an editor. Along with all the metas and editalls who have failed to add sites meet ODP criteria for being added. Metas and editalls can edit in any category.
|Get some ODP RDFs. Run some stats. |
Don't need to. The numbers I've published here are demonstrative enough (and verifiable by other members casually reading this thread). I have no intention of spending several days digging out and publishing the bleeding....
For those of you who think ODP is fantastic, then, well, great. For those of you who realise the current state it's in - here's what you do: Browse through a few categories, find one that hasn't been worked on for a while, pick out those sites in that cat that look negelected and you'll be able to pick up a few good sites for a pittance. In fact, the ODP is so, so rubbish in one category - and there are so many neglected and unwanted sites in there which I have bought - that I've almost cornered the market for that widget. Pretty much any site you go to in the category (or Google directory's equivalent) will lead you to my widget site. But, I can't cover all categories. There are a lot, lot more ignored, out of date categories that you too can exploit. For those of you who recognise it this is a unique opportunity and you heard it here first. (Even if that monopoly lasts only for a year or two you can make a very, very tidy profit).
Turn a problem into an opportunity :)
To reaffirm an earlier comment, NO, I'm not interested in improving the quality of the ODP ;)
|I have no intention of spending several days |
I understand your position, macro.
You are a volunteer critic of the ODP who puts clear and precise limits on what you are prepared to do with the spare time that you spend as an ODP critic.
But yet you have various demands and suggestions about what extra tasks volunteer editors should take on with the spare time they spend with the ODP.
Lead by example. No one ever put up a statue to a critic (as Sibelius said)
>>you have various demands and suggestions about what extra tasks volunteer editors should take on
Er, you're making it up as you go along. What "extra tasks" did I suggest?
>>You are a volunteer
"Volunteer"? Don't tar me with the same brush as ODP eds ;)
|and you heard it here first. |
Oh no we didn't, this has been going on for a very long time and like you say it is a unique opportunity ;)
>>this has been going on for a very long time
I didn't say it's a new idea or that I'm the only one who's ever thought of it ;)
If you have some earlier thread suggesting the "cornering" of a walking dead category by buying as many sites as you can within it I'd be interested in reading that thread (whether it's here or elsewhere).
|Er, you're making it up as you go along. What "extra tasks" did I suggest? |
|Someone take a minute away from that hectic one-page-a-day work and update your home page! Do it at least once a year. It is, after all, the face you show the world. |
Of course! And here's me thinking that updating the number on the home page* would take only a few seconds a year! My apologies :). Just out of interest, how many editors does it take to change a light bulb?
Do continue, I'd love to hear all the other "tasks". This is most interesting :)
*That was my suggestion to the ODP in general and not you as an editor. I doubt normal eds have those priveleges anyway. You'd probably need to be a meta, mega, editall, supermeta, somethingortheother.
I got a site in the other day it took a few months. I submitted it. I got a link on a pr5 page. It is not hard to get into DMOZ for non comercial areas. Even in some of the comercial areas you can get one included in a year. If your site is submitted right and your site meets their idea of a site that should be included it will be. I have 5 sites in DMOZ. Submit only once. Follow their rules to the T. I must admit there are some areas that are impossible because of some corruption. Just submit once and forget about it. The first sign of it in G will be from clones. Another way to get in is to have a site that does not fit into any catagory they may create one for you.
I read and read... but i cant understand why people are so upset when the website they submit doesnt get listed! Its just one link... submit and forget thats what you need to do, for all it is you people go on and on about why you didnt get listed.. is it pride? because that guys site is listed so yours should be?
I mean really... whats the big deal its one directory! why all this?
enlighten' me plz!
|LizardGroupie get your jabs somewhere else or stay on topic. |
Dude - you aint being to nice to other members here.
msg #:31 &
|Ok, I'll stay on topic... |
[edited by: rj87uk at 11:40 am (utc) on Dec. 10, 2004]
>> is it pride?
Read the thread.
My question is why do people see ODP criticisms and automatically assume it's a "my site didn't get listed" issue (instead of actually reading the thread). <sigh>
|I have two sites that I built over two years ago. I have tried over and over to get listed in the open directory project but can not get listed. What is the deal with these people? without being listed on their directory aol search and google will not list my sites. I know they use editors for their listings but for some reason these people have decided not to my site. Is there anyone I can contact there to find out what's going on? Or does anybody have any advice on getting listed? |
|what is the deal with the ODP & won't list my websites |
submit and forget.
|DMOZ What a bunch of hypocrites, |
|I've been missing these ODP bashing threads... |
|Webmasterworld is full of too many ODP-haters and baiters. ;( |
|..automatically assume it's a "my site didn't get listed" issue |
I must have read the first post wrongly...
[edited by: rj87uk at 11:50 am (utc) on Dec. 10, 2004]
I don't remember the url but some time ago I find a very interesting article about spaming the odp (probably by "editors">>>webmasters)submiting several pages of their sites in deferent categories. Some urls have up to 7-8 listings, now who's talking about dmoz democracy (LOL)or better to say a dmoz caste(closed upper society). In small words if your page is competitive to the editors page in the category you submit forget it for ever. I bet my neck if I am wrong. Am I?
brixton I agree. for all its worth your best just submit it and hope for the best. then forget :)
brixton, I agree. There are a lot of things wrong with the ODP. That's what I keep emphasising but the focus seems to keep getting down to sour grapes.
>>Some urls have up to 7-8 listings
There are some sites with tens of thousands of listings (like some news sites etc). That's not an issue if every listing meets the ODP guidelines and rules. But, there is so much else wrong with the ODP as I've been trying to explain in my posts. From a home page that doesn't get updated ... to a search feature that often goes down ... to some categories which are so badly outdated they represent great opportunites (sometimes ODP's problems can generate more money that a listing can :)). So don't just submit and forget! Monitor it. If you aren't getting listed come back and read msg #75.
I read and read... but i cant understand why people are so upset when the website they submit doesnt get listed! Its just one link...
I mean really... whats the big deal its one directory! why all this?
Because OPD feeds multitudes of other directories as well as the Google directory--you can't get in Google Dir. without being in ODP first. And a lot of people use Google Dir to find sites to link to and those ranking at the top of the Google dir, i.e., most PR, get the most people requesting you to trade links
In summary: ODP = Google Dir = ODP clones = more traffic = more links = more PR.
Maybe "fire and forget" is the best philosophy. Follow the guidelines, find the best category, write a GOOD description and submit it.
If nothing happens after 6 months, go to the ODP Public Forum just to check that it hasn't been rejected. If you think you can see obvious, demonstrable fraud then report it. But by and large.. the site will eventually get reviewed.
Don't worry.. be happy.. :)
Im still waiting for a repy to join the forum and its my second attempt to communicate with a logged in user name.
I mean they assigned me a user name ive logged in several times since my last post and still can not post to dmoz forum because they wont activate it.
Ive been busy doing carpentry and drywall since im not a full time web designer so I havnt had time, but im going to try again as i know the Dmoz listing is very important.
No humans are involved in the activation process. You sign up, it sends an email if it can (assuming you typed in your email correctly, your email server/provider isn't acting up at the time, your inbox isn't full, it isn't getting tagged as spam and being deleted unread, etc.) that you reply to. It's all automatic.
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