| This 46 message thread spans 2 pages: 46 (  2 ) > > || |
|What's your secret plan for global (directory) domination?|
Might as well lighten up back here, there's no real secrets
| 6:43 am on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
My secret plan: Shock and awe.
Massive attack of multiple vertically integrated (sometimes referred to as 'niche') directories. Full scale integration with reckless disregard for SE issues relating to interlinking.
Cornered the market on all the good directory domains awhile back, so can't do much about that. Either they work or don't. C'est la vie.
I think that about covers it for moi. Did I forget anything?
So, having said that, I've got to ask: What's your secret plan for global directory domination?
No holding back. We've all likely gotten it pretty well figured out anyway, so . . . lights down, spotlight up, audience sits silent, drum roll . .
This isn't a request for critques. Just lay it out: How will you rule the world, in 50 words or less, and wherever possible, make it funny while spot on.
P.S. Please take this in the spirit it is intended: 1) We are all in this together. 2) There's plenty of room for players. 3) If this isn't fun then what's the point? 4) You'll survive, so why not have a laugh and be nice to one another. 5) It's usually better to make friends than to do otherwise ;-)
| 7:41 am on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Focus. Coverage. Authority.
Kind of exactly opposite to your apparent plans. But then I think we're on different models anyway... Who has the resources to do global?
Sorry, wasn't funny (it's early in the morning) and how come we get limited to 50 words anyway? Do only lawyers get a constitutional right to verbal diarrhea?
| 8:35 am on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
| 2:46 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Oh, c'mon ncw164x. The vast majority of anyone's 'secret sauce' is on display for the whole world to see. Otherwise 'it ain't working.
In the realtime, ramp it up in days world, the 'leader to market gains the advantage' logic of 1999 has been thoroughly disproven. Remember all those super secret dot coms that were going to capture the market by being first to market? (Thinking TheMan.com .. .) Once they burned their VC money their was nothing left but ashes.
What I'm putting out here, actually, is an acid test. Think someone is going to steal your big idea? Ya - 2 minutes after you launch. So what? If it's bullet proot it's bullet proof. Think coming out of the starting gate first fixes the outcome of the race?
Here's the obvious stuff of success: Make it relevant, easy to navigate, useful content, etc. That's all a given. We've soft of covered that in the 'what makes a good directory' thread.
So, what do you have that sets you apart, that can't be duplicated?
A friend in the industry? Programming skills beyond the ken of the ordinary man? 30 years in the industry as an insider?
If the answer is 'nothing special' then where's the future?
| 3:54 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
You could build the best-ever directory, but it might be quite a while before your target audience would notice.
World players need savvy promotion in their skill set, along with everything else you mentioned.
| 6:38 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Well at least it raised a response Webwork ;)
Seeing as my first post was only two words I am going to go over my allotted 50 words
I don't have any 'secret sauce' and no secret plan for global directory domination, everything at the moment is going local not global.
A few of the many items which form the basis of an all in package for any site and not in any particular order
1 Site Content
visitors return time after time for "Your Directory" content
2 Ease of use
keep your navigation simple
3 Good hosting company
If your site is not up 24/7 then you can have the best directory in the world but your visitors can be very fickle and will soon go elsewhere
4 Surround yourself with good people
I can't write a single line of code but I know a lot of people who I can call upon to help me out if I am stuck
5 Form good partnerships with content suppliers
These are the lifeline of the success of your directory
6 keep your overhead to a minimum
From the outset I have always optimised graphics and page code to keep bandwidth to a minimum
7 Enjoy what you are doing
Be prepared not to earn any money for a very long time while your directory gets established, if the fun stops then it's time to call it a day and move onto something else
8 Learn the seo trade
Organic traffic cost nothing (thank you google and yahoo) it's one thing doing PPC if you have fat pockets but directories don't "normally" generate massive amounts of money
9 Visitor feedback
What drive me on is when you get visitor feedback saying words like "Well Done" "Excellent site" "keep up the good work" OK you do get the adverse comments as well but they normally come from an AOL dial up so you can excuse these type of people ;)
So really Webwork, my answer is 'nothing special' just enjoy what you do and do it to the best of your ability
| 6:49 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
The 50 words, as is often the case with me, was stated in jest as you recognize, so your thougtful words 'over the limit' are appreciated ;-)
The line in my post about 'global domination' is also in jest. My corporate consultant advised me to add this denial, I mean disclaimer, errr . . . clarifying statement to obfuscate my secret grandiose plan which, of course, is global domination. I mean, global fellowship. Say what? Would you like a petit four?
P.S. Doctor Evil is my public relations and corporate strategy consultant. I'm so confused.
P.P.S. My objective in this thread, lest I further confuse anyone, is to encourge a little lightening up and encouragement of constructive fellowship back here - in the directory realm. I sometimes get the sense that something other than constructive fellowship is in the air, but maybe it's just my perception.
| 8:41 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Don't waste my time with it. You need millions.
| 8:48 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Huh...millions of what...visitors...dollars...?
| 9:12 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
What do you think.... Are you saying you don't know, or are you trying to goad me.
| 9:20 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Ahhh, the warm and fuzzy stuff I obliquely referenced surfaces ;-) No matter, really. Millions, huh? Hmmmm, that was what Doctor Evil was thinking, too.
Dr. Evil says I should hold the world hostage to my directory threat unless I am paid drum roll, music swells, faces appear concerned, camera zooms in on Dr. Evil's face . . . $1,000,000.00 dollars.
To be continued . . .
<Looks around for ignore button. Click.>
| 9:24 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I was asking in what light you think needs the millions, millions of visitors to get a directory off the ground or millions of dollars to achieve the same result.. sorry not goading just asking a simple question?
| 9:26 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
OK, webwork, I agree with ncw164x, and I think many directory or niche operators do:
know it, love it, own it
and, as you say, it helps no end to have a USP and skills which are hard to reproduce. If you came into an area like that, it'd be hard for you to compete because it wouldn't be a level playing ground.
On the other hand, you can go the global route, with minimal depth but maximum coverage and relying on 1 gold coin from many people rather than 100 gold coins from a few. Affiliate and Adsense directories, mostly.
Or you can leverage a niche service to a global level. Weather, maps, whatever.
But unless you are a conglomerate of some sort or other I don't see how you can marry expert status with the kind of coverage you are talking about. Even the few "global" directories/portals that exist have problems with that one - probably About comes closest.
So I know you didn't want a critique but you are asking everyone else about their plans - what about you?
Loads of vaguely industry-specific domain names that are interlinked and you are going to launch at the same time. And?
(Because that doesn't cut it on its own..)
Are you scraping content? Paying lots of editors? Franchising? Or using DMOZ basics like the other thouands?
Where are the inward links necessary for multiple directories to rank coming from? Where's the marketing to get the views for advertising? Where's the visibility? Where's the word of mouth?
| 10:12 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Just 1 of the problems you may face is free traffic through serps
to get free traffic you need lots of sites linking to you if you want multiple thousands of pages indexed and as it's been done umpteen times with dmoz clones any link even those bought will be highly devalued /diluted re: PR
so someone said millions to launch maybe not millions but suspect to make an impact globally $100,000 for advertising and unless it's a scraper / dmoz clone
another $100,000 for content developers
plus minimum of 2 years to actually develope something worthwhile
sorry to pour cold water on your idea
The one piece of advice I would give is buying traffic can become a money pit due to ROI
there are some like nw who have many years head start on you and me and an income that allows further developement
just my own ramblings so means diddly squat
| 10:15 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Stever, I'm with NCW: Love it. I've been at this labor of love, studying the heck out of everything search for 5 years, waiting patiently for the right moment.
Keep your overhead down as you grow it? Yep, built a law practice on the same principal. What else needs to be added? Work out, in some great detail, an action plan and build in efficiencies every place you can. Have a host that is willing and able to handle all issues.
Traffic? Uh-huh. Wouldn't it be nice to be loved by any search engine, but at the same time, wouldn't it be nice to design something that - in theory - could survive outside the box? (The search box, that is). How does one do that in this realm? Do you think that it has to cost millions, or is there possibly another approach that might work 'by design'? That's not to say that $$$ might not be poured into this little project at some point. I've already funded it to an amount that, well, is a lot.
That many people have a 'game over' mentality works for me. All along, as I've mucked my way through this, my "interpretative question of it all" has been this: How can one little guy with a peashooter have the greatest impact? That's all.
So, my secret plan is to be very big and very small all at the same time. Very focused yet very expansive, all at the same time. Very economical but . . . all at the same time.
Somewhat Zen like, which allows for perfect harmony and tranquility existing in the midst of chaos and insanity - the sort of life experience that I find most interesting.
Now, how's that for an answer?
| 10:25 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|How can one little guy with a peashooter have the greatest impact? |
By studying his targets to find their weak spots, and aiming at them one at a time.
| 11:02 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
"Build it and they will come" also sounds vaguely Zen, but I'm not sure that it's a successful model. And love, well, you're spreading that very valuable commodity quite thinly. As someone said, there's not enough love in this world to go round...
Let's say I'm an experienced, respected and intelligent widget-turner. And I speak Swahili, which not many widget-turners do. So, by a combination of USP, work, targeting and co-operation, I own the Swahili terms.
Given that there's a demand in Swahili, with your new generalist directory, widgetturners-R-us.org, how do you plan to take me (and the rest of the industry trailing in my wake) out?
And now the other thousands of niches?
| 11:29 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Stever, the road, in certain cases, is created by the driving, in which case the map is a retrospective, not a guide. That pretty well describes my little project.
If you're in Vegas we can take our somewhat productive, somewhat edgy dialogue forward under the mellowing inflence of cigars and beers. In that light who knows? We might just be friends, despite any other circumstances. My best lawyer friends, who I sometimes go up against in court, are great companions for drinks after work so long as we conduct ourselves honorably in battle - no matter how vigorous that battle may be. ;-)
I'll buy the first beer, then we can conspire to achieve total global domination.
| 11:35 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|then we can conspire to achieve total global domination |
You better watch out for Buckworks peashooter ;)
| 11:38 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>> Did I forget anything?
The quality of your outbounds will be the quality of your product. The more links you have, the more subjects, the more time you will have to spend checking and correcting. 404s are not your worst case, as these can be found by scripts, but anyway, you will find out. It's not easy to make sure you're always linking to what you think you're linking to.
Added: Forgot humor. Sometimes a site turned into a pr0n site or whatever can be quite hilarious if it used to be something completely different. Can't mention specifics, though ;)
| 11:47 pm on Nov 10, 2004 (gmt 0)|
NCW - I consider Bucky a friend and therefore any plan of global domination would, of necessity, include her ;-) The nice thing about a very large pie is that there's plenty to go around, which is especially nice when one's needs aren't that great. A roof over my head, food on the table, clothing on my back and healthy kids and I'm a happy man.
The rumors of Bucky yearning for Paul Allen sized yachts [powerandmotoryacht.com] and Bill Gates sized estates isn't true, is it?
| 12:02 am on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|The rumors of Bucky yearning for Paul Allen sized yachts and Bill Gates sized estates isn't true, is it? |
You couldn't have much of a party inside a yacht the size of Paul Allen.
| 12:14 am on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Nyuck, nyuck, nyuck.
Gotta be an English major ;-P
| 2:43 am on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I just soft launched my first of three niche directories...thanks for some of the tips posted in this thread.
| 3:12 am on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
This thread is pointless. Nobody in their right sain mind is going to disclose their plans for technology development etc.
Let's all ask Looksmart (before they have legal safeguards against theft etc) to inform us of their next major move in the SE wars. What do you think they would say to that.
| 8:38 am on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
"Enthusiasm is contagious"
Threads like this are not "pointless" because someone somewhere is still looking for a tiny piece of the jigsaw puzzle to piece together their idea and to put it into action.
"Give and thou shalt receive"
What started off as a jovial approach turns out has helped someone, that's what this forum is all about... helping others...over the years others have helped me and it's time for "ME" to try and give something back.
climb down from soap box and puts box away
| 1:02 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Passion, goodwill gestures, freebies etc.
Sorry I don't buy all this 'charity' on the web. Never did, and never will, because it's all lies intended to fool the buyer into spending cash. People start up web sites cos they think the internet is an easy way to make money - or to be more accurate, turn nobody's into millionaires.
Of course they'll never admit that, otherwise the game is up, and they will lose out on any riches for sure.
Usally, web business are set up by the 20 - 30 age group, who can't stand going to work the 9-5 routine.
But what they don't understand is that it's difficult to actually make major money on the web, and I'm not talking about a few thousand here and their - I mean millions - to run a successful web company.
They see a web site (major company) that's obviously established years before, and think I want a piece of the pie (which has just been mentioned above) so a site is created, and people are spammed to high heaven until they 'hopefully' pay up. It's the get rich quick mentality, and it never works. There are so many who want to make it, except the sad truth is, they won't.
We have what - 3 billion web sites today? something like that, anyway, most of it is crap and are sales pages designed to fool the inexperienced, and take $40 - $100 a time. lol.
People are so silly and gullible it's incredible, except now directories are the same. Galaxy starts one, then Yahoo, Google etc etc - they become wealthy, people think "oh that's easy" do the same and now we have thousands of directories pretty much the same in terms of categories, design format and charges.
It's so sad, it was so obvious this was going to happen, and despite the amount of warnings on forums and scam sites, it's still happening, and I bet someone has just launched a site, in the time it's taken me to write this post.
Now, I visited one site that had a hundred directory sites on it, and the owner starts a thread, asking what people's plans are, and he also says he's not trying to learn of people's future plans regarding their directories, and that he's just having a laugh.
I beleive he also mentioned ' What's your secret plan for global (directory) domination?'. This isn't about getting rich then? So why has he/she gone to the trouble of creating 100 directories? For fun maybe, humanitarian reasons, passion perhaps. It's domination pure and simple, or get rich quick in other words. But there's just one little problem with niche directories though - there isn't all this room for everybody.
Sorry to shatter and destroy anyones dreams but the niche area has been taken care of already 100 times over, before this guy or whoever put their 100 niche directories up, and even before that guy copied the idea -it had been done before by someone else.
All you got to do is run a search, for the proof. The niche directory area has already been dominated 20 time over, and that's just a guess by me, I'm sure if a proper search was done, it would be way more than that.
Several years ago, I would have agreed with you about the passion thing, but not now.
| 1:40 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I agree with you i did start to do a post and then checked the same as you did and decided against sharing on this thread and a few others with similar fishing for information
| 2:11 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I've got a niche. It's a secret niche. And that's why it's going to dominate the world. Even then, no one will ever know about it.
| 2:32 pm on Nov 11, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|Do you think that it has to cost millions, or is there possibly another approach that might work 'by design'? |
I know of one niche site/directory that puts $750K into "online" advertising annually and a couple million into offline advertising.... so yes, it could take lots of $ if you see people like that as competition.
|The vast majority of anyone's 'secret sauce' is on display for the whole world to see. Otherwise 'it ain't working. |
I hear the term "secret sauce" and it makes me shudder - there isn't any such thing as secret sauce! If you want do well in any business/industry you are going to have to work harder, work smarter, or have deeper pockets than the next guy.
I have talked briefly with you (webwork) about your plans/domains before. The key to success online uses one or more of the three things mentioned above and applies to any online venture whether it's a directory or any other type of site. No matter what path you choose the main thing to keep in mind is being successful and keeping off the radar. Your plans as I remember are not to rely on SE traffic which is a major flaw since probably 85% + of people use search engines to find what they are looking for. If you don't want to rely on them for traffic, it is quite simple, you better have deep pockets for advertising online/offline. If your site is nothing but a list of other sites the only people interested are submitters. Mention dmoz to the average person with internet access and you will get nothing but a blank stare – no-one knows about it. The only reason dmoz exists is the editors that work at it because they enjoy it, and the personal satisfaction they get from editing.
Directories in and of themselves are not much to talk about and/or to keep people coming back with return traffic. If you want to dominate a niche you will need content to back it up, covering the topic exhaustively, and frequently updating it. This takes time, tools, or money. What you have to ask yourself is "who is going to return and why" to a directory besides submitters to find out if you listed their site? You need much more than a list of sites for visitors to return. There are directories that are easy to spot if it has been built for short term or long term success - I'm not saying anything for or against the motive. Simply saying if you want long-term success you are going to have to work hard at it or spend the money for others to do the work for you. Shorter term success can be accomplished with the correct tools ;)
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