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DMOZ to receive 10/10 PageRank
Discussions about Google's decision to give top-level PR to DMOZ
sovidiu




msg:491790
 9:08 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's been two days since DMOZ, "the largest human-edited directory" received a 10/10 PageRank from Google, with new categories reorganized and awaiting new Google Rankings. Since Google changed its interface on March the 5th, moving its Directory on a second-level web page (while promoting its Froogle service), most of the people watching this SE's activity were encouraged to think that ODP data used fueling Google Directory's database will soon become obsolete, especially since Google Directory description and category-placement were removed from Google SERPs. Measuring DMOZ as a 10/10 level of importance comes to contradict people's impressions about ODP. Is Google looking for a new web directory or will it still put emphasis on ODP information and PageRank calculations?

 

mbauser2




msg:491791
 9:28 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

most of the people watching this SE's activity were encouraged to think that ODP data used fueling Google Directory's database will soon become obsolete

It's possible that "most of the people watching this SE's activity" are just morons, and I'm being extremely generous by using the word "possible".

Most of what you wrote isn't even logical -- you're trying to extrapolate patterns and derive agendas from unrelated facts. Whether or not Google includes an ODP link on its front page has nothing to do with dmoz.org's PageRank, which has nothing to do with whether the ODP is "obsolete", which has nothing to do with Froogle, etc, etc.

Google doesn't manipulate its algorithm to send secret messagse about its business plans, and the ODP's currency doesn't depend solely on Google.
Google rearranged their front page. Period. Stop. End of Story. Everything else is the just the wishful thinking of dmoz.org's jilted paramours. There is no story here.

steveb




msg:491792
 9:51 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

"most of the people watching"

How would you know?

"It's been two days since"

Thanks for yet another update from planet Zork.

Here on Earth it might be a good idea to start reading the excellent message boards at webmasterworld before stating anti-facts as true.

===

Okay, to be more generous, maybe days = weeks on Zork.

sovidiu




msg:491793
 10:02 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thank you for your elegant messages. It shows that you actually pick your words before speaking and that, afterall, you do know your business. Anyway, I do appreciate your Planet Zork reference and would kindly direct your attention towards StarWars and other playful resources. My previous message was making reference to the new PR given by Google to DMOZ. Accidentally, I do think that a 10/10 PR is discussed upon before getting approved. It would be a bit weird to see a web site that no one in America has ever heard of, to be given a 10/10 PageRank by Google. I am not sure that you do watch and correctly interpret Google's activity, but that makes no difference in an intelligent environment. Naturally, having posted two thousand messages on a forum does not mean that you are always objective and know what you are talking about. The difference is that you like favicon.ico, instead of seeing the big picture. Which, in other words, might explain the lack of customers for your activity, should it not be related to "little green men".

cbpayne




msg:491794
 10:12 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

I do think that a 10/10 PR is discussed upon before getting approved

I don't think you will find much or any agreement for that on planet earth.

sovidiu




msg:491795
 10:19 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

As you wish. Care to justify your opinion?

cbpayne




msg:491796
 10:32 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Care to justify your opinion?

The PageRank algorithm is automated and GG and others from Google have said they don't manually assign PR.

Care to justify your opinion?

sovidiu




msg:491797
 11:04 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

A 10/10 PageRank is an honorific recognision of a web site. Only few of them are given this type of PR (if you happen to count them, you will see that there are around 10-20; at least that's as many as I could find), so there is no way a web site will receive 10/10 PR out of the blue. That's my opinion.

trillianjedi




msg:491798
 11:13 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

That's my opinion.

Fair enough. I don't actually agree with you, but I don't think it actually matters who's right and who's wrong.

PR has become one of the far-less-significant-factors in the google algorithm.

If you're seeing a boost from sites being in DMOZ, it's for reasons other than PR.

TJ

sovidiu




msg:491799
 11:21 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

You are right. I would also suggest that getting visitors and links from web sites located in different regional locations are also a strong point in getting a higher PR, since it makes your web site look like an international establishment, not just an on-line location visited by groups of people located in the same areal. And I am not sure, but I consider that different IP classes that point to your web site can also bring their contribution to your PR calculation.

John_Caius




msg:491800
 11:44 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

343,000 backlinks of PR 4 and above [google.com] probably have more to do with it than some coffee lounge meeting at Google. The 931 shown in that Google search are all PR 8 or 9.

Also msg #8 in this thread [webmasterworld.com].

Itís all natural.

Let's stop this ridiculous conversation. :)

[edited by: John_Caius at 11:48 am (utc) on April 22, 2004]

Genie




msg:491801
 11:47 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Dmoz.org has had a PageRank of 10 in the past. It slipped down to PR 9 a while ago. It went back up to 10 on 8 April when other PR changes became visible.

This is no surprise. The Open Directory is huge. Every category has a link to the 'about Dmoz' page, which also currently has PR 10. That page links to the front page.

Moreover there are hundreds of sites using copies of Dmoz with the proper attribution back to mamma. Every category in the Google Directory has links on it back to the equivalent category in Dmoz and to the 'about Dmoz' page.

percentages




msg:491802
 11:51 am on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

>PR has become one of the far-less-significant-factors in the google algorithm.

Yes.......very true.

Dmoz was PR10 back in 2002, it then fell to PR9 and maybe it has now got back a PR10......it doesn't matter much because PR is now the fifth act on the performance.

The content at Dmoz is now more important than the PR value. That is why it why it has regained some importance.

Chris_D




msg:491803
 12:04 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

[dmoz.org...] here in Sydney Australia is still only a (toolbar) PR9 for me, with 381,000 (I assume, I don't know, and I don't have time to count) >PR4 backlinks.

Sorry - what was the question?

:)

gethan




msg:491804
 12:11 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

I agree with this being due to the algorithm rather than any PR discussion group.

Though anything that any of us post here on WebmasterWorld regarding google is speculation (with the exception of the reps).

It is a possibility that google have manually set the PR of DMOZ - but I think very unlikely.

Luxor1




msg:491805
 12:25 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

If Dmoz PR 10 has been part of algorithm and not some kind of manual interference then why Yahoo has PR 9
consistently for past five -six months? I think it has certainly enough above 4 PR backlinks for it to be 10
(471 000) showing for me although they don't need to be necessary > 4.

sovidiu




msg:491806
 2:08 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Luxor1's message makes a good point. In fact, I would like to invite the people actually interested in accurate data minig to do a search on DMOZ for any keyword.

I did a query for "page rank" and got the "No Open Directory Project results found" message, with an invitation to redirect my search towards Google and its segments (and eventually try my search on Google Directory, which uses the ODP structure - so it's some sort of a search circle, since Google Directory aperiodically updates its database).

Anyway, if searching on DMOZ for "student" or for any other word from the daily vocabulary, one will notice that the results are only presented as ODP categories, and not web sites containing this word. So there is a limited amount of keywords for the DMOZ content (the ones included in the titles of its categories), while for the rest of the worldwide words, one is suggested to try Google. This might also explain the 10/10 PageRank granted to DMOZ.

I still personally belive that maximum PR is given after a short meeting (e.g.: compare the 86,900 backward links to Apple 10/10 with 136,000 bacward links pointing to Microsoft 9/10). Humans do it better.

cbpayne




msg:491807
 2:17 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

>one will notice that the results are only presented as ODP categories

Thats because that is what the search function at DMOZ is supposed to do. DMOZ is a directory, not a search engine!

sovidiu




msg:491808
 3:16 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Evidently, but until DMOZ was ranked with 9/10, the search results were also coming from the web sites included in the directory. After receiving the 10/10, DMOZ has stopped searching through its' database site-descriptions and only started providing results taken from its' categories titles.

Genie




msg:491809
 3:20 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

>only started providing results taken from its categories titles.

That just happened today and is presumably a bug. What does it have to do with the change in PR which happened on 8 April?

John_Caius




msg:491810
 4:21 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

sovidiu - clearly you didn't bother following the link I spent some time looking up for you. Googleguy, who is a Google employee, says:

Q: Are the ODP and Google sites naturally occuring PR10 (PR11 for Google?) or is there some manual intervention for larger sites to ensure they have suitable PR?
A: Itís all natural.

Please stop filling this board with useless speculation.

hutcheson




msg:491811
 4:51 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

>It would be a bit weird to see a web site that no one in America has ever heard of, to be given a 10/10 PageRank by Google.

That would be wierd. Almost as wierd as inviting the Porcine Infernal Arctic Aerial Squadron to perform at the Paris Air Show.

I hate to disparage a good imagination, but it might be better to keep this discussion to things that have actually happened.

sovidiu




msg:491812
 5:33 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Since people seem not to understand what I am stating and obviously endorsing as being my personal opinion, I suggest targeted people (e.g., placed on forums by large companies just to uselessly post messages) to restrain from forwarding insults. I will, however, use this type of information about Google to better promote our web sites. And I do believe that posting a pertinent message on this forum is always accepted. You know, pasting useless ironies about French people has nothing to do with a web master's activity. Much worse, it really settles the difference between professional and amateur. And since PR is a logical, mathematical instrument, there should be no surprise that some of your web sites are lost in 4-5 PageRank. And hutcheson, content is king Ė a.k.a. write "wierd" instead of "weird" and your web site is $null.

steveb




msg:491813
 10:11 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Since people seem not to understand what I am stating"

Meaning yourself.

Pagerank is mathematical. Yahoo's volume of links is not what matters to PR; quality and quantity of the quality matters. Better internal linking matters. There are loads of considerations which you should be trying to understand rather than asserting coffeehouse decisionmaking in black helicopter land.

You obviously don't have much understanding here, so asking questions would be a good idea. For example, despite giving you the benefit of the doubt, the fact of the matter is PR for Dmoz didn't update two days ago. It was more than two weeks ago.

John_Caius




msg:491814
 10:31 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

For the record (and for any other webmasters who aren't clear on how PR works, PR is basically about:

a) number of links to your page

- more links is better, in an additive way. Like donations to a bank account, every little helps but a big donation is better than a small one. Small donations can't drag your total down, just not increase your total by much.

b) PR of each page linking to your page

- if the BBC links to you then it's worth more than Bob's PR 1 Blog linking to you.

c) number of other links on the same page

- the PR that can be transferred to your page is divided by the links on the page. So if yours is the only link then the PR benefit you get is much more than if your link is in a list of 200 other links.

sovidiu




msg:491815
 12:09 am on Apr 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

True, John_Caius. But this leaves less space for a person who wants to extend his web-based business merely by using its intrinsic value.

hutcheson




msg:491816
 12:31 am on Apr 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

sovidui, if you meant by your devious statement to imply that "nobody had ever heard of dmoz.org", then I give you the lie.

if you did not mean that, then your blather about "giving page rank 10 to a site nobody had ever heard of" was irrelevant and misleading, and you worked hard to be misnderstood.

Now, YOUR ignorance of the ODP is clearly great: but it doesn't follow that everyone else's must be.

Caveat: I'm not paid to speak for the ODP. I'm a volunteer, both here and there. It is a privilege and a delight to speak of it, though, from a basis of several years' personal experience.

Chris_D




msg:491817
 1:35 am on Apr 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm still confused by the statement
DMOZ to receive 10/10 PageRank

I still only get toolbar 9 for [dmoz.org...] or [dmoz.org...]

Is DMOZ now a toolbar PR10 - I don't think it is?

steveb




msg:491818
 2:01 am on Apr 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's PR10, except on one or more dataceters (I think 216.239.57.104 is one). Set your hosts file to 216.239.57.98

g1smd




msg:491819
 8:52 pm on Apr 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

References to the current failings of the search function at dmoz.org ignore the fact that several announcements have already been made to say that for the last week or more the search function has been broken due to a corruption in the search database. Hopefully that will be fixed soon. It takes a few days to generate it. In any case, one fact IS true; in general the ODP search should be used to find related categories and not for trying to find individual site listings.

This 33 message thread spans 2 pages: 33 ( [1] 2 > >
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