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Have read the Theme article by Brett, Still Confused

 6:11 pm on May 14, 2000 (gmt 0)

Can someone point me in a directrion to obtain a outline (Step-by-step) on putting together a theme website. Guess I am just not getting the picture here. Thanks



 7:54 pm on May 14, 2000 (gmt 0)

Will that be cash or charge? (duck)

You simply would not believe how many emails I've received over themes. A couple of days last month it was over a hundred. That page on themes was last months most hit page here (more than the index page itself).

I've refrained at getting specific on themes on purpose. Half of my public silence on what is a powerful and popular topic is out of self-preservation (it could open up a blizzard of email, rants, raves, and flames/attacks -- a potentially explosive issue). When you are outfront on an idea, you can be hailed as a hero (Einstein, Armstrong), or shackled in the public square (Galileo, Darwin).

The other half is because the only time that I have ever gotten 'in trouble' with users on such issues is when I tried to get specific on issues that *demand* a general nature. There was a long thread on 'helping, where to draw the line' over there in Search Engine Forums that was a good example of just such a case.

I also, didn't want to stir up the many people who are going to be extinct when the power of themes starts to take hold. From all the specific program authors, to promotion people, to forums, and monthly newsletters - themes could put alot of people out of business if they don't adapt.

In a themes world, cloaking programs are obsolete. What good does it due to cloak a themed site? Cloaking isn't of much value in a theme scheme of things. If you are running a theme'd site with a top ranking page (God help me for saying this), but, you might actually WANT your competition to steal your individual pages. It will be of no value to them and probably make their rankings fall. It isn't a page thing, it is a SITE thing.

Lastly, it is a difficult transition to make from a standard setup site to a themed site. I still can not get Altavista off of the stupid car kick it is on with search engine world. I've been trying since January to get a new theme to stick in alta about sew. Alta thinks the theme here is exotic cars and I get hits on lambos, jags, even a few porche phrases. I've went so far as to delete the pages it is keying on to get it off that theme - no luck. Other sites we've built since dec-feb with a theme'd intent are doing very good.


 2:25 am on May 19, 2000 (gmt 0)

Soooooooo....., let me explain my understanding and let me know if I am on the right track. You want your index page to focus on a (ONE) topic or can you have a couple of similiar topics? I.E. " Ties, Tie clips, Cuff links, Bow ties" Then you buils your second level pages to focus primarily on each topic. Page #1= "Ties" Page #2 "Tie Clips" etc? If this is the case, what about the order page or form. Should you include your topic keywords the title, meta and links on all pages? Or should you focus on each topic keyword only on the same topic page? Thanks Brett


 6:27 pm on May 20, 2000 (gmt 0)

Two ways of doing it. Your main page as a welcome mat page with no keywords, or go the pyramid route. Use the main page as a keyword re-enforcer - include all your major keywords on it. Then use your sub-pages as your tightly focused narrow minded keyword attack.


 8:16 pm on May 20, 2000 (gmt 0)

I happened to have a doorway site (4,000 static pages intro-ing its 'twin' dynamic page) that fell into the themes algo by luck... here's an excerpt from an email 5/20, the question is from me
Q - What were your keywords and search engine when you came across this site?

A "City of _________ __" using Alta Vista. Picked up on hotels etc, yours was number 13 of 3,836,810. (you must have it hooked in about right.)

If you are even close w/ themes, you're going to get rank. Brett mentioned pyramid, that's exactly how this particular site is laid out. USA > 50 States > 3800+ town pages. Key words are repeated thousands of times.

Brett, how did your "skins" come out after that last AV reindex of mp3?


 4:03 pm on May 25, 2000 (gmt 0)

Thanks Brett, that gives me a better idea on the subject. The next question I have is, what kind of density should I have on my main page? Lets say I want to target 5 keywords/phrases? What kind of density percentage on my second level, more focused pages?

Thanks again, websurfer


 5:18 pm on May 25, 2000 (gmt 0)

re:skins, lost that one killer listing on the domain in question, but still picking up sizable traffic from a very broad range of keywords. That site did about 3k referrals from alta yesterday. However, the biggest keyword/phrase combo only had 10 referrals to it. That means the pages are pulling from a more diverse group of kw's. The referral log reports are getting HUGE because there are over 1200 unique referrals (that's the theme thing in action). The traffic isn't what it was from the one big kw I had, but the broader range of kw's is pulling in more visitors (more of those warm fuzzy 'punch that damn monkey' banners to show to unique users).

re: Density, I try to keep my average under 10%. I do enough pages though, that I let some slip up to 15% and quite a few down to 4-5. That gives a good distribution no matter what the algo does.

The main thing is focus, focus, focus. If you are going for multi keywords/phrases on the same page, keep them very close together in density (identicle) around 6-8.

The page size in both stripped html and raw html is also very important. I don't have any data to suggest what is currently optimum, but diversity is key. I try to hit all the combinations of lots of html, little html, large pages, and small pages. Half the battle of getting the se's to fixate on your site is diversity. Sooner or later you will hit something that they like. In that sense, yes content is still the king (not for the sake of the content, but for the sake of having enough diverse food for the engines to eat).


 9:34 pm on May 26, 2000 (gmt 0)

I'm now in slot #2 out of 342,087 on a 2-word phrase. The site is built (roughly/crudely) around themes, multiple domains, and link popularity from those sister domains. I have not (yet) used BL, and will not deploy that until things start slipping badly... a good mechanic knows when to leave something alone. The site still has an old 1x1 (except I use 4x4 --I'm paranoid) link out to a hallway page and all of my domains could easily be cross-matched through whois to the same admin. The domain name does include the keyword, as does the title. I acquired this domain at a later date than my original one, and simply used the same IP (this was over 2 years ago). Guess what? The old url is coming in at #11.

Take a look at the last 20 referrers, I'd say looksmart, google and msn like the set-up, too. I've never paid for placement, these are the old free submits.


 10:11 pm on May 26, 2000 (gmt 0)

way to go rc! Let's here it for themes!

you got me all fired thinking there was a new post over here only to find out it is the same thing you posted at SEF!


 11:14 pm on May 27, 2000 (gmt 0)

re: same as SEF
What can I say? I'm loved in both! (or did JB say "loathed?" ) Actually, I mentioned BL in this forum abd didn't over there. I've noted that there isn't a lot of cross-overs and I want to see if I can keep the themes thing fired up over there.

But, take a look at all the things "wrong" with this site that are supposed to be negative factors in AV placement... hallways, multiple domains, that's what's really important about this post.


 6:01 pm on Jun 16, 2001 (gmt 0)

You are busy at this ideavirus. Brett's articles on themes are at




jeremy goodrich

 2:00 am on Jun 17, 2001 (gmt 0)

Welcome to the forums ideavirus! Cool 'nic'.

Isn't Brett Winters the guy who does that Webpos!t!on software?

Brett Tabke [webmasterworld.com] is the guy who wrote those articles. Coincedentally, the one responsible for both Search Engine World [searchengineworld] and WebmasterWorld [webmasterworld.com].


 3:20 am on Jun 17, 2001 (gmt 0)

Thanks paynt and jeremy-goodrich both of you enlightning me on the topic and giving me the pointers...

Stay Fabulous...!!! :)

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