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Creating sites to build links
A competitor has built websites to use as links...
shawn




msg:418047
 2:28 am on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

I want to first say that I am glad to have found this forum! I have learned alot from folks here.

A competitor of mine has a PR of 5. If I check his site with the google toolbar for backward links, they all are sites that he paid for the domain names and created content for them. He hosts all of these domains( about 50 )under his reseller hosting account so it doesnt cost him alot to do it. It is really obvious he has created these sites to link to his site for PR.

My question is this: This does not seen very ethical; will the Search Engines catch on or is this something that happens alot?

Thanks,
Shawn

 

chiyo




msg:418048
 5:24 am on Feb 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ethical? one persons def of ethical can be so diff from others, that using the term is virtually meaningless.. I think most would say that "lying" is unethical though, and unless they are doing that to surfers or SE's I dont see any ethical problems at all.

In fact we do it ourselves. We had one corporate site and provided news and articles too. As these folders became too large we "upgraded" then to new domains. These info/news domains became over the years quite independent and (imhumbleopinion) respected for their content and info. We began to accept advertising from other same niche uncompetitive advertisers, and content from many who wanted to get their ideas and articles and name known. We still advertise our own original corporate site on thse now stand alone sites and our main site is now 100% devoted to selling and describing our services. Our best referrals now come from the new stand alone sites, and we work on getting the stand alone sites up the top of SERPS, not the actual selling/coporate site. Its taken a long time, and a lot of money, but its long term, and i cant see this as being unethical at all.

It works for us. Produce domains that have good original content related to your business that stand alone - and then link them (carefully - along with other external links to other info sites in the area) to your corporate/selling domain. It lets people know that you know what you are talking about, provides lots of good free info for people, and keeps everybody happy, expect for competitors who dont have the time to do it. But this is just one strategy. Others use PPC, or SEo just for the selling site, affiliates or whatever. All have advantages and disadvantages.

There are problems with cross-linking, and unless the other domains are not well focused with useful original content i dont think this will work med to long term.

Basically these guys are just putting their money into a different promotion method that PPC or paying for referrals. In most cases their ROE (Return on Effort) may well be poor, unless the other sites stand on their own (become portals or news sites, getting other advertising, increasing their value for selling later).

I see this as a very good way of getting recognition for your core business. Ethics only comes into it, for what its worth, when there is some kind of deception involved.

shawn




msg:418049
 6:05 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

I see what your saying. The 50 sites he created do not all follow the theme of his site which is web design.

Maybe Ethical was the wrong word.... What I was wondering is that will get you banned from certain SE's? Will they consider it spam? Will they catch on to 50 2-3 page sites that really do not pertain to web design.

Shawn

[edited by: heini at 6:14 pm (utc) on Feb. 25, 2003]
[edit reason] removed urls as per TOS [/edit]

Nick_W




msg:418050
 6:10 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Why would they? - I can't see anything wrong with this at all.

Your competitor is doing something you are not. Is it working? If so, you might want to do something similar..

Nick

rogerd




msg:418051
 7:00 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Shawn, there aren't too many topics that cause more disagreement than the use of multiple domains. The situation that chiyo describes is natural, each domain has its own content and, no doubt, plenty of independent links. Something like that should never be a problem.

When you get into the realm of cranked-out minidomains, you find disagreement. We know that Google has penalized groups of interlinked, commonly owned domains that have little outside linkage. We also know that nearly identical domains, like keyword-alaska.com, keyword-alabama.com, etc. seem to survive.

In the long run, I'd expect Google's algo to not weight the sort of thing you describe heavily. The two-page domains probably have few legitimate links. In the short run, though, your options are limited. You can try reporting them, but whether Google would even be interested would depend on how spammy the other domains were; it does seem like the main purpose of these other domains is to boost PR from what you describe. You can try copying the strategy, but there is always a possibility of some risk. Or, you can try to get some good, independent links to your site to offset the other guy's self-created link collective.

rogerd




msg:418052
 7:01 pm on Feb 25, 2003 (gmt 0)

Oops, by the way, welcome to WebmasterWorld, Shawn!

shawn




msg:418053
 12:05 am on Mar 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

I really have no interest in "reporting" them. Our page rank and their page rank are identical. I was just curious as to what effects the mass creation of domains would have in the long run. I think he really does it to look like he has more clients than he really does more so than for page rank.

Thank you for your reply Rogerd, you answered my question(s).

mapostel




msg:418054
 10:50 am on Mar 1, 2003 (gmt 0)

Doesn't it all come down to the question whether or not google and other engines are able to determine that a domain is controlled by the same company? Are they able to make whois-queries? I would be surprised (but I am easily surprised as I am just starting to look into these topics.)

Cheers

Matthias

mayor




msg:418055
 4:14 pm on Mar 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Shawn, you can get to PR5 much easier than building a development of 50 farm sites. You can do it just by trading links with a few relevant sites of PR5 or 6. Takes a few hours total work and costs nothing.

I'd love to see my competitors do what your competitor is doing. They would soon be out of business and I would be laughing all the way to the bank.

Chicago




msg:418056
 5:26 pm on Mar 2, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google states, that if you have trouble explaining what you are doing to a competitor than you should be concerned. The answer to your question comes down to redundancy of content. If your competitor is optimizing all 50 sites, without unique content, they will eventually get caught. If they are (as it sounds), creating 50 pages with unique content, they will likely get away with this. I have a client that build's directories on the fly. An example directory is abc-alaska, but another directory is abc-california- in totality there is over 200. The owner wants a link on the bottom of the page for a user to view ALL directories. We went back and forth and back and forth on the topic (is it spam). We decided to do it, and everything is fine, in fact the results are good. Going back to what google states, this business owner is simply trying to inform their users of the other directories that exist (which are free standing). How else can the directory owner accomplish this without have a link to all other directories on there site. This is an example where the business argument is stronger than the perception of spam. Although the directories are similar in structure everything from the URL to the geography and vertical topic are different. I have seen others get away with this for years. Thoughts?

adsoft13




msg:418057
 1:59 pm on Mar 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi,

In fact we DO it in our business. We have very competitive market and as I see 8 of top 10 are just making link farms and have the PR of 6 and 7.

I don't like it at al.And we need "fast" and "not spam" solution. We just have created 20 web sites about 10 - 15 pages each with quality content, which is usefull and which can be attracted to visitor and is related to the topic of our origianl web site. Then we interlink them together and placed links to our site.

Now, 1,5 months after these sites are born - we see a lot of visitors, who leave good comments. We didn't even expect it, and their PRs are from 3 to 5. The PR of our main site is 6, and we see people coming from our these sites. So the idea turns to be wonderfull :)

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