I am training someone to take over the linking for the sites I designed and I'm approving every link until I'm sure she knows what i'm looking for and I'm not giving over control of the site either so I'm having to post the link for link trades.
However i'm staying away from India (I live in the US). There are plenty of people in the USA capable of doing this and enough of our jobs are going overseas already.
No disrespect intended, but outsourcing to link building to non-native speaking countries is insane. Let explain by giving you a real world example. You'all know I've been building links since cavemen walked the earth. Eleven friggin years :) And it's also obvious that I do NOT engage in the granting of outbound links on my site, I do not have a links page, and my site is purely a marketing site for my services.
But I STILL receive on average 3 to 5 link swap emails every day, and it's painfully obvious they were sent from non-native speaking countries "please to link with site to rank yes?"
If these people would take one dang second to look at my site they'd see I'm not a linking prospect for them.
So, if they don't even bother to look at the sites they contact, and if they send incomprehensible email, all that happens is linking gets a bad rap, when it's actually morons who don't know what they are doing.
Email link requests work if you do them right. I've obtained at least 25 links this week for some <snip> content, using nothing but email to request those links.
I'm sorry to be so passionate, but it really angers me when my industry gets a bad name because of idiots
with email bots. To spam me of all people with a link request email is so dumb it's funny.
[edited by: engine at 1:47 am (utc) on June 23, 2005]
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i agree, i've been spammed plenty by non-native speaking countries link builders but at the same time there has to be some sort of reputable outsourcing in some countries, such as India. I get spammed just as much by American SEO sites that have no idea what my site name is when i reply back.
I'm just trying to render any kind of information for both sides to make an intelligent decision. Price is always a factor but i will not put my sites reputation online due to spam or lack of reciprocation and use of proper English. I am mostly trying to hear of experiences or companies used in the past to help my decision process.
[edited by: engine at 1:48 am (utc) on June 23, 2005]
[edit reason] Specifics [/edit]
Outsource or get some guy to do it for you inhouse. You only have 2 choices. I am not keen on non-native speaking countries they usually end up with cheating in one way or another. Like today, we added about 50 links and then the guy said he could not link back because of some weird reason. What an idiot, he thinks we are going to leave the links there for free? He should have told us that before we put all his links up. What a numbskull. Non-native speaking countries always try and get stuff for free. It is their culture. I lived there for 18 months so speaking from experience.
[edited by: engine at 1:49 am (utc) on June 23, 2005]
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|You'all know I've been building links since cavemen walked the earth |
I didn't know that. But then again, I've never heard of you either.
Let's not get too specific, thanks.
Outsourcing linking can help, however, it's important that a clear plan/strategy and expectations are agreed before commencing.
It does pay to have a native speaking link hunter so that they fully understand the nature of the sites in question.
If the business offering the linking service cannot meet the expectations, move on and find another.
My apologies for not reading/following the TOS in my previous post. Having been online since before forum software existed, I didn't realize using your own name was a bad thing. <sigh>
Here's a technique I've used for outsourcing of link dev.
If a client asks me about outsourcing link building, I first ask them if they live in a town that has a university. Most do.
Tell them to offer a paid internship to a grad student in the college of communication, or library science, or bus admin, for one semester, 10 hours per week. Or call it a practicum and don't pay them, but the quality you'll get if you don't pay will rival that you find in India.
Once the client hires the right intern, I give the intern a couple hours of intense training via phone and IM, and provide some tracking tools and a good pep-talk :) Most college kids understand linking immediately, innately. They've literally grown up with the web. Most 22 year-olds had personal web pages at Geocities 7 years ago when they were 15.
I know this works becasue I've done it at least 25 times over the past ten years (that's TEN), and I have yet to see it NOT work, if it's set in motion properly early on.
You're a hero to the University and to the department where your student came from, as you just provided a real-world paid experience for them.
You can issue a press release locally telling people how you just launched an Internet marketing internship program with the University of whatever.
If the student doesn't do good work, it's not the end of the world, because there's a time limit of one semester to the internship. If they do great work, simply renew the internship, or heck, hire them outright.
ew - now aka braincloud
OK, not everyone from <snip> speaks like that and certainly if the person you are hiring for link exchanging does, then don't hire him. Hire someone that understands and can communicate in English effectively.
[edited by: martinibuster at 4:56 pm (utc) on June 27, 2005]
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I have outsourced to guys in <offshore> twice mainly because of economics. I let the first team have free reigns and they did a resonable job after 6 months (100 related links). They boast of being able to obtain 100s of links but I spent a great deal of time denying links and the deal ended up going bad.
For the second team I broke the project down. I mined 3000 sites and let them screen them/collect email addresses. We just started the contacting part of the campaign and in the last two days they've collected 2 pr 5 links and about 30 PR4/PR3 50 PR 2. Granted... they probably wouldnt of done it without guidance. If these people just knew how to use Arelis and Seo Elite, they have the potential of doing really well on their own.
I suggest breaking the project down and outsourcing cheap. Be sure to explain in great detail what you are looking for. Make sure you hold their hand or look over their shoulder on the first campaign.
[edited by: martinibuster at 4:51 pm (utc) on June 27, 2005]
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braincloud, that's a very interesting way of handling this. What do you think would be the total internal cost of a single link exchange, whether outsourced or inhouse?
Somewhere like the Phillies or Malaysia would be good places to outsource as the level of English is good
I'm currently using someone "overseas", I won't actually name the country, but most tech companies outsource their support there ;)
His initial efforts did have a bit of a language problem. I've spent quite a bit of time working with him and giving him the exact language I want him to use. I also get copies of every email he sends out and the replies. He's not perfect, still sends out the occasional poorly worded e-mail, but all in all I would say it's working out pretty well. He's aquired quite a few good links and seems to have a good understanding now of the kind of sites to go after.
It has been a lot of work to get there though.
I've had really terrible experience outsourcing link development overseas. I've tried three separate countries. I've had ostensibly qualified people. One who managed several people before, another who did SEO for a living, and another an engineering student.
None could figure out what to do after hours of training and chatting. And the laziness factor was remarkable. I went out of my way to find people who wouldn't engage in link schemes.
I've decided the only way to go is with someone local who I can meet face-to-face and really see that they are connecting with the task at hand.
outsourcing it not itself a bad idea, but only when u see you have some quality services coming out of it...
it has to be a planned process if you ever wanna go for outsourcing your link building.
for it is your website that we are talking, which with one wrong move can get banned sine die...
We do our link building in an offshore location but we own the company ostensibly to get links for our own sites.
Last week we introduced a bonus for the amount of links people get. Productivity increased 200%. Now people do not go for smoke breaks, toliet breaks, food breaks.....heh. You can control the amount of links that you get to your sites just need a financial incentive.
You can also get all kinds of link schemes hatched by having incentives. It's a very dicey business outsourcing something like this if you don't have strict controls over it.
And incentivizing by the link increases productivity but greatly increases the tomfoolery that could be done.
I don't have a problem outsourcing. I do it for tech and design work. But link development has been a bigger problem. I wouldn't have believed it until I tried it.