homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.197.15.196
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Home / Forums Index / Marketing and Biz Dev / Link Development
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: martinibuster

Link Development Forum

This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >     
Hosting Company considers my link requests as SPAM
and they are threatening to close my account
sdani

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 7:05 pm on Jun 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

My link requests are very targetted. The person had posted his email address on his web page, I sent an email to that address to request a link. I also provided my postal address and an email address where they can request to be removed from my mailing list.

The receipent reported my email as spam and <my hosting provider> agrees with that and they are threatening me that they would close my account.

Is link request really spam?

Have you faced this problem with your hosts?

What do you do in those cases?

Thanks
SD

[edited by: martinibuster at 7:15 pm (utc) on June 29, 2004]
[edit reason] Removed specifics [/edit]

 

alika

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 7:45 pm on Jun 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

We've experienced this when we were starting in the late 90s. We contacted several complementary sites and requested for an exchange of links. Lo and behold, they reported us instead to our hosts and ISP as spammers.

Good thing our webhost and ISP are level headed, so we explained to them that our intention was not to spam. We were advised that the next time we send these types of email, make it clear in the email that this is a one-time email only and they will not be added into a mailing database.

Since then, we no longer actively requested for links. We stopped contacting other sites to request for links. The threat and hassle of account termination is not worth it in this paranoid world.

We simply focused on developing our content, believing that others will recommend and link to you if you have quality content. We just added a "request for link" form on our site for those who want to exchange links with us.

Magnum_PI

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 7:27 am on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

When you sent the link requests did it include specific information about their site, or was it all a template?

The reason I ask is I am more apt to respond favorably if the e-mail has an indication that a real human visited and reviewed the site.

Just a thought.

percentages

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 9:10 am on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

I get about 500 automated link requests per day. Initially they came from a published website email address, now most of them are coming from the domain registry email address.

99% are automated spam, and those senders are all spammers IMHO!

If you can't be bothered to review the site personally and send a personal email requesting a link then you deserve to be closed down.

We can all write a script to search for our most likely link partners and then spam them to death, but why would any of us want to do that?

If you want a link from me you better show that you have been to the site, you appreciate why it would be a good partner for you and you have included a number where I can phone you.

Without all of the above you go straight into my trash can, and if I got out of bed the wrong side that day I might just report you as a spammer!

sdani

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 10:45 am on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

I exchanged few emails with my web hosting company and they said that they understand what I am doing. We have a footer in our email, which read like this:

"If you do not wish to receive any emails from us, please send an email to info@domain.com and write "unsubscribe" in the subject line, and we will
not send you any more emails."

The hosting company said this was the most concerning piece in the email.

I understand their concern, and we immediately took it out. Now we are basically mentioning that this is a ONE time email only, as suggest by alika.

Thanks everyone.
SD

alika

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 3:36 pm on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

"If you do not wish to receive any emails from us, please send an email to info@domain.com and write "unsubscribe" in the subject line, and we will not send you any more emails."

That would really put you in hot water. In our emails before, we even made sure that we get the right contact info from the website and checked their site policies re requesting for link. Many replied favorably, except for this one person who reported us.

Funny thing is, after a couple of years, she emailed us requesting for a link to her new site and asking if we could help her promote the site (we are in the same niche). Well, what comes around goes around. No, we did not report her for spamming, but we made sure that she totally understands in no uncertain terms that she and any of her websites are not welcome in our site.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 4:58 pm on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>we are in the same niche...

Hmmm... I wonder how much of this reporting has to do with competitiveness? You know, reporting a competitor (or perceived competitor) for spam to knock them out of competition.

alika

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 5:21 pm on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

possibly true, martinibuster ...

She was vicious - reporting us not only to our ISP and web host, but also to SpamCop. And SpamCop then (I don't know now) had a very narrow definition of spam. We sent emails back and forth with SpamCop, and their argument was that anything not asked or expected by the recipient is spam -- even if it is a legitimate business proposition request.

That was not a pleasant experience. I think the safest way to solicit for links is to just go to the site you want to trade links with and use their Add URL form or Contact Us form. You never know who you will encounter in this wild jungle called the Web.

bakedjake

WebmasterWorld Administrator bakedjake us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 5:26 pm on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

Guys, move to a host that considers its customers more important than SpamCop.

You will not get anywhere by arguing with SpamCop or any of the other anti-spam zealots; they are not reasonable people and will not listen to any sort of reason from you. They have their own definition of what is spam and what is not, and you will not change that.

Find a host that doesn't condone spam, but one that won't jump at the whims of SpamCop without thorourgh investigation.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 6:55 pm on Jun 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>Find a host that doesn't condone spam, but one that won't jump at the whims of SpamCop...

That's good advice. Unfortunately, a host provider's attitude and policy toward frivolous spam reports is generally not a consideration, but perhaps it should be.

sdani

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 3:58 am on Jul 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Now - its my competitor who has problem with my emails :)

I got following email:

"It has been brought to our attention that ****xx Inc. has been sending large amounts of unsolicited commercial email to competitor.com users by systematicaly collecting addresses posted
online.

Please stop spamming competitor.com users.

We wish you the best of luck with your business, but we hope you'll achieve that by building a useful service, rather than by continuing to engage in unethical online business practices -- something that
ultimately ends up harming your reputation."

Does anyone on this board see this as "unethical" online business practice?

I am sure they are worried. They exist since 1996, and our technology is comparable to theirs.

rj87uk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 9:50 am on Jul 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

Would you all consider an email like this spam?
(-start email--)

Hi,

I was looking at your site and thought a link to my site could help your viewers as we only offer Information, about [subject] and your viewers would find this interesting and useful!

Please let us know if you are interested, (end email)

--

So would you say this is spam?

RJ

Leosghost

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 10:06 am on Jul 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

yep...I had to pay to down load it ..If I didn't ask for it. it's Spam....

This said I also agree with bakedjake which is why I wouldn't report you ...

I would report the people who send me stuff emails about "size" ( I did think of sending them back a jpeg of the "item" with a ruler along side and alt text of "where's the problem"....'parrently thats illegal and my ISP can ban me )...funny old world..

rj87uk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 1:07 pm on Jul 1, 2004 (gmt 0)

So in general how do you get links if its new etc

it is a funny old world.... lol

dirkz

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 11:17 am on Jul 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

> Does anyone on this board see this as "unethical" online business practice?

As stated before, if you automate it it comes close.

AW_Learner

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 12:45 am on Jul 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yep un-requested email sucks and is unethical. But all those drive-by downloads and spyware/adware/scumware is wonderful! They deserve Millions and Billions of Dollars in Investment Capital and to go Public. And everyone loves getting un-requested AOL CD's in the mail. But let's lock up all those pesky unethical email spammers. We need more prisons.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 3:49 am on Jul 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

The original post states that they sent targeted email to websites who have reciprocal link pages and are soliciting them.

Therefore, what is disturbing is that this person was going about the normal course of business in an acceptable manner and was unjustly accused.

This outcome is something to consider when making link requests.

digitalv

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 4:30 am on Jul 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Sometimes it doesn't hurt to pick up the phone. I get e-mails on an almost DAILY basis from "people" asking to exchange links with me. Some of them are obvious mass mailings, but others look very genuine and the only way I can tell they're not real is because they end up at like privacy@mydomain.com and other mailboxes where a human requesting a link wouldn't send such a message.

I've always found that when you really want to get somewhere with someone you pick up the phone and call them. E-Mail is the lazy method of communicating ... any e-mail I receive about my site I consider junk and toss it. I don't support B.S. organizations like Spamcop, but if I did I would probably have forwarded your mail to them with all of the others.

We were advised that the next time we send these types of email, make it clear in the email that this is a one-time email only and they will not be added into a mailing database.

That's odd they would suggest that considering that I see more SPAM with that line in it than legit messages. The way I see it, legitimate messages shouldn't need to tell people they're not spam.

sit2510

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 11:53 am on Jul 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>> Would you all consider an email like this spam?
(-start email--)
Hi,

I was looking at your site and thought a link to my site could help your viewers as we only offer Information, about [subject] and your viewers would find this interesting and useful!

Please let us know if you are interested, (end email)

--

So would you say this is spam?

=============================

Yes, because it looks very similar to hundreds and thousands of other spam e-mails.

deejay

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 12:09 pm on Jul 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

"If you do not wish to receive any emails from us, please send an email to info@domain.com and write "unsubscribe" in the subject line, and we will not send you any more emails."

I see you've already identified it, but this alone in the email would set bells ringing.

The phrasing indicates by default that they have been placed on a mailing list... one they obviously didn't subscribe to themselves.

I wouldn't include a comment like that in an email to a friend. I wouldn't include a comment like that in an email to a webmaster offering comment on their site. And I certainly wouldn't include it in a link request. In fact the only place I DO see that phrasing.. is on newsletter subscriptions and spam.

As has also been mentioned, if your email looked at all like a form letter, that's going to mark you out as well.

Unfortunately, it sounds like you painted a big red "X" on your forehead.

deejay

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 12:19 pm on Jul 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi,

I was looking at your site and thought a link to my site could help your viewers as we only offer Information, about [subject] and your viewers would find this interesting and useful!

Please let us know if you are interested, (end email)

RJ87UK - if you sent it to one of my sites, probably yes, I'd discard it as spam. I have linking policies and request forms on the site... if you don't use them you better have a darn interesting request to get me to look.

The request above wouldn't do it. You don't mention my site by name (suggestive of mass mailing). You don't mention your site or give me a link to follow (I haven't got time to email you back and ask for your URL). You don't suggest where on my site you would like to see your link, given a suggested site description or anything to peak my interest.

Don't expect me to work for you unless you're gonna pay me.

johnser

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 12:56 pm on Jul 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Use best practice as outlined above but send out using a free ISP account and don't overdo it.

deejay

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 7:23 am on Jul 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

:) Johnser - a free isp account is the very first marker I use to direct mail to the rubbish bin.

The email domain needs to match the site domain, unless it is clearly from an SEO or other working on behalf of the site, in which case I do look at their site as well.

johnser

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 10:21 am on Jul 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Deejay - You are correct - free ISP accounts are normally a dead-giveaway for spam.

However, we find that if our "reply" email is links@client.com and the client name appears in addition to having a direct dial phone number listed (as well as the SEO name), we get a good response with no complaints.

We've also manually checked their site for a name / custom info etc.

Main purpose of the free ISP account is to use their outbound email servers. We use our own for inbound email.

We started doing this after a major US host (who very many WW people use & recommend) threatened us because they had 1 complaint from 1,000 emails sent. They said what we were doing was "almost spam". It was actually best practice manual link-building.... Ifs theres any better alternatives, please share ;)

J

Leosghost

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 11:43 am on Jul 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

I just ( today ) received a "linkback" request from a "scraper directory " ..I kid you not guys ...

"We have included a link to your domain ******** in our directory please visit us at ******** "( "scraper" ..loaded with adsense! )"if you like our site please can you place a link back to us from your site" ...

chutzpah!

deejay

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 8:33 pm on Jul 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

*ROFL* Leosghost... I have one word for you:

Googlebomb.

But you wouldn't really want that sort of language on your site.

Leosghost

WebmasterWorld Senior Member leosghost us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 10:41 am on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm thinking of doing it in same color as background ;)

rj87uk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 8:01 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

lol

I had this guy email me saying CONGRATZ!

we love your site and added it at "*"

What would you like us to write about YOUR SITE...

Please add us and we wont take it off...

lol :D

richlowe

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 9:25 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

To put in my 2 cents, unless a web site clearly indicates link requests are acceptable I would consider them as spam. I receive hundreds of exchange requests every month, and all of them get automatically trashed. These requests are clearly unsolicated and completely meet the definition of spam.

I don't support B.S. organizations like Spamcop

I have to jump in here and defend spamcop. My wife and I were receiving thousands of spam emails every single day. She finally came over to me, slammed down a hundred or so printed out copies of spam emails and told me to fix it now. Or else. And when she gets that look in her eyes, well, I just do what I'm told.

I signed us up for spamcop and our spam problem just disappeared.

From a user point of view, there is no better service than spamcop. It just works, is very configurable and after some whitelisting I get zero false positives.

I found their service to be far better than any other spam filtering system I've ever seen.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 1694 posted 7:19 pm on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

...unless a web site clearly indicates link requests are acceptable I would consider them as spam.

Well, I'm not too sure about that. If there is no reciprocal link pages, then sure. Consider this:

If someone is sitting on the sidewalk with a cup full of coins before them, implicit in the situation is that they accept alms.

Likewise, if I come across a website with a reciprocal links page, and absent a clear indication that link requests are unacceptable, it is implicit that you are interested in exchanging links.

It is grossly unfair to put up a reciprocal links page and assume that webmasters will read your mind that you aren't interested in receiving link exchange emails. If you have a links page, absent a clear statement saying you don't accept link requests, the assumption will always be that you are open to receiving link exchange emails.

Anybody have any thoughts on that?

This 37 message thread spans 2 pages: 37 ( [1] 2 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Marketing and Biz Dev / Link Development
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved