| 7:14 am on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Personally, I wouldn't say it's that much faster than IE. Maybe there are a few little areas in which it beats the opposition in speed terms, but they are fairly insignificant in my opinion. It does feel more responsive in general, though.
Support for the latest standards, on the other hand, is way better than IE, and even better than Opera. There's also proper theming support, and a capability for extensions and customization that seems to be better than anything else out there.
Just to pick a few examples that I use:
* The Adblock extension can block even downloading of pretty much anything (including flash), and can kill something as a one-off with the swipe of a mouse. Even a simple CSS ruleset blocks just about everything with no effort.
* There is a choice of mouse-gesture extensions, or none at all for people who hate them
* There's a lot more flexibility than Opera for toolbar customization. I have everything on one toolbar (alongside the menu), and just a few buttons.
Anyway, it's not perfect (the 0.8 release still has some bugs in the new download manager, for example), but there are plenty of reasons why I like it. Maybe somebody else here might too. There's a web page that gives some reasons to switch [mozilla.org].
Oh, and don't forget to check Burning Edge [squarefree.com] for updates. Most nightlies since December are more advanced than the 0.8 release.
| 9:56 am on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I have to agree that after getting used to .7 I imediately noticed a significant speed increase when I installed .8. And .8 did seem faster than IE as well.
| 10:08 am on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Hello all from a newbie:
I started using Firefox 0.8 about a week ago, and
I'm very happy with it! My previous browser
(Netscape 4.7) would crash my system 2 or 3 times
a nite, especially if I was backing out of pages
too fast. I love the ad blocking extention too.
One quirk. PLEASE advise if anyone found a fix:
My Logitech thumbwheel mouse has a red wheel in
place of the middle click button. On all other
Apps, each click (detente) as I rotate it will
jump maybe 3-4 lines of text in a large document.
In Firefox ONLY, it jumps almost an entire page.
I have clicked all over Hades and found the same
complaint but no real fix.
Any help very much appreciated!
| 10:09 am on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Speed of the browser is indeed much better.
It's also very pleasing that it manages to display A LOT of site's as they were intended. Even a lot of site's that were only created for IE (I hate it when people do that).
Downside is the useability of the browser.
A LOT needs to be done to the user interface, it's not consistant and some popup menu's simply got too much options in it.
It's also not consistent through the app, this is probably caused by multiple people working on it and each one doing what that person wants.
The popup-killer is a bit to aggressive: Opera lets you choose "only popups I requested". Firefox requires to disable the popupkiller for the entire site before it allows any popups.....
Don't get me wrong, it displays very nice and is very fast and is a nice piece of work!
It just needs work on the user interface.
| 12:18 pm on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I agree with DoppyNL - I've used both, but I still prefer the interface feel of Opera. (I particularly like Operas support for a full MDI (not just tabs), which allows you to display the contents of one tab next to another etc. Very useful when quoting from threads).
Not sure about the difference in speed. Opera is also much faster than IE. Anyone done a scientific comparison?
|My previous browser (Netscape 4.7) would crash my system 2 or 3 times a nite |
LOL - yeah well this must be a revelation to you if you were using using NN4.7 - have you noticed loads of websites that suddenly look much nicer? Why on earth did you stick with 4.7 for so long?
|Support for the latest standards, on the other hand, is way better than IE, and even better than Opera. |
Really? Opera has always been pretty good on standards. Anyone got a comparison chart, I'd be particularly interested in its CSS support.
| 12:36 pm on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>Opera is also much faster than IE. Anyone done a scientific comparison?
I have to confess, I'm baffled by references to speed and browsers. I've got a slew of them, and all of them but Nyetscape open instantly when I click. Nyetscape burps, scratches, then loads. Surfing from site to site and page to page all the other browsers render in a blink unless there's an error in the code somewhere.
So, I'm wondering, how are you measuring this speed difference? Or is all this talk about speed the same load I hear about the difference in processors that are relatively close, you know, in order to test them they have to make the processors perform bignum calculations to find that one processor is milliseconds faster than the other one.
Just wondering if the difference in browser speed is something that can be measured with a stopwatch or a sundial, or do you need some sophisticated measuring device? ;) How do you know if the server is sending the same page at the same speed every time? What if there's a burp somewhere between hops? Juss wondering, because all the browsers I have go "click blam".
| 12:46 pm on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Its probably a lot more noticable on a dialup connection, but even on ADSL there is definitely a speed difference in terms of the time taken between entering an address to looking at the completely loaded page.
On ADSL it is often just a matter of a few of seconds between IE and Opera/Firefox. However Opera and Firefox also win on the 'perception of speed' issue as both will usually put something on the screen as soon as possible.
| 12:48 pm on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
>>matter of a few of seconds between IE and Opera/Firefox
That's what I'm not seeing I guess, I don't have a browser on my desktop that takes more than a second to open and render a page unless the page is rather large. Seconds you say?
| 1:15 pm on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Yep, I just tried opening an uncached site (bp.com) in Opera and IE. Opera took around 3 seconds, IE took closer to 9. Subsequent pages were typically around 2 or 3 seconds faster.
Opera (and Firefox as well I think) uses HTTP1.1 with persistent connections, chunking and pipelining. IE doesn't.
I guess you may not see the difference if you are using a very powerful kick-a$$ desktop machine with a seriously fast connection, but on my 1Ghz laptop with a 512Kbps ADSL connection there is definitely a marked difference. Even more so if I'm forced to use a 56K dial-up.
| 6:15 pm on Mar 17, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|The popup-killer is a bit to aggressive: Opera lets you choose "only popups I requested". Firefox requires to disable the popupkiller for the entire site before it allows any popups..... |
Hmmm. That's interesting; I have no problem opening requested popups (by clicking a link, that is).
I've found FireFox much faster than IE or Netscape, particularly when the user.js file has been tweaked a bit. And I'm on a fairly fast broadband connection. Opera seems to be equally fast, perhaps a little faster on some pages, but not enough that I'm willing to deal with the decreased usability.
What I love most about FireFox is how customizable it is. Extensions, user files, themes, on and on it goes. Want a browser custom-made for you? Just grab FireFox! :)
| 12:35 am on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Thanks for the insperation folks. This good discussion got me beyond procrastination, and on to both Opera and Firefox. We installed both today, and with just a quick try I like Firefox best. Time will tell.
| 1:30 am on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I should learn to be a tad more specific: I have NO CHOICE but to use 56k dial-up. Cable modem hub is 40 miles away, and unless 100 of us here (there AREN'T 100 of us here!) want to fork over $2500 each, we will NEVER have cable. Ditto anything else in the way of broadband except for sat-band, which is just too pricey right now for us (including my husband's tv - um, this is practically the only place in the lower 48 we CANNOT get tv.... due to the 10,000 foot mountain right above us - sat-band upgrade would cost about $160/month.)
So anyway, on IE6+ a graphics-heavy page will take many many seconds to load - up to 15 or so - even with "optimized" graphics. Same page on Firefox FINISHES in about 3 seconds. I call that WAY faster, and that makes me a really happy person.
I haven't tried the extensions etc. yet. Was trying just to change the theme, and it doesn't want to - anyone have any idea why? Said it installed, but isn't offered in the Themes section of the Options menu....
Edit: changed from install to just download then manual install - works fine that way!
[edited by: vkaryl at 2:08 am (utc) on Mar. 18, 2004]
| 1:34 am on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Larryhat: my MS optical wheel mouse scrolls just the one line at a time (I don't even want it to do that - I want a plain ol' double-click out of it! Told it to do that but it doesn't want to.... may have to set the cat onto it! *laughing*)
Maybe just a Logitech problem? Have you checked their website for know issues, etc?
| 9:06 am on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I checked all over the Firefox pages. Others have also
noted the problem, but nobody had a solution that I
could find. I was hoping somebody here might, though
this may well be the wrong place to ask.
I don't want to change any Logitech/mouse settings,
that will only screw up all my OTHER applications.
It is Firefox ONLY that magnifies the scrolling for
each click of the wheel as it turns.
Thanks for the input.
| 12:13 pm on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I think there are extensions for FireFox that allow you to customize how the mouse wheel works. I use a Microsoft optical TrackBall, and haven't had any problems using the wheel to scroll.
| 6:53 pm on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I didn't think I could love a browser until I installed Firefox. It took me about 2 weeks to get it setup exactly how I like it, but I am much more productive now with all the cool things that it can do. A few suggestions for programmers/SEOs:
-Install a bunch of different search engines in your search box
-setup keywords for your bookmarks. For example, you can make your bookmark for webmasterworld.com have a keyword of "w" (or whatever you want it to be). To access the site, simply type w into the location bar!
-learn the keyboard shortcuts - this is where the real power comes in. I use Ctl+L, Ctl+K most often
-Check out the extensions - there are some great tools for web programmers and designers
| 8:40 pm on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Have you tried the "Find as you Type" feature? It's great for anyone who likes to work with the keyboard rather than the mouse, and I'm not sure I've seen it on any browser except those in the Mozilla series.
| 9:35 pm on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I did try that, and its pretty neat, but sometimes weird. If you accidently type a letter, the browser will jump around. Also, I think it only searches links. Anyone found this feature useful and/or productive?
| 10:26 pm on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I use find-as-you-type sometimes and find it useful. You can set it to search all the text of the page in the options, under "Advavnced."
| 7:20 am on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|I've been using FF for almost a month now and I'm totally hooked. Speed isn't really much of an issue, on a p4 2.4, with cable broadband, IE and FF seem pretty close.|
Only issues so far:
php BBSes can be a bit glitchy, for some unkown reason (it'll mark all posts as read after reading one post, randomly log me out... I think its a cookie issue but its only happening on php based boards). Anyone else experienced this?
NG: ok, newgrounds is mostly juvenile crap, but sometimes juvenile crap is exactly what I need. That site works for a while, but eventually, after 2 or three movie views, FF will go into a deathspin.
The ENTER cheat: This is something that's only ever worked in IE (not Moz or Op). If you hold down the enter key, then mouse-click on a button, you can do a rapid-repeat click effect on that button. Its kinda a hack for spoofing certain aspects of certain sites, I'm not really interested in explaining where and why I use it, but its very, VERY useful on occassion. Can't do it in FF.
Overall, FF is up 99% of the time for me. Moz for the odd php based BBS or heavy flash site like newGrounds, and IE so I can cheat at certain things.
| 10:36 am on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I don't particularly want this thread to turn into a 'my browser is better than yours' thing, but with all this Firebird evangelising I feel the need to redress the balance a little.
30 Days to becoming an Opera Lover [tntluoma.com] is well worth a read and his discussion on Mozilla vs Opera [tntluoma.com] is also good.
I like them both, they are excellent browsers and I'm pretty sure that if it wasn't for certain companies illegally integrating their browser into the OS, Opera and Firefox would be ruling the roost right now.
| 11:24 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Integrating the browser into the OS could prove to be M$es downfall. It creates such horrific security issues. It was actually what drove me to Moz in the first place, and now on to FF.
As people get more savvy, they'll realize they could become 99.9% immune to all the virus and trojan outbreaks by downloading a free browser and mail client that works better than IE and OutLook anyway.
And the only reason I don't mention Opera is because I've never used it, though I've heard great things about it.
| 11:38 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Actually, I spent the last couple of days browsing with Opera (FINALLY got it to download - from FIJI or someplace! Sheesh....)
Anyway, it doesn't suit me as well as Firefox does. It's also not as fast - while this machine is 2.6 gig or something, my dial up is just that, and speed becomes a real issue.
Firefox it is....
| 1:41 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I go back and forth between Opera and FireWhateverItsNameIsThisMonth. :) There are features each has that I wish the other had. It seems to me that Opera supports keyboard-only use very well, with one-letter commands ("P" for print-preview, or "A" to hop from link to link, for example) that are very handy. It supports the "find as you type" if you type a period first, and can also search just links or the full text.
For me, for Firefox to approach the usefulness of Opera I have to add several extensions, but those extensions are pretty powerful. One of the reasons that I've delayed upgrading to 0.8 is that I'm waiting for all of my favorite extensions to work with the new version.
| 2:23 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)|
| 4:54 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)|
I've been looking all over, but I can't find the wheels on my version of Firefox. Do I need to upgrade?
In Firefox ONLY, it jumps almost an entire page.
Scrolling and password manager stink in Firefox. It's not just the mouse wheel that causes problems. If I scroll using the arrows, it jumps all over erratically. No support whatsoever for scrolling with the touchpad on my laptop. There was some other bug I was having and it turns out it's been on the Bugzilla buglist since early early versions of Mozilla despite lots of noise. That said, I almost cry when I have to use IE now. Used Opera for a while, but never really grokked it.
this is practically the only place in the lower 48 we CANNOT get tv
We must be neighbors. No TV, no cell phone, a couple of scratchy radio stations, no cable, no DSL. We do have 256K dual ISDN (actually technically quad I guess, since ISDN lines are always paired) but it's pricey.
| 8:04 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)|
Just noticed this over the past coupla days. For some reason, FireFox and ZoneAlarm get into a fistfight from time to time, and the only way I can fix it is to close them both down, start ZA first then FF. Anyone else have this problem?
| 12:10 am on Mar 25, 2004 (gmt 0)|
|We must be neighbors. No TV, no cell phone, a couple of scratchy radio stations, no cable, no DSL. We do have 256K dual ISDN (actually technically quad I guess, since ISDN lines are always paired) but it's pricey. |
I'm in far southwestern Utah, closer to Las Vegas than to SLC. We live under the highest part of a 10,000 + foot mountain which just happens to be the largest laccolith in the world (unfinished granite upthrust during a mega-volcanic disturbance millions of years ago - solidified ash actually) so there's some magnetic-interference problems as well as the mountain itself.... and our phone lines are at least 20 years old so dial-up isn't particularly good because of both complications. Cell phone works down by the church - where I have a direct line-of-sight to the cell array on another mountain. Only hope is sat-band, and I just can't afford it yet.
|Just noticed this over the past coupla days. For some reason, FireFox and ZoneAlarm get into a fistfight from time to time, and the only way I can fix it is to close them both down, start ZA first then FF. Anyone else have this problem? |
I don't have problems with ZA and anything on my machines. It's probably the single most well-behaved program I own!