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Firefox - the most annoying browser in use?
ergophobe

WebmasterWorld Administrator ergophobe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 9:47 pm on Dec 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Heh heh, that should attract some readers.

Let's just agree that Firefox has it's plusses. Visiting my folks over the holidays I was forced to use IE and it was unpleasant. Firefox has been my default browser since back when it still had other names.

More and more, though, I find it the most cumbersome and annoying browser I've ever used for the end user. Granted, NS4 and IE* are far more annoying for the developer. Even as an end user, I find that Firefox has really two things that recommend it to me

1. tabbed browsing (but I can get that with Opera or with IE via something like Maxthon or Crazy Browser).

2. The numerous developer extensions - developer toolbar, Venkman debugger, things like that which most end users don't care about. Judging from the broken pages all over the place, neither do a healthy number of developers.

My biggest gripe is the terrible tendency to lock up when reading PDFs. I have long noticed this, but it has become a real sore point since losing my high-speed connnection. Now I wait forever for PDFs and Firefox trips all over itself trying to handle them.

So my gripes not in the least in brief....

- freezes up when loading a pdf (much much longer hesitation than IE - as in an order of magnitude or two). Then, after showing the first page, if you scroll way down to an unloaded section of the PDF, the whole thing freezes up until the PDF gets loaded to that point. If you've already hit the "stop" button once, it thinks it *is* stopped so you can't even use that to stop the loading. Very frustrating on a slow connection. My browser is stopped up like that as I write this (on Wordpad since, of course, Firefox is stuck) and I can't even look at the content in the other tabs because the whole thing is frozen until it downloads the PDF to the point that I scrolled to. I can't even close the browser. On some occasions I've resorted to shutting down the internet connection and reconnecting. I suspect that PDFs are not becoming more common, but since losing the high-speed connection, it seems like every third page is a PDF - or at least 1/3 of the time I spend waiting for things to load is spent waiting for a PDF.

- many problems with copy and paste. It often doesn't work with the CTRL-C/CTRL-V sequences and I have to right click and select from the menu. It's the only program I have that does this and FF does it so often I don't even try to use keyboard sequences for copy and paste. I often find the same thing is true of CTR-T to open another tab. I often have to click it multiple times before the tab opens.

- sometimes a folder of my bookmarks disappear even though it still shows up in the bookmark manager (and no, it's not a scrolling issue). They reappear upon closing and restarting Firefox.

- often, if it's still loading pages in other tabs, it fails when you try to bookmark the current tab.

-if you're in a window opened by a javascript script that doesn't have a tab bar, it will let you CTRL-click to open links in new tabs, but they will be in the background and you can't get to them or you can't get back to the tab you started with. When you close the window, it will tell you you have several tabs open, but there's no way to see those pages.

- password manager doesn't work if site demands password then username instead of username then password (I reported this to Bugzilla already and has been confirmed as a bug).

- password manager doesn't fill in fields until the page has fully loaded, which can be forever on a dial-up. There may be legitimate security reasons, but PM just doesn't seem as good as in IE.

- the search function. Aside from its annoying placement at the bottom of the screen (not obvious when it pops up; terrible ergonomics since it is as far as possible from top menus), there again I find it often won't open if I'm in one tab and content is still loading in other tabs.

- print preview gives you the same number of total pages, even as you change the sizing. So you have four pages and you're looking at page 1 of 4. Then you shrink the text tiny so you only have one page. Now you're still looking at page 1 of 4. But there are no other pages.

So there it is... the most annoying browser ever?

Tom

 

vkaryl

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 9:57 pm on Dec 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

My gosh, Tom - you ARE having problems.... do you know, not one of the things you list has ever occurred to me with FF? Not one of them....

It just hates you I guess.... much as Opera just hates me.

kaled

WebmasterWorld Senior Member kaled us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 10:00 pm on Dec 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

The find feature (at bottom) is useful if you are searching lots of pages for the same word. It would be nice though if it automatically cleared the red when changing pages.

Not sure why you have pdf problems - on my setup, pdf files are simply downloaded, I then fire up acrobat (YUCK!).

Kaled.

mrnoisy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 12:44 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I always right-click and save pdf's to a file rather than opening them in the browser because of this very issue.

If you right-click on a bookmark then all the bookmarks in that folder will disappear until you restart Firefox. I must stop doing that...

encyclo

WebmasterWorld Senior Member encyclo us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 1:09 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

To paraphrase the tagline from the best email client around [mutt.org]: All browsers suck. This one just sucks less.

The problem you have with PDFs my be something to do with your plugin (try getting the latest version if you don't have it already), and it is certainly a lot to do with the fact that you're on dialup. Better to right-click on the link and download it to view offline. I've got no problems whotsoever with copy/paste, and that's in Linux which is supposedly not as good as Windows in this respect. I've never lost bookmark folders either.

There are a few silly bugs in Firefox which should be addressed in later versions, but it is not a supreme virus and trojan downloading machine like IE, and it is not either ad-filled or costly like Opera. Firefox sucks, yes, like all programs and operating systems out there, but it is still the best general-purpose browser around for the moment.

ergophobe

WebmasterWorld Administrator ergophobe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 1:47 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)


I always right-click and save pdf's

Here too, but here's another thing about Firefox that I forgot to mention in my tirade. The status bar is always getting hung up and saying "Connecting to..." some site for which I've long ago closed the tab. In fact, I have the impression that often when you close a Firefox tab it goes merrily along loading said page.

Anyway, the consequence of that is that I often can't see the URL in the status bar and therefore don't know that I'm clicking on a PDF. Of course, I strongly believe that it should not be necessary to watch the status bar that vigilantly just to surf casually.

Yes, the plug in-is undoubtedly partly to blame. Acrobat Reader has become incredibly bloated over the years and the latest versions take forever to load, forever to search, and are no doubt causing many of the problems. I've thought of going back to AR5 or even 4. However, IE and Opera seem to handle the same Acrobat plug-in much more gracefully without constantly choking.

Firefox continues to try my patience.

outrun

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 2:20 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Im in the same boat as vkaryl seems firefox hates you as much as opera hates me.

I havent had problems with the adobe plugin.

I think the tab problem of opening page and it still loads even after you close the tab is a known problem.

With opening a new tab with "javascript script that doesn't have a tab bar" does ctrl + tab switch you to the other tabs? or just press ctrl + w to the problem tab to close the tab. Not sure if it will work but its worth a shot.

regards,
Mark.

Purple Martin

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 3:14 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you right-click on a bookmark then all the bookmarks in that folder will disappear until you restart Firefox. I must stop doing that...

Thankfully that never happens to me. (v1.0)

bill

WebmasterWorld Administrator bill us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 4:40 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

On one of my FF installs I cannot get extensions to uninstall. Short of going in and editing a config file in a text editor I simply cannot get that machine to work nicely with FF. It's a nightmare. I've uninstalled, re-installed, deleted directories, you name it...Once installed an extension will remain forever on that machine. <argh>

Tabbed browsing seems so awkward compared to Opera for me. I've tried all the various extensions, but it just doesn't seem to be as good.

kaled

WebmasterWorld Senior Member kaled us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 10:46 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I never use tabbed browsing in FF. I do tend to use tabs in Opera, but as a concept, I consider it to be highly overrated.

Kaled.

PCInk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 11:19 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I often find the same thing is true of CTR-T to open another tab...multiple times before the tab opens.

Same with Netscape 7 - based on Mozilla again. It seems that keyboard shortcuts do not work until the page has begun to load. Once a page is partly visible, pressing CTRL-T is no problem for me, but before the page is visible pressing has no effect at all.

tomda

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 11:38 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)


All browsers suck. This one just sucks less.

I can also be very desappointed by browsers I use. The best example is the encoded data form (enctype='multipart/form-data) - one the most unstable thing in browsers - and I must admit Firefox is not bad.

In fact, Firefox and Mozilla are the one I use for my localfiles validation at W3C validator because :
- in IE SP2, files submitted are all encoded as txt files. No solution has been found yet?
- in Opera, when leaving the form blank or refreshing the page, it just hangs.

Mozilla still has the lead for me ;)
And Opera sucks IMO (hangs, misbehave with css) though their sidebars are nice.

brotherhood of LAN

WebmasterWorld Administrator brotherhood_of_lan us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 259 posted 11:46 am on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Firefox crashes fairly often on java heavy pages for me.

I like how IE6 when "crashing" would limit itself to the single instance of the browser, rather than shutting down all your browser windows...firefox does the latter.

henry0

WebmasterWorld Senior Member henry0 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 12:30 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

A few months ago I made myself a note "wait for 1.0 to be out"
Then recently "wait for bugs to be ironed"

Also still a few months ago
the reversed conversation took place here; everyone was so happy with pre-1.0

So what should we/I do?
Wait more or pay for Opera (I hate the ads)

Is that the yoyo effect?

HarryM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 4:16 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Why I don't use Firefox...

1) It resizes fonts specified in pixels.

2) It breaks standards when it can't cope. For example:

- if text is resized within a div so that it cannot be contained in that div, it overwrites the text in a following div

- if within a div <b> is specified for some text but is not closed with a </b> (due typo, etc.) it applies bold to the text in subsequent divs. It then turns it off when it encounters a </b>. For XHTML the sequence <div>...<b>...</div>...</b> is invalid. Other browsers very sensibly close the <b> when they encouter the </div> thereby limiting the error to the div in which it occurs.

3) It's dropdown bookmarks are shown unsorted and cannot be corrected (or at least I haven't found a way of doing it.) Accessing a specific bookmark takes an extra click compared with IE.

4) Contrary to the received wisdom, Firefox is actually a slow browser.

IE, Opera, and Mozilla all render a page within one OS cycle (into memory), but FF takes more than one cycle. OK, it's better than Netscape 6-7 which is slugged so that it emulates the speed of Win98 no matter what the real OS, but it's a backward step.

The effect is quite visible if a page uses javascript to create a dynamic effect.

PCInk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 4:24 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

It resizes fonts specified in pixels.

It should. All browsers should. Internet Explorer has it wrong. The number of pixels you specify are correct at 100% view, but should alter if the user chooses a larger or smaller size.

Contrary to the received wisdom, Firefox is actually a slow browser...it's better than Netscape 6-7

They are based on the same technology and I don't believe that FF is faster than Netscape. In fact, I have tried both extensively and I can hardly find any difference between FF and NN7 (not just the speed, but menu options, almost everything). It is true that it is slower than Opera or IE, though.

HarryM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 4:38 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

It should.

A personal opinion. Mine is it shouldn't. :)

This problem of resizing or not resizing text would disappear if browsers implemented a proper zoom feature such as Opera has. Currently if you want some text to remain proportionate to its surroundings the only safe way is to use an image, which is to my mind a backward step.

You may be right about FF and NN being at the same speed. Some time ago I measured NN, but my assessment of FF was purely visual.

ergophobe

WebmasterWorld Administrator ergophobe us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 6:33 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)


I never use tabbed browsing in FF. I do tend to use tabs in Opera, but as a concept, I consider it to be highly overrated.

I can't stand to browse without CTRL-click to open windows in the background and keep my placeholder page. I tend to read down a page and CTRL-click branching links so that they open but without me losing my place.


Firefox crashes fairly often on java heavy pages for me.

Just happened to me a few minutes ago with 10 tabs open. Had to do my Google search over and start again.


3) It's dropdown bookmarks are shown unsorted and cannot be corrected (or at least I haven't found a way of doing it.) Accessing a specific bookmark takes an extra click compared with IE.

It is annoying, but there are extensions that help and allow
- "Add bookmark here" (so you navigate to the folder and click that - two clicks to add a mark anywhere in your bookmarks structure).
- Sort bookmarks extension that still leaves a lot to be desired.


It is true that it is slower than Opera or IE, though.

Contrary to what you hear over and over again, I have to say that is my experience as well.

I expected my thread title would bring out all sorts of vehement denials. I'm pretty surprised with the way this thread has gone. Of course, typical WebmasterWorld, what might have been an "is so - is not" thread on many forums, has been real interesting here.

Tom

brotherhood of LAN

WebmasterWorld Administrator brotherhood_of_lan us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 259 posted 9:45 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

>Just happened to me a few minutes ago with 10 tabs open. Had to do my Google search over and start again.

Not just the tabs either. IF i can slip in a link (search for ADVFN), a couple of clicks in and I'll crash...not just the tabs, any other instance of firefox that is open.

one other thing...it seems to take up a healthy chunk of memory.

Otherwise I'm happy with it.

I see joe surfer recommends FF a lot nowadays. I'm not one to disagree with them.

jatar_k

WebmasterWorld Administrator jatar_k us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 9:55 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have to admit I laughed a lot at your title erg ;)

I don't use it, I use Moz. All of our developers use either IE or Moz. For me personally I love all the tools in ff but just can't get it to be a smooth transition for me. I hate using it.

We have 20 regular users in our office and due to many concerns switched them all to FF, they love it, not one complaint. So I have to disagree with it being anything but great for regular users. We have a bunch of them loving thunderbird too, which I also dislike. I have to say, anything that can stem the flow of spy/parasite ware onto end user cpu's is a blessing. Most of the other concerns raised.

>> heavy java

lol, that is the nature of that particular beast, java crashes eveything 'cept my sun servers, funny that

larryhatch

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 10:14 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hello:

I'm on an old system, so this may not apply to others.

I use FF 1.0 along with Thunderclunk for email.
I like FF a lot, but don't use Tabbed Browsing.

Problem here seems to be resources (cache memory etc.)

They both start off fine, but get slower and slower..
in fact dismally slow the longer the session. This
is especially so if I'm opening and closing either or
both.

At times, the system will just come to a halt while the hard drive grinds and moans,
moving stuff around apparently. I can sit for up to a minute or more waiting to do the next thing.

Does anyone know how to see resources (memory) utilization on the fly, in Windows-95?
That might help explain things.

If I reboot from scratch, things speed back up again if only for a little while. - Larry

PCInk

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 10:23 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

3) It's dropdown bookmarks are shown unsorted and cannot be corrected (or at least I haven't found a way of doing it.) Accessing a specific bookmark takes an extra click compared with IE.

It's bookmarks are MUCH better than IE. IE is in alphabetical order only.

FF has drag and drop to move the bookmarks. You can even add diving lines.

Netscape has the same features as FF but you can also sort a folder by name, URL and many other option.

It doesn't take an extra click in FF compared to IE. You need to put your favourites into "Bookmarks>Personal Toolbar Folder", then right click the toolbar and "Show Bookmarks Toolbar" - all your bookmarks should now be at the top of the page at all times.

vkaryl

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 10:34 pm on Dec 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

You can also do a lot of "putting the bookmarks where you want them" all at one time through "Manage Bookmarks" (in FF, I mean....)

HarryM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 12:36 am on Dec 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

IE is in alphabetical order only

You can't really have tried. The default order in IE is alphabetical, but you can also drag and drop bookmarks where you want in the dropdown menu.

With 'organise favourites' you can create subfolders, sub-subfolders, move things around, etc., which can be a little tedious, but you can also use Windows Explorer to do the same things directly in the favourites folder, which is a lot quicker.

The big advantage of IE's favourites is they are instantly available as a drop down, mousing over a folder opens subfolders, and you can find the link you want, or rename it, or delete it, without having to click on anything.

createErrorMsg

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 2:53 am on Dec 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

if within a div <b> is specified for some text but is not closed with a </b> (due typo, etc.) it applies bold to the text in subsequent divs. It then turns it off when it encounters a </b>. For XHTML the sequence <div>...<b>...</div>...</b> is invalid. Other browsers very sensibly close the <b> when they encouter the </div> thereby limiting the error to the div in which it occurs.

This is not FFs fault. The designer in this case has asked the browser not to end the bold text until halfway through the next div. You really can't hold it against a browser when it gives you exactly what you ask for.

The strength of Firefox lies in the fact that it correctly interprets and implements standards. When browsers start trying to correct designer mistakes you end up with IE\Win, the root cause of 98% of CSS hacks.

What the designer in this case needs is not a better browser, but access to the W3C HTML Validator [validator.w3.org] to ensure those mistakes are fixed before putting the page live.

That said, FF does kind of suck. I experience regular bouts where the browser locks up on "Looking for host XYZ". It'll just sit there spinning it's wheels for a full minute or two. It used to do this only when accessing pages on my "localhost." It's now moved on to doing this periodically when I surf.

cEM

bedlam

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 3:55 am on Dec 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

The big advantage of IE's favourites is they are instantly available as a drop down, mousing over a folder opens subfolders, and you can find the link you want, or rename it, or delete it, without having to click on anything.

I can't understand this; if you just mean accessing bookmarks by the 'Bookmarks' (Firefox)/'Favorites' (MSIE) link in the toolbar, then your description describes both experiences exactly.

In Firefox or IE, when I click the link, I get a big dropdown list of bookmarks/favorites. If I mouse over a folder icon in either list, the folder shows its contents in a flyout to one side. If, at any time, I right-click on bookmark or folder, I am offered the 'properties' option; clicking this allows me to edit the item. The option to delete folder or favorite is always available on right-click.

What did you mean?

-B

Hester

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 11:09 am on Dec 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

It resizes fonts specified in pixels.

Sigh. People have complained for years because IE/Win doesn't do this. (Even IE/Mac could resize pixel fonts.) Now Firefox does it and you say it's a bad thing?

The logic is obvious, surely. I'd like to hear why you think otherwise. Imagine anyone with poor sight, trying to read small fonts set in pixels on a site. In IE, they are stuck - they cannot up the text size. In all other main browsers, they can, and quite easily. (In Opera, you just press + on the number pad.) So then the person can read the text easily. What can possibly be wrong with that?

Or to put it another way, why would it be right to stop them resizing the text? I don't get it.

Besides, all other font types can be resized, such as ems and percentages. So why should pixels be left out? Because of some stupid decision by Microsoft, that's the only reason.

Unless you are wishing to retain the layout? Sorry, the web is a dynamic medium, not fixed like a printed page. Browsers like Opera allow us to change a page completely - alter the colours, images on or off, styles on or off etc. So why not font size? (I agree Opera's Zoom is the best solution, but just resizing the text is the next best thing, regardless of whether it ruins a 'perfect' layout or not. Text simply must be readable for all people, else the web has failed.)

HarryM

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 1:46 pm on Dec 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

You really can't hold it against a browser when it gives you exactly what you ask for.

In the example I gave, I was making the point that FF itself broke standards. The page called for <div> ... <b> ... </div><div> ... <b> ... </b> ... </div> which is incorrect. But FF compounds the error by allowing the bold instruction to cross into the next div, which is against the standards. I wasn't suggesting FF should correct the error.

I can't understand this; if you just mean accessing bookmarks by the 'Bookmarks' (Firefox)/'Favorites' (MSIE) link in the toolbar, then your description describes both experiences exactly

Except that in FF's dropdown the links are in a higgledy-piggledy mess.

People have complained for years because IE/Win doesn't do this.

Not all of us. My point is that by resizing all fonts, it encourages the use of images instead of text.

For example on one of my sites I have a header div with a background image on which is superimposed a four-word 30px description between <h1> tags. It meets usability standards. But FF can resize this txt so that it wraps, but FF doesn't resize the div, but lets the text spill out into the following div. If it was a commercial site I would be forced to make this title into a gif.

The problem with FF is it's a half-smart browser. It takes a lot more effort to create a browser with the flexibility and usability of IE than it does to create a purely 'standards-compliant' browser. It's the soft option.

Hester

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 2:34 pm on Dec 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

My point is that by resizing all fonts, it encourages the use of images instead of text.

For example on one of my sites I have a header div... But FF can resize this txt so that it wraps, but FF doesn't resize the div, but lets the text spill out into the following div. If it was a commercial site I would be forced to make this title into a gif.


But poor-sighted people shouldn't be made to suffer because of this. For a start, the amount of text they have to read on a typical site far outweighs text used for banners (that you wish not to be resized). It's a good point you make - but I would argue that using a gif would still be accessible, providing you added the ALT text (and possibly TITLE text too). If the user can't read the text in the gif, well they should download Opera, or set a user stylesheet up in IE to enlarge images using the zoom filter.

The problem with FF is it's a half-smart browser. It takes a lot more effort to create a browser with the flexibility and usability of IE than it does to create a purely 'standards-compliant' browser. It's the soft option.

LOL! Nothing is soft and easy about following the standards! Microsoft have been negligent in coding what they want from the standards, leaving tags like <abbr> in the cold. Firefox (and Opera) have taken up the reins by coding as much as possible, so the designer can use all the great things HTML and CSS have to offer. When you look at the bugs still remaining, the W3C specs, test cases etc, you realise how massively complex it all is to follow the standards correctly. (Often Firefox will do something one way, Opera another. People have to really study the results to work out which is following the standards or not. But at least they're trying.)

Of course Firefox isn't just a standards-compliant browser. (And if a browser isn't standards-compliant, what use is it really?) Firefox and Opera also cater for badly-written code, as you've shown earlier, manually correcting mistakes in order to display a page as best they can. If IE had been standards-compliant from the early days, a lot more pages would be too. It has allowed designers to get away with awful code. IE is also full of some truly ghastly layout bugs. Firefox is not.

And what is this "flexibility and usability of IE" you speak of? I see infinitely more flexibility in Firefox, with its extensions, fuller code support, a wide range of features simply missing completely from IE... it is also constantly being improved, so by the time we hit version 2.0 it will be truly amazing. Meanwhile Microsoft have locked IE in the cupboard for several years without improvements or new features, bar the pop-up blocker Mozilla has had for years. I doubt very much indeed Longhorn will provide us with a Firefox-beating IE7, I just can't see it myself.

Anyone still defending and using IE is on a sinking ship. Switch to Opera or Firefox or Safari, et al, as soon as possible. Then we can get on with designing better pages (that use things like generated content and PNG graphics IE cannot handle). I'm not saying the new browsers are perfect - they don't have IE's amazing filters for instance - but with IE there's just too much risk from spyware and hackers hell bent on breaking it right now.

The only cause to remain an IE user is for applications and intranets that depend on it. Or the user is simply unaware of alternatives. Or they wish to live in the past for some strange reason, like those people still using Netscape 4. Or they just can't bear losing the familiar menus and icons. Well, all I can say is wait until the next IE-only virus comes round. Is it worth it just for the comfort of using such an outdated browser?

mincklerstraat

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 259 posted 2:51 pm on Dec 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've been tickled pink with ff so far, though there have been minor annoyances. If I had to give it up for another browser I'd be a very, very unhappy camper indeed. It sucks minimally in my experience, but I have plenty of resources to throw around so am not in much of a position to comment on stability.

larryhatch, have you considered at all installing some sort of small-sized, lean-and-mean linux on your box like deli linux? That might help you speed-wise, win95 is kinda old.

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