homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.166.173.147
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Pubcon Platinum Sponsor 2014
Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Browsers / Opera Browser Usage and Support
Forum Library, Charter, Moderator: open

Opera Browser Usage and Support Forum

This 117 message thread spans 4 pages: < < 117 ( 1 2 [3] 4 > >     
Opera 7.5 now available
photon




msg:1585327
 2:06 pm on May 12, 2004 (gmt 0)

7.5 final is now out of beta.

 

isitreal




msg:1585387
 5:00 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's your choice at the end of the day. People wanting a simple browser will choose Firefox. (It looks like IE6 so will be a natural replacement for many.) People wanting an advanced browser capable of some remarkable things, and very fast, with a small download, with a great support forum and regular new versions, will choose Opera.

All browsers have bugs, all of them have features that others don't, all of them manage to find a niche for themselves if reasonably well done. Opera 7 is the best opera yet, it's small, it's lightweight, and now that I can get rid of most of the advertising, great... Firefox isn't a simple browser that looks like IE, it's another pretty slick choice out there, which offers a range of options, including having all of its source code available to any developer who wants to work on it. For example, Mozilla was/is the first browser I know of that will actually run mimetype xml.

However, Opera 7.5 does in fact have a very large display error which eventually somebody is going to spot if they start running complex enough css, and I'm going to have to implement, again, a browser version specific fix to get that working, something I'm getting pretty sick of doing when my HTML and CSS are both error free, and have been for a long time.

Making an advanced CSS rendering engine is obviously extremely difficult, or there would have been a bug free one by now, and obviously when the initial rendering engine architecture decisions are made, certain features are made possible, and others are made problematic, then when fixes are put into place, something else breaks. I've seen this now on IE 5.5 to 6, Firebird 0.7 to firefox 0.8, and Opera 7.2 to 7.5, where certain advanced CSS features that worked perfectly in the older version broke in the newer one.

photon




msg:1585388
 5:19 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Just found this. Open 2 or more tabs, then press CTRL + TAB. A vertical version of Windows' ALT + TAB!

CTRL + TAB is cool, but I mostly use the 1 (next tab on the left) and the 2 (next tab on the right).

I find the right click + scroll wheel works well for me.

Clark




msg:1585389
 5:21 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

I love Opera but for the CSS debate I think css is broken. As quickly as I learned HTML is as slowly as I've been able to pick up CSS. No wonder browsers have trouble.

HTML needs to be extended. Development just stopped happening one day when IE beat Netscape. How about new tags?

Opera lets you click a link to open in a background window. How about a tag so a developer can say "href=url.com target=_background". How about combo drop down boxes in forms? Maybe Opera and Moz would start to pick up more steam if they offered support for unofficial tags the way Netscape and Microsoft did when the Internet was new?

Anyways, I digress. I don't know if it's css or not, but there is some drop down navigation that doesn't work properly on Opera when you have a google ad in the way (due to iframe?). It works fine on IE.

ronin




msg:1585390
 5:32 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

I amazed that you people do so many things with browsers!

All I ever do is press back(history), forward(history), refresh, home, bookmarks and view source.

I don't even understand yet why everyone (still) raves about tabbed browsing... (I've got a selection of programs running along the bar at the bottom of windoze - I can see when I've got more than one webpage open, I don't need tabs to show me... what's the big deal?)

photon




msg:1585391
 5:40 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well, it cuts down on the number of buttons on your taskbar, plus you can limit certain actions to just Opera. For example (if you're like me), you can CTRL+TAB through just your browser windows without seeing the other 15 programs that are also running. And ALT-TAB through the 15 programs without having to see the twenty web pages I have open. Or maximize/minimize/cascade/tile just the Opera tabs.

It's not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things (it's low on my list of reasons to switch). But if it's something you like, you'll like it. :)

[edited by: photon at 5:42 pm (utc) on May 14, 2004]

isitreal




msg:1585392
 5:41 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

tabbed browsing is addicting, an example: do a search, keep search engine results in one tab, all new pages open in new tabs, mousegesture closes tab, returns you to previous tab, in this case search page, enables you to keep open multiple searches, this is especially useful when doing technical searches where you want to keep many solutions open and available. Tab navigation can be set to switch on mouseover, so you don't even have to click on the tab to switch pages, though that tends to get annoying.

Mouseup, new tab, control + k, in search bar, type in search term, opens on page, etc... I usually have between 3 and 10 tabs open, all of which I am using at once, it's pretty convenient once you configure the tab settings to suite your preferences.

Options like return to previously viewed tab when closing a tab make a big difference on long complicated searches.

To me tabbed browsing and mousegestures, whether the mozilla, safari, or Opera flavors, make browsing with IE feel like you're using netscape 4, every time I use IE I always try to move back a page by mousegesture before I remember I'm on IE, though you can download software to make IE have some of these features, that's an extra layer ontop of it though.

I amazed that you people do so many things with browsers!

that might have something to do with working with the internet for a living, since the browser is the main GUI interface we have to do that work, so you tend to get into how it performs and its features, even to the degree where you'll get passionate about your particular gui interface to the www, an emotion almost no normal user will ever experience.

miragee




msg:1585393
 6:39 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

I wanted to agree that tabbed browsing is addictive, and it makes browsing so much more efficient if you happen to have a very slow (24K) dialup connection as I do.

I can open page after page after page in the background while I am doing something else.

Opera completely changed my browsing experience after having been a Netscape user since 1995.

Now the features it offers, in one package (nothing else to download, ie. extensions), are things I simply cannot live without.

When I use a computer at a library and have to use IE, I have to actually look for the Back button since I'm so used to using Mouse Gestures, or my customized Right Click Menu.

RammsteinNicCage




msg:1585394
 6:42 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hester,
Yup, I realized how to make the ad look the same as in Opera 7.23 from dwhite's post, but unfortunately I can't have the address bar and the status bar to the left of it, so I'll keep it how it is now and learn to live with it. :)
And thanks for the heads up on the bookmark nicknames, that can certainly be very useful.

My two favorite things about Opera that have really cut down on time I've spent typing and dragging the mouse up to the menu are the mouse gestures and the "g keyword" things (what are those called?). The keyword thing has definitely saved me a lot of time... instead of going to imdb.com and waiting for it to load, then typing in something, then hit submit, then waiting for that page to load, I can just type in "imdb Nicolas Cage" and I'm set (hey, I don't want to wait that long to hear about what Nic's been up to :p).

Oh, another great feature is Window -> Closed. I don't know how many times I close the wrong window on accident or I decide that I didn't get enough info from a site and have to go back to it. Very useful, especially when it's a site that I don't regularly go to and remember the url.

Jennifer

photon




msg:1585395
 6:43 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WebmasterWorld, miragee!

Oh, another great feature is Window -> Closed

Ever close a browser window accidentally and couldn't remember the URL? CTRL+ALT+Z will reopen it in Opera. Or you can go to the menu Jennifer mentioned and see the last ten windows you closed.

<edited to add>
Wow, apparently it will show you more than ten. Wonder what the limit is?
</edit>

RammsteinNicCage




msg:1585396
 7:25 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've had it show more than two full panels before. I should close my browser more often.

Jennifer

Clark




msg:1585397
 7:25 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

>css striping

Try G and shift G and Control-G - then figure out what that does (total control of page graphics and css - run **** number of custom CSS files if you wish. Sure slices through the garabage).

That is very cool. It took me awhile to find the G button, but once I did it brought me a lot of pleasure. Nice for email because you can quickly turn off images so the spammers don't validate your email account.

TheWhippinpost




msg:1585398
 8:49 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm not dissin Opera (It's not me default but I acknowledge it's strengths), but MyIE2 has had a lot of Opera's features built-in for some time.

I find it a bit uncanny at times to see Opera releasin a new build and learnin that it's dropped in a new feature or two that MyIE2 implemented just a few builds earlier.

I'm not suggestin it's all one way; the minority browsers do tend to chase each other in certain respects and My IE2 is amongst them But as it's a free browser built on the IE engine, I find it all the more surprising, especially given that MyIE2 has seemingly been ahead of the feature-game of late.

Of course, MyIE2 doesn't have the compliancy benefit but that's it AFAIC.

richlowe




msg:1585399
 9:14 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

I like this opera version. It's clean, fast and seems to work well.

The mail option sucks. completely sucks. In comparison with outlook and outlook express (just the email function), primitive and barren of features.

Clark




msg:1585400
 9:36 pm on May 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

The one thing I don't like that ie has and opera doesn't is when I'm in yahoo mail and start typing in the TO: window, previous entries show up automatically. Opera does have one form where you can pre fill out certain things like name and address, but I like IE's implementation MUCH more. I find myself using this version more, but that one thing may keep me an i.e. user. Still waiting for Opera to get the last details right.

mattglet




msg:1585401
 4:19 pm on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have a question about Opera (Just downloaded 7.5)...

Every page I go to, has messed up fonts. I'm using Auther Mode for style sheeting, so shouldn't Opera pull the font from the site's stylesheet, and use Verdana, Arial, etc for the font? I've got some crazy thin, cramped default font it's showing me. I had to go back to IE just to post this message, because I can barely read the text in Opera.

It's probably something simple, but I'm missing it.

If you need a screenshot, sticky me.

-Matt

troels nybo nielsen




msg:1585402
 4:28 pm on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

Ctrl + will make everything larger in Opera. And you should be aware that IE and Opera under some circumstances interpret text size differently in CSS.

mattglet




msg:1585403
 4:41 pm on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

With respect, that's not what I'm looking for.

The actual font on the page is not Verdana, Arial, or whatever else the author chose it to be. I have the zoom at 100%, and the font is whacked.

For a screen shot, use my profile site "/opera.gif"

-Matt

RammsteinNicCage




msg:1585404
 6:59 pm on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

I did a search on the Opera forums and I didn't find anything specifically relating to 7.5, but I did find some general font problems. One of them had to do with another program, like a font manager (Adobe TypeManager?) that conflicts with Opera. Do you have anything like that installed?

Jennifer

mattglet




msg:1585405
 11:00 pm on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

Unfortuneately, no...

The other weird thing was that when I installed it, it didn't put a styles/user.css file in my Opera directory. Not sure if that has to do with anything.

-Matt

Brett_Tabke




msg:1585406
 11:10 pm on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

Looks to me like you have messed with the default fonts in Opera or the modes. (easy to do).

Goto prefs ->page style...play.

mattglet




msg:1585407
 11:19 pm on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

To be honest, that was how it came. I didn't touch anything....

-Matt

mattglet




msg:1585408
 11:22 pm on May 15, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'd really hate to create my own CSS, I'd like to view the sites as the author intended. I'll try to uninstall, reinstall, but I doubt it will accomplish anything.

-Matt

photon




msg:1585409
 12:54 am on May 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

Matt--

Check Tools --> Preferences --> Page style --> Configure mode..., and make sure that the first two--and only the first two--boxes are checked under "Author mode". I overlooked that "Configure" button the first few times I was fooling with things. If that's not it, the only other thing I can suggest is a clean install.

And just "+" (no CTRL required) on the keypad will enlarge the page. Not surprisingly, "-" with reduce it. But the piece de resistance in my opinion is "*"--it will return you to 100% instantly, no guessing involved.

mattglet




msg:1585410
 2:37 am on May 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well, I may have found the answer. I went to Opera's IRC channel, and chatted with a developer. A question was asked to me about possibly not having the correct fonts... I replied that I have more than 2500 fonts on my computer, so I doubt that I'm missing any. The following conversation then occurred between me and the developer (Dev):

Dev: "there is a known bug with that many fonts"

Matt: "do you have an idea of how many is "too many""

Dev: "1024.. the bug is really silly.. because of how opera core rendering engine is made to use as little memory etc on mobile devices it use various packed bit structures to save space, and some guy thought 10 bits would be enough to specify the font number.. which amounts to max 1024 fonts.. "

Me: "so... if this is a known bug, is there a reason why it wasn't addressed in v7.5? too much of a pain to fix?"

Dev: "yes.. I looked into the bug just the day before release actually and we didn't dare to touch the packed bit structures to fix it because of fear of overlooked regressions.."

So, I'm about to go sift through my fonts, and try not to remove any important ones. I'll report back with progress.

Thanks for everyone's replies.

-Matt

mattglet




msg:1585411
 4:30 am on May 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

So it was true... I was struck by the "too many fonts" bug in Opera. I cleaned house on my Fonts folder, and everything is now good to go.

-Matt

RonPK




msg:1585412
 12:21 pm on May 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

photon:
what would it take for WebmasterWorld to support Opera "next" functionality: e.g., using the space bar to page down AND go to the next page in a thread?

IMHO: not much ;). All it takes is a link to the next page with anchor text 'next'. See how it already works on the forum index pages, on Google SER pages, and probably many others.

Another way to achieve that would be to use the HTML link element, like:
<link rel="next" href="next_page_here.html">
<link rel="prev" href="previous_page_here.html">

photon




msg:1585413
 4:09 pm on May 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

RonPK--

I know it's fairly simple. I was just trying to nudge outspoken Opera fan Brett into implementing it. :)

Of course with a site this size, I'm sure there are added complications to consider.

Hester




msg:1585414
 9:15 am on May 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Clark:
I love Opera but for the CSS debate I think css is broken.

What do you mean? Opera's CSS handling is broken? Or the W3C specs?

Clark:
HTML needs to be extended. Development just stopped happening one day when IE beat Netscape. How about new tags?

HTML is dead. Sorry to break the news. There will be no new tags. Instead, you can use XHTML. It allows you (with a unique doctype) to add new tags. (It's HTML repackaged as valid XML.)

Clark:
Maybe Opera and Moz would start to pick up more steam if they offered support for unofficial tags the way Netscape and Microsoft did when the Internet was new?

Why should they? Unofficial means different tags for each browser. What a mess! However, Opera does cater for some unofficial tags (for backwards compatibility) such as <marquee> and <blink>.

richlowe:
The mail option sucks. completely sucks. In comparison with outlook and outlook express (just the email function), primitive and barren of features.

I think you'll find that is far from true. Speak to anyone who has used it for a while. They are full of praise. It has a great many features, some of which leave the competition standing.

Did I mention the built-in RSS newsreader?

RonPK




msg:1585415
 12:47 pm on May 17, 2004 (gmt 0)

Did I mention the built-in RSS newsreader

Very nice indeed. Unfortunately it does not support the Atom format, which some publishers [webmasterworld.com] prefer. I read in opera.general that Opera does not plan to integrate Atom support until its development has settled down.

danny




msg:1585416
 3:04 am on May 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've downloaded it and had a play, and it's pretty nice. There are two reasons I won't be switching from Mozilla though. The first is that I prefer to support - even if only with bug reports and testing - a free software project over a proprietary one. The second is that Opera on Linux (Fedora Core 1) doesn't have anti-aliased fonts - I've got so used to those with Mozilla it's hard to go backwards.

Hester




msg:1585417
 9:33 am on May 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

I prefer to support - even if only with bug reports and testing - a free software project too. It's called Opera. Users have enjoyed testing six preview versions and one beta before the final release of 7.50. Opera too have a bug-reporting system, though sadly it is not available publicly.

A few more tips: Use S and W to move between headers on a page!

Use SHIFT + F2 and start typing the keyword for a bookmark. As soon as Opera recognises one that's unique, it'll take you straight to the page - no need to type any more.

For instance, let's say you have three bookmarks given keywords "andy", "anna" and "aneka". Type in "an" and nothing will happen. But type the next letter and the relevant site from the list will jump into view. So typing "and" will go to the "andy" bookmark, "ann" will go to the "anna" one, while "ane" will go to "aneka". (Assuming you've given these keywords to the bookmarks in the first place of course!)

Try it - it's fast.

This 117 message thread spans 4 pages: < < 117 ( 1 2 [3] 4 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Browsers / Opera Browser Usage and Support
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved